DiabloFans

Cool stuffs...cool stuffs

Wow I had no idea Europe had been shut out of the beta this long

No key for me or my gf

FINALLY. now some of the ppl in Europe can s-t-f-u about none of them being able to get into the beta and how being in NA is such BS and we get an unfair advantage bla bla bla QQQQQ. no offense but thats all ive been seeing ever since the 100k invites went out. <_< so we can all get happyyyy. *sign of release*

wow.. will latinamerica ever get some betakeys? sigh.. so annoying

I have been very less than impressed with some of Bashiok's responses to questions about the rune changes of recent, and that one just exemplifies my reasoning. The guy raises a great point, and one I share sentiment with. His response just side steps the problem raised, and doesn't really have enough weight to stand on it's own. There are not billions of possible combinations. Not all of the runes modify the skills that much or to a point varying gameplay enough to consider it completely different. Some builds will also just not seem viable to do. Most people that are concerned with these changes are hardcore and avid players, and therefore the blue responses to questions being raised are aimed at those players. A well informed player won't disrupt synergies and pair things together putting them at an obvious disadvantage for the sake of "diversity" and a "new gameplay experience." It will effectively do the same thing as WoW and make people feel trapped to play a specific build, even if it has looser restrictions. Although Blizz may not be enamored with the responsibilities for choices route, there aren't much alternative options for longevity other than replaying the game, different builds and skills. That's how D2 has stayed around so long (neglecting all aspects of D2 that were great that also happen to be in D3; ex item hunt). The unlocks follow the same path so there is no incentive for replay-ability. And even at level 60 if you decide to change things up a bit and switch your build what will you be doing? Just hunting for gear, doing the same exact thing, differently. The argument could be made that forcing to re-level a character is the same thing but at least there is a sense of progression while doing that.

Awesome news for you EU followers! :Thumbs Up:


Not sure if sarcastic or Chuck Testa...

Quote from sionofdarkness

I have been very less than impressed with some of Bashiok's responses to questions about the rune changes of recent, and that one just exemplifies my reasoning. The guy raises a great point, and one I share sentiment with. His response just side steps the problem raised, and doesn't really have enough weight to stand on it's own. There are not billions of possible combinations. Not all of the runes modify the skills that much or to a point varying gameplay enough to consider it completely different. Some builds will also just not seem viable to do. Most people that are concerned with these changes are hardcore and avid players, and therefore the blue responses to questions being raised are aimed at those players. A well informed player won't disrupt synergies and pair things together putting them at an obvious disadvantage for the sake of "diversity" and a "new gameplay experience." It will effectively do the same thing as WoW and make people feel trapped to play a specific build, even if it has looser restrictions. Although Blizz may not be enamored with the responsibilities for choices route, there aren't much alternative options for longevity other than replaying the game, different builds and skills. That's how D2 has stayed around so long (neglecting all aspects of D2 that were great that also happen to be in D3; ex item hunt). The unlocks follow the same path so there is no incentive for replay-ability. And even at level 60 if you decide to change things up a bit and switch your build what will you be doing? Just hunting for gear, doing the same exact thing, differently. The argument could be made that forcing to re-level a character is the same thing but at least there is a sense of progression while doing that.

1. a sense of progression from forcing to re-lvl? you mean a sense of redundancy?

2. you obviously have not spent much time on the skill calc. i have spent hundreds of hours with it and i can say without a doubt there are at least hundreds of possible builds that are a lot different for each class. 100x more then D2 had. considering how much fun and time ive spent just on the skill calc alone, actually using these builds will make it last infinitely longer.

3. his response doesnt side step anything. he gives the exact response he should because its the truth.

4. gear has always been the main point of longevity in diablo, and then ppl complain when its the same thing in the sequal? lol?

5. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from replaying or recreating a character. D2 FORCED you to do this which was bogus and they finally added respecs a little bit ago which made it way better. people are brain washed into thinking the permanancy of D2 was a good thing when it added nothing but an inconvenience. why? because it took a whole 3 hours to get a new char from 1-80 to test out your new build n equip all the gear you farmed from your other guy. so again i say, it added nothing. all thats changed is now people have a choice to re-level a new char to test new builds or use the same one.

people complain hard about how D3 took away choices, took away the choice of skill points and the choice of attributes. then they rage hardcore about given a choice to re-lvl or not? lol....

I'm awed by the sepia artwork, before I even knew it was umpa's. Very interesting style, it gives the feel of an old woodcut.

OMG. I actually got a BETA KEY. DAMN, I have an assigment due on monday. SHEEET!

