As you may know, http://diablowiki.com/Runes" class="wiki-link">http://media-diablofans.cursecdn.com/attachments/16/736/wiki2.gif" alt="DiabloWiki.com - Runes"/> Runes in Diablo III will function completely differently than in Diablo II. They will be socketed into skills to change their functionality in a variety of ways, and as such there will have to be some way to switch what rune you have socketed in a skill. Despite the importance of this aspect, we know very little information as to how rune swapping will work. Fortunately, a few weeks ago, @Diablo gave us a small hint as to how this aspect of gameplay will work, which made it clear that there will be some form of restriction on when and where you can change runes. Do you agree with this restriction? And if you do, what kind of restriction do you think the Diablo III team should put in place? Feel free to discuss your opinions in the topic below. If you are unclear on the specifics about runes there is a short summary below, and additional information, including videos of rune effects, can be found in the wiki link above.
Runes are divided into five types, Crimson, Indigo, Obsidian, Golden, and Alabaster. Each rune type will consist of seven different ranks, the first three of which, stone runes, can be found in Normal difficulty, the next two, silver, can be found in Nightmare, and the final two, golden, can be found in Hell. Runes are found through drops and can also be provided and upgraded by the Mystic Artisan.
Last week's poll resulted in a resounding victory for the male Barbarian, followed by the male Monk. The only female character to beat out her male counterpart was the female Wizard, although the female Demon Hunter is currently tied with her male version. It should be noted that the female Barbarian received almost no votes, and if the male's votes were divided by two, the results would have been much closer, although the Barbarian did still receive the most overall votes. It appears people here on DiabloFans enjoy a classic.
Taking it to the mystic with no fees makes the player change it as he likes while not making he change every rune on the fly so he can fight different groups of monsters with different runes.
If the next pack of monsters is so overwhelming that he should change runes, then he can come back to town to do so.
I was torn between choosing the mystic only for a scaled fee option (not constantly rising like Don implied, but based on the rune lvl you want to change) or simply "only in town" (not an option, but should be-would have been Other)
The reason I was torn was that I did not like the idea of being punished for wanting to try different effects. Then I figured, a small fee is not too much of a burden for something which you shouldn't really be doing too often (perhaps once for each rune type and then additionally once for each rune lvl for each skill would be around 80 exchanges)
Edit: If you want to be changing them more frequently, well, the fee shouldn't be something that would cause you to cringe at the thought, but something to consider. I like the idea of changing runes as a tactical decision to overcome a specific threat. I like even more the idea of tactically choosing skills and using them effectively, even when they are not the most optimal selection for a given task. Each combat becomes a challenge of wits to use what you have available to overcome a great diversity of opponents.
Well the Mystic-only option is essentially an only in town option, seeing as the Mystic handles the upgrading of runes and never ventures outside of town.
Also, waypoints will be considerably more common than in D2, so just because there's no town portals doesn't mean that it will be all that long of a process to make your way back. And really, you could make that same argument about skill respeccing, but they still seem to have restrictions on when and where you can do that.
And the main argument against your system is that you'll be able to constantly optimize your character for whatever you're doing. Take, for example, the Hydra runes. If you could just swap them at any time, you could put an Alabaster rune in your Hydra for the arcane AoE effect during large groups of monsters, and then switch back to a single-target rune for bosses. There would at least have to be a considerable gold cost in order to prevent people from constantly switching runes.
Methinks as long as you're out of battle, you should be able to instantly swap runes. Adds more strategy to the game since you can adjust your skills as you go to fight different kinds of enemies in different circumstances, and it helps us continue to get away from the /town drudge of Diablo II.
Seeing as people are leaning towards the idea of not having to go to town often.. How about being able to swap anywhere, but still having it costing gold? I know it doesn't make much sense realistically such as where the gold would go to.. But gameplay and balance wise i think it makes much sense. Would cost a fixed amount of gold but the higher the tier of the rune the higher the cost would be..
Well, i just thought of a way for it to make realistic sense.. You could buy in town a stack of items (or an amount of resource) working in the same way as the Tomes of Identify but for the rune-swap function.. And it could possibly (and preferably) take no space in the inventory. And this resource would not be obtainable through drops, to have it still be a gold sink.
Also having it cost gold results in you being able to look forward to having saved up for a rune-swap. At least through the first play-through =P
Only at the Mystic and for one reason only. I don't want to have to worry about carrying around ten or more runes to quick swap given certain circumstances. I think each waypoint (which is approx. at the end of each level of dungeon figuartively) is more than enough opportunity to test and change combinations.
Argument:
I can understand that people want to have gold sinks, but travelling a lot is just stupid for something like changing a rune.
Besides it fights against two of Blizzards policies regarding the gameplay.
- Going back to town a lot is a big nono.
- Fast paced gameplay.
That's a good point, one I hadn't considered when I voted. I may just change my vote.
That being said, I don't think it's going to be without restrictions. I don't think Blizzard has intended for people to use their inventory as a rune box where they keep several versions of each rune that they might want to use when they encounter a specific monster. Because no restrictions will easily lead to this.
When it comes to going back to town alot I think Blizz just didn't want players using portals to escape danger. Therefore I think a town-based person to swap out ruins would be best because you may only go back to town once every hour or two. A fee I think should not be necessary, but a CD of say 24 hrs because the person doing it must conjour the spirits to commune again.
Well, i just thought of a way for it to make realistic sense.. You could buy in town a stack of items (or an amount of resource) working in the same way as the Tomes of Identify but for the rune-swap function.. And it could possibly (and preferably) take no space in the inventory. And this resource would not be obtainable through drops, to have it still be a gold sink.
I think this would be the best approach since it is a goldsink that doesn't necessarily discourage fast gameplay. With this restriction in place, maybe runes can simply be swapped as long as you're out of combat.
Much like the skills themselves (and even traits) I personally like the idea of rune effects being somewhat permanent rather than being changed after every other enemy horde/dungeon level/etc. This way, the decision-making behind rune-swapping can be a bit more engaging as opposed to a simple no-brainer.
But - I have not played the game nor do I have any clue what NM and Hell will be like with regard to the viability of each of the 7 skills we're allowed. That said, the "cost" of lugging around a bunch of runes may be enough to justify the flexibility.
I think it would be pretty cheap to have a rune for AOE, then immediately change it for singular DPS;
you could simply fully upgrade a few skills and switch one fully upgraded rune between them, which would take no skill at all
I think the Mystic should be the only one to swap out runes. I think for a fee of gold, it can be achieved - sort of like a respec, only your runes are just unsocketed and given back to you. This would help drive the value of gold upwards.
Unsocketing your skill runes could get progressively expensive, until it reached a capped price. It would start fairly affordable, and get less affordable the amount of times you do it.
However, this may be the wrong way to approach it. It would make the player feel like they HAVE to get their skill runes in just the right places, or they have to pay the price to reset them. So I think the best way to implement this is to have the reset to be a set amount of gold, which is fairly affordable, but somewhat expensive - a happy medium.
Yea, I definitely think that switching runes should be an easier process than switching skills, but I don't think it should be all that easy. There should be some sacrifice (time or otherwise) invovled IMO.
No unnecessary limits.
Situation:
I found a new rune, I would love to check what it does to my main spell. *re-equips* Oh that is nice, let's use it in battle. Whoa that is pretty handy but I prefer my old rune better. *re-equips*
IS A LOT BETTER THAN
I found a new rune, I would love to check what it does to my main spell. Oh but I already have a rune equipped, I have to go all the way back to town. *After a long walk.*
Oke, now I can finally re-equip. But I want to test it in battle. *Travelling again*
Well that is neat, but I prefer the other rune. *travel twice again*
Argument:
I can understand that people want to have gold sinks, but travelling a lot is just stupid for something like changing a rune.
Besides it fights against two of Blizzards policies regarding the gameplay.
- Going back to town a lot is a big nono.
- Fast paced gameplay.
There is nothing fun about having to go to town just to change a rune and it removes you from the fast paced action in D3. It's unnecessary to have the mystic change the rune.
I dare you to bring up a good argument to fight mine or else I consider this chocolate cake mine.
You make a lot of good points, let me dwell on it. I'm tied between only being able to change them in town and having the mystic swap them. But these tasks could get annoying while you're trying out the different combos. Honestly I think there will be enough gold sinks in D3 without having to pay the mystic to change your runes.
Edit: I don't think it would be a good idea to change it whenever you feel like it because people are going to abuse it. But we can always have cooldowns.
A lot of people are bringing up the argument that 'I want to see what it does without having to go to town.' Shouldn't they instead give some way to know how a rune will affect a skill before putting it in the skill. Either when you choose a skill it indicates the different varieties offered by runes, or when you hover a rune over a skill it has pop-up text that indicates the change, or even a help menu with a less numeric more flavorful list of runed skills ("multiplies your missiles" "Hurl a corps" "Summon the Toad Lord").
That way you don't necessarily have to test out every rune just to know what you're gonna get. Also It could help you make educated skill choices If you like the sound of skill 1 over a similar skill 2 and you choose it, You may never find out that skill 2 was perfect when given a certain rune and much better than any skill 1 option for your playstyle.
Lol, Thanks for the info Don! didn't know.
Q. Does it work even for skills you haven't yet selected?
Also, It's true that you won't know exactly how well a skill works from just reading about it. I had this come up my first time in Diablo 2. But Ic could let you know a general situation like is this a DoT, CC, DPS, Healing skill or what have you. As far as knowing how effective a skill is, I believe someone already mentioned that That would take a short time to fully determine (about as long as a dungeon takes to clear)
I havent voted yet because im really quite torn (leaning towards other as in just being in town or mystic for just a small fee). :/ But i also think people are reading rune swapping as something that is going to occur often. You have 7 skills, chances are your not gonna want to swap a rune because it works better on this group of monsters. Because you have 6 other skills and probably one of those skills works just fine for that situation.