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

Quote from sionofdarkness

I have been very less than impressed with some of Bashiok's responses to questions about the rune changes of recent, and that one just exemplifies my reasoning. The guy raises a great point, and one I share sentiment with. His response just side steps the problem raised, and doesn't really have enough weight to stand on it's own. There are not billions of possible combinations. Not all of the runes modify the skills that much or to a point varying gameplay enough to consider it completely different. Some builds will also just not seem viable to do. Most people that are concerned with these changes are hardcore and avid players, and therefore the blue responses to questions being raised are aimed at those players. A well informed player won't disrupt synergies and pair things together putting them at an obvious disadvantage for the sake of "diversity" and a "new gameplay experience." It will effectively do the same thing as WoW and make people feel trapped to play a specific build, even if it has looser restrictions. Although Blizz may not be enamored with the responsibilities for choices route, there aren't much alternative options for longevity other than replaying the game, different builds and skills. That's how D2 has stayed around so long (neglecting all aspects of D2 that were great that also happen to be in D3; ex item hunt). The unlocks follow the same path so there is no incentive for replay-ability. And even at level 60 if you decide to change things up a bit and switch your build what will you be doing? Just hunting for gear, doing the same exact thing, differently. The argument could be made that forcing to re-level a character is the same thing but at least there is a sense of progression while doing that.

1. a sense of progression from forcing to re-lvl? you mean a sense of redundancy?

2. you obviously have not spent much time on the skill calc. i have spent hundreds of hours with it and i can say without a doubt there are at least hundreds of possible builds that are a lot different for each class. 100x more then D2 had. considering how much fun and time ive spent just on the skill calc alone, actually using these builds will make it last infinitely longer.

3. his response doesnt side step anything. he gives the exact response he should because its the truth.

4. gear has always been the main point of longevity in diablo, and then ppl complain when its the same thing in the sequal? lol?

5. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from replaying or recreating a character. D2 FORCED you to do this which was bogus and they finally added respecs a little bit ago which made it way better. people are brain washed into thinking the permanancy of D2 was a good thing when it added nothing but an inconvenience. why? because it took a whole 3 hours to get a new char from 1-80 to test out your new build n equip all the gear you farmed from your other guy. so again i say, it added nothing. all thats changed is now people have a choice to re-level a new char to test new builds or use the same one.

people complain hard about how D3 took away choices, took away the choice of skill points and the choice of attributes. then they rage hardcore about given a choice to re-lvl or not? lol....

^ this! Good response!

Didn't get any beta invite on neither of my accounts....

Ah well, there's always something else to do, right?

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

1. a sense of progression from forcing to re-lvl? you mean a sense of redundancy?

It would only be redundant if you level with the exact same build/skills as you had done so previously which is not at all what I was referring to. If they want to make the claim that new skill builds are like new play experiences, then I would say being consistent with that then NO, it would not have a sense of redundancy. And in that there would still be progression inherently from re-leveling. No one says you HAVE to re-level a new build (after having a max level class of one type of build), but it adds depth and replay-ability long term.

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

2. you obviously have not spent much time on the skill calc. i have spent hundreds of hours with it and i can say without a doubt there are at least hundreds of possible builds that are a lot different for each class. 100x more then D2 had. considering how much fun and time ive spent just on the skill calc alone, actually using these builds will make it last infinitely longer.

While I can see your point here, and it is a good one, its still speculation. You don't know how well any of those builds will really transfer over into the game at release. In relation to a point I was making before, there may be some more diverse and interesting ways to play, but that may give the player an inherent disadvantage or "not full maximization" depending on your point of view. They may also just not really be as much fun in practice as they are on paper. And again this point was in relation to hardcore and avid players, people who will be concerned with something like this. However again, I can see where you are coming from as I have done something similar (albeit to a much lesser extent) it's just still to be foreseen how it will actually translate.

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

3. his response doesnt side step anything. he gives the exact response he should because its the truth.

This is again where we disagree. He does sidestep the issue because he does not address the concerns the OP brings up, rather he offers his opinion on the consequences. He does not directly address or give a response to the OP and therefore nothing was really answered. I am still left wondering "how does this new system function long term?" If I am still left wondering anything, than to be fair, the blue post has not answered constructively enough.

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

4. gear has always been the main point of longevity in diablo, and then ppl complain when its the same thing in the sequal? lol?

The one thing I would appreciate is to not put words in my mouth. I never said that at all, the reason I've played D2 since release is I enjoy the item hunt. However its the variety of ways in which you approach it that makes D2 great. If it was really all about the item hunt can you say you'd have fun with only 1 class and many more items? No of course not, because some diversity will always be better and give you an opportunity to, as I said, do the same thing but differently. I know that they have some ways to do this with the current system, but I feel as though they could have (and almost did) go a much better route in doing it. Even without the locked in skill builds I thought it was ok because of the skill rune hunt, but that is removed too which re-raises some concerns for me.

Quote from GladHeHasBeta

5. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from replaying or recreating a character. D2 FORCED you to do this which was bogus and they finally added respecs a little bit ago which made it way better. people are brain washed into thinking the permanancy of D2 was a good thing when it added nothing but an inconvenience. why? because it took a whole 3 hours to get a new char from 1-80 to test out your new build n equip all the gear you farmed from your other guy. so again i say, it added nothing. all thats changed is now people have a choice to re-level a new char to test new builds or use the same one.

people complain hard about how D3 took away choices, took away the choice of skill points and the choice of attributes. then they rage hardcore about given a choice to re-lvl or not? lol....

Finally, I do agree with you somewhat there. Again I'll ask not to put words in my mouth because I was fine with the removal of attributes, granted I still would like to have seen skill points in because even incremental increases give a sense of progression and accomplishment. I've toyed with that notion many times, there is nothing stopping you from making a new character so why not just add self imposed restrictions, stick with a build and if you want another one then make a new character? But obviously I won't do that because I'll just respec. I'm not detracting at all from the convenience or positives it brings, but I think in the long term it harms the replay-ability and integrity of the game. There really isn't a reason to re-level a character of the same class anymore and because of that I doubt I will do so. I know I will be able to but I have no incentive to do so because I can change builds on a whim, and that saddens me. Again as a hardcore player myself most of this is catered to my opinion and needs, but as I've said before; "Inevitably all new players will become experienced players, experienced players will not revert back to being new players." With this mindset blizzard should be catering the majority of the game to experienced players (in my opinion). Experienced players will do some research on a build before committing to it fully, and probably wouldn't level all the way up to 80 if they don't anticipate liking the build. That was also all after many years of the game being out and no longer supported avidly, I suspect it will be a long time before having to deal with issues like that in D3.

I look forward to seeing your responses to the questions I have brought forth.

@sion of darkness

i had a big ass reply and then hit a button on accident and it got erased. so FML

ill just respond on the first 2 points.

1. it is completly redundant to re-lvl a class you already have just to experiment with a build you dont know will be good or not. do you think it was fun for the first people of D2 to re-level 50 characters of the same class testing builds that kept failing over n over n over just to come out with 1-2 cookie cutters that now everyone uses? of course not, even people who like to level dont want to re-lvl that many times per class to fail 95% of the time. theres nothing deep about that. even with rushes and runs that would make anyone want to slit their wrists.

2. since everything is now based on wpn dmg its not really speculation. it is but it isnt. ive made hundreds of different builds with the same dmg % output as others and some with less dmg but more utility or more dmg and less utility or defense ect ect. in D2 there were solid numbers you saw and knew the skill was useless compared to others and as you said didnt fully maximize their classes potential. but with this system you can make dozens of builds all with equally amazing potential. and then your gear modifies this more since gear will have +%dmg to skill 'X' or 'Y'. even making less practical skills seem on par with the higher ones.

More keys???

But the game is already gold (in print).

Announce a date, put up a starter edition (demo) on b.net to reboot the awareness and momentum to release and cut the crap Blizzard!

Quote from madmaxII

I didnt get a key. Why am I not suprised -.-

Believe me the beta is a double-edge sword, it's fun the first run of each class, then you max them out and complete the achievements because Blizzard didn't even made the effort to put epic loot in just to keep things interesting. So you realise this ain't a beta of D3 but Battle.net running a demo. In the end you are left with nothing worth doing ingame beside the last 20 minutes for a yellow drop. All the beta does is wanting to play the full game because the damn game is so good. At least it should be release soon, you'll get to enjoy it.

I'm just wondering, but does anyone know when the downtimes will be happening during the week? Such as a day and time?

I'm not sure how the downtime with wow and sc2 are so I can't really go on anything here.

I don't know about SC2 but as for WoW, the maintenance window is done on Tuesday, typically from 3am PST to 11am PST.

Speaking of downtime, the beta is offline.

this right here is my one real complaint about D3....the whole online only thing. I'm a father, a husband, a college student, involved with a veteran's association and about a million other things, the time I get to play is ALWAYS limited. I'm afraid that what little time I do get to slice away for D3 will be taken from me in the form of "Down for Maintenance". I REALLY wanted to have a offline mode.

Quote from theecheshirekat

this right here is my one real complaint about D3....the whole online only thing. I'm a father, a husband, a college student, involved with a veteran's association and about a million other things, the time I get to play is ALWAYS limited. I'm afraid that what little time I do get to slice away for D3 will be taken from me in the form of "Down for Maintenance". I REALLY wanted to have a offline mode.

uhm no. they just said they plan to have it like once a month for a few hours. so if your only time your able to play is a 4 hour period once a month on the exact day and time as the maintenance. then holy shit your the worlds most unluckiest guy. like the anti-lottery