So actually picture yourself playing. Do you see yourself just using a different skill for that situation or do you see yourself taking the time to stop and switch out a rune?
I say the mystic, because if I acquire a new rune, and want to put it in, I dont want to have to wait hours to try it out, etc etc, maybe just a trip to town when I get the chance.
If the next pack of monsters is so overwhelming that he should change runes, then he can come back to town to do so.
The reason I was torn was that I did not like the idea of being punished for wanting to try different effects. Then I figured, a small fee is not too much of a burden for something which you shouldn't really be doing too often (perhaps once for each rune type and then additionally once for each rune lvl for each skill would be around 80 exchanges)
Edit: If you want to be changing them more frequently, well, the fee shouldn't be something that would cause you to cringe at the thought, but something to consider. I like the idea of changing runes as a tactical decision to overcome a specific threat. I like even more the idea of tactically choosing skills and using them effectively, even when they are not the most optimal selection for a given task. Each combat becomes a challenge of wits to use what you have available to overcome a great diversity of opponents.
Also, waypoints will be considerably more common than in D2, so just because there's no town portals doesn't mean that it will be all that long of a process to make your way back. And really, you could make that same argument about skill respeccing, but they still seem to have restrictions on when and where you can do that.
And the main argument against your system is that you'll be able to constantly optimize your character for whatever you're doing. Take, for example, the Hydra runes. If you could just swap them at any time, you could put an Alabaster rune in your Hydra for the arcane AoE effect during large groups of monsters, and then switch back to a single-target rune for bosses. There would at least have to be a considerable gold cost in order to prevent people from constantly switching runes.
More versatility during battles = more fun.
I can imagine it would mean even more fun during pvp, making things really unpredictable and requiring more skill from the players themselves.
Well, i just thought of a way for it to make realistic sense.. You could buy in town a stack of items (or an amount of resource) working in the same way as the Tomes of Identify but for the rune-swap function.. And it could possibly (and preferably) take no space in the inventory. And this resource would not be obtainable through drops, to have it still be a gold sink.
Also having it cost gold results in you being able to look forward to having saved up for a rune-swap. At least through the first play-through =P
That being said, I don't think it's going to be without restrictions. I don't think Blizzard has intended for people to use their inventory as a rune box where they keep several versions of each rune that they might want to use when they encounter a specific monster. Because no restrictions will easily lead to this.
Much like the skills themselves (and even traits) I personally like the idea of rune effects being somewhat permanent rather than being changed after every other enemy horde/dungeon level/etc. This way, the decision-making behind rune-swapping can be a bit more engaging as opposed to a simple no-brainer.
But - I have not played the game nor do I have any clue what NM and Hell will be like with regard to the viability of each of the 7 skills we're allowed. That said, the "cost" of lugging around a bunch of runes may be enough to justify the flexibility.
you could simply fully upgrade a few skills and switch one fully upgraded rune between them, which would take no skill at all
Unsocketing your skill runes could get progressively expensive, until it reached a capped price. It would start fairly affordable, and get less affordable the amount of times you do it.
However, this may be the wrong way to approach it. It would make the player feel like they HAVE to get their skill runes in just the right places, or they have to pay the price to reset them. So I think the best way to implement this is to have the reset to be a set amount of gold, which is fairly affordable, but somewhat expensive - a happy medium.
You make a lot of good points, let me dwell on it. I'm tied between only being able to change them in town and having the mystic swap them. But these tasks could get annoying while you're trying out the different combos. Honestly I think there will be enough gold sinks in D3 without having to pay the mystic to change your runes.
Edit: I don't think it would be a good idea to change it whenever you feel like it because people are going to abuse it. But we can always have cooldowns.
That way you don't necessarily have to test out every rune just to know what you're gonna get. Also It could help you make educated skill choices If you like the sound of skill 1 over a similar skill 2 and you choose it, You may never find out that skill 2 was perfect when given a certain rune and much better than any skill 1 option for your playstyle.
Q. Does it work even for skills you haven't yet selected?
Also, It's true that you won't know exactly how well a skill works from just reading about it. I had this come up my first time in Diablo 2. But Ic could let you know a general situation like is this a DoT, CC, DPS, Healing skill or what have you. As far as knowing how effective a skill is, I believe someone already mentioned that That would take a short time to fully determine (about as long as a dungeon takes to clear)
So actually picture yourself playing. Do you see yourself just using a different skill for that situation or do you see yourself taking the time to stop and switch out a rune?
Swap has a 1min cooldown: can swap any runes you have already linked to skill.
Fresh Runes: Useable on skill after sinking gold through item provided through mystic's quest? :sorcerer: