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Yes! I love it when you guys do things like this. Thanks!

Quote from Ivaron

1. That the Horadric Mage would choose to write that the three "mysteriously" came to their world does not nescesarily mean that he didn't know about them being banished. He could for instance mean that their arrival was mysterious to them initially until Tyrael explained it.

Right. But the book is written three hundred years after the event. While he could just say it as if he meant "at the time it was a mystery". But the passage seems to be more honest.
Take the first sentence "bear witness to the truths herein", it seems to suggest that he's spilling as much as he can.

Of course, it could just be Blizzard writing it like this for the benefit of someone coming along these books their first time through. No need to spoil what's in the other books.

However, the fact remains that The Binding of the Three is written distinctly different from the Horadrim tomes. It could still have been part of a horadric library I suppose.

Quote from Ivaron

3. Ah, so there actually IS a quote that proves Diablo is the youngest. And here I was thinking everyone just assumed so after Mephisto said "go now, my young brother" in the Act IV opening cinematic.

Amazing what's hidden here and there isn't it?

Phrozen...This is freakin' awesome. So glad you made this.

Great article Phrozen. The Diablo 1 tombs are amazing stories and your explanations really help to relate it to other lore.

You should find a way to upload the sound files. The voice that reads the tombs makes them even better.

Haha, don't you love the absurd amounts of lore within Diablo I?

Wow this looks great Phrozen, good job. im gona read it later.

Quote from Ophion

If the Prime Evils themselves planned their exile, and all other demons are not aware of their plans, then the most likely author imo is Izual, since he revealed the secret of the Soulstones.

If I remember correctly a quest involving Izual was originally supposed to be in Diablo 1, but it was cut. Maybe the tombs would have been explained more in quests that didn't make it into the final game.

Quote from HungryHippo7

You should find a way to upload the sound files. The voice that reads the tombs makes them even better.

I haven't looked the file structure for D1, but it looks like it's similar to how D2 is set up. I should be able to do that

Quote from Zhar

Haha, don't you love the absurd amounts of lore within Diablo I?

Well, I wouldn't call it absurb precisely. I will expect lots more than this in D3, that's for sure.

Quote from Ophion

I'm pretty curious about the author of the last 4 tomes mentioned. They are obviously demon related, and the last one appears to be someone with significant knowledge of everything that happened from the banishment, and with a prediction of what Diablo will do once he is "reborn" (indicating that the author knows that he will escape). If the Prime Evils themselves planned their exile, and all other demons are not aware of their plans, then the most likely author imo is Izual, since he revealed the secret of the Soulstones.

Well the Black King is most certainly written by Lazarus, and whatever knowledge is presented there has obviously been given to him by Diablo himself.

Izual is a candidate for the last three to be sure, but we know much too little of what he's actually done for the Three to be able to draw any conclusions. All the information we have on him comes from the Fallen Angel quest in Diablo II, and that's not a whole lot, besides the fact that there's more to the revolution than one might think.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

There is a slight change here. The Sin War technically refers to the initial conflict that befell Sanctuary (the entirety of those events is laid out in the Sin War novels). Other than that, the passage is still canon.

I think the Sin War is by far the greatest chapter in Diablo lore that has undergone changes to accommodate D3 and the Sin War Trilogy.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

This text is mysterious. While the text in itself remains canonical, it is clearly revealed in the first paragraph that the Horadrim were unaware of why the Three were in fact on Sanctuary to begin with. In another book further down, The Binding of the Three, it is clarified that the Three were overthrown by the Lesser Evils.

You have to wonder since the Horadrim was founded under the guidance of the High Heavens, that they might have had some idea as to why they were exiled. What I wonder sometimes is if they had any idea how they were exiled. And I don't mean the process in which the Lesser Evils overthrew them, but how they were actually banished to the mortal realm. I guess we just have to assume that with demonic magic you could do just about anything relative to the more conventional magics existing on Sanctuary.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

However in Diablo II when Deckard Cain gives the quest Sisters to the Slaugher to the player, he reveals that:

"Ancient Horadric texts record that Andariel and the other Lesser Evils once overthrew the three Prime Evils -- Diablo, Mephisto and Baal -- banishing them from Hell to our world."

At first glance, it would seem as if this is crystal clear: the book in Diablo I must have been written by a Horadrim mage, and that is how Deckard Cain knows of it. But what one must remember is that Cain is only just barely a Horadrim; the order fell apart before he was born, and the only reason he carries the title is because his ancestor was a Horadrim, and since the order no longer exists, there's no one to stop him from using the title. Clearly Cain managed to retrieve the book "The Binding of the Three" from Tristram, but it is not clear whether he actually knows who wrote it, or just assumed it was a Horadrim mage becasue he found it in their old fortress.

Well it's all mentioned too in the game manual and other tomes.

And yes, I'm glad you're acknowledging here that Cain is a Horadrim by name only. It's one reason I always got so irritated at Diablo lore conspiracy theorists overestimating his importance. He doesn't have all these special powers. He's just an old guy that was born with the title Horadrim and has studied most of his life all that he can find about the order. You're just supposed to assume it's unfortunate that he is the closest thing to a living Horadric archive. But maybe it's not all that bad. Because the Horadrim ultimately failed. Clearly there was meant to be an order or an individual that could have more of an effect than the Horadrim ever did. I think it was High Heavens influence on the order's creation that led the Horadrim to failure. They were conceited and quickly lost sight of their goals and turned to politicking and power struggles.

I thin it's important also to consider that the same voice narrating the tomes (besides the one your character reads) are all supposedly Lazarus. There are open tomes about on the Horadrim and they are read by Lazarus' voice. Could he have been altering tomes? Eh, probably not. But it's a fun idea to throw around.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

This is the only passage during which the title "Destroyer of Souls" is used for Diablo. Since it is capitalized it is clearly a title, but it has never been mentioned after this. Perhaps it is just the ravings of Lazarus, or perhaps there is some unknown connection that Diablo has to souls in general that we are unaware of.

In many fictional works, beings of great power, or even average characters can have many titles depending on who is referring to that character. I think especially in a cult, such as the one Lazarus was building around Diablo, you'd see lots of alternate names for him because they begin to revere and fear the thing they worship so much, that they are afraid to use its true name. Thus, they create a string of other names.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

This is definitely canonical, though whether it is true or not is another matter. Izual holds a speech in Diablo II that casts some doubt as to whether it was truly a revolution or simply a very elaborate plan by the Prime Evils:

"You see, it was I who told Diablo and his Brothers about the Soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile to your world."

Still, the mere fact that a revolution did take place, whether real or faked, is not something just any mortal is capable of knowing. And it wouldn't have been a very good scheme if anyone knew the rebellion was a sham.

I actually liked the idea better in D1 that the Lesser Evils had actually done this. It seems to support my theory that demons are constantly struggling for more power over other demons. We can definitely see this behavior on a smaller scale with the Fallen. They will do all kinds of things to gain power even if there is no basis for such an attempt. For example, when the Fallen stole Ogden's sign because they believed it to be an artifact of power. Some people thin it's really a mundane quest in D1 but I found it to be very insightful.

What I'd like to believe about the Great Exile is that both accounts are true. In other words, the Lesser Evils really did overthrow them but not because they mustered just enough power to do so. It was because the Prime Evils allowed it to happen. But they had to make it convincing enough to fool mortals and the High Heavens. The Prime Evils knew all along that they could easily destroy the Lesser Evils but kept them around to use as pawns. And even after the Great Exile, they were clever enough to convince the Lesser Evils that all three Prime Evils would be united again and be returning to Hell. Out of fear of what the Prime Evils might do to them, Lesser Evils such as Andariel and Duriel accepted the Prime Evil's offer to gain redemption by occupying those key strategic areas in D2 (the Rogue Citadel and Tal Rasha's tomb). By the time Izual reveals to you that it all was an elaborate scheme, well by then it didn't make a difference anyway. It was Izual's final gesture to rub it in your face that all you were doing was for nothing. But we showed him! Wiiii!!

Quote from PhrozenDragon

True, though the amount of angels is probably limited to mainly Tyrael and perhaps some lesser angels under his command. At least, no angel but Tyrael has ever been named to have helped the Horadrim.

It would seem I'm making a huge error here. I was under the impression that the Horadrim was founded by under the guidance of the High Heavens. I'm almost certain there's some reference to back this up somewhere. I'll have to search for it again. I mean, I know that Tyrael gave the Soulstones to the Horadrim. That's certainly not under dispute. But I guess I thought that Tyrael has something to do with even all the mage clans uniting. There is little information about the individual mage clans themselves, but what we can tell is that they are all very protective of their identities and beliefs. It seemed logical to me that nothing could possibly unite them all except a direct intervention from the High Heavens.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

This clearly highlights that a Horadrim mage did not write this book. A Horadrim would not call his order cursed, and he would not refer to the Horadrim as "mortal". It suggests that a demon, or some other immortal being, has written this.

That's Lazarus. I know by the time you actually fight Lazarus in the game he sounds nothing like the narrator of those books. But I'm sure some others will back me up that it is indeed Lazarus' voice. I think I concluded that also though because of when one of the tomes speaks of the abduction of Albrecht. Doesn't it? Eh, it's been a couple months since I've even played the game.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

What is also interesting about this book is that it is the only quote that mentions Diablo as the youngest brother. There are plenty of passages that mention Mephisto as the eldest, but only this one named Diablo as the youngest. It has consequently never been disproved either, so it seems entirely reasonable to assume that this holds true.

And what's even MORE interesting to me is the demons of chaos hold such concepts of age, seniority, or even time. I even wondered before if their titles, Hatred, Destruction, and Terror denoted their seniority in order of which was most conducive to chaos. But then I might have felt that Destruction would have made Baal the eldest brother. Of course, hatred and terror are less corporeal things and are perhaps more pervasive and timeless than mere destruction.

Great Share, Phrozen, If anyone wants more history lore check out my youtube.

Quote from HungryHippo7

You should find a way to upload the sound files. The voice that reads the tombs makes them even better.

I have this old, awful techno remix of the reading of the tomes from some time in the late 1990s. I keep it around because it's sadly my only audio copy of the tale. Aside from my own reading that I did during my theater days. Heh.

The Sin War (Diablo Techno).mp3

The voice actor is Paul Eiding, by the way, also the voice of Aldaris, Pepin, Lazarus, Mephisto, and the Warrior. Prolific fellow.

Quote from Siaynoq

You have to wonder since the Horadrim was founded under the guidance of the High Heavens, that they might have had some idea as to why they were exiled. What I wonder sometimes is if they had any idea how they were exiled. And I don't mean the process in which the Lesser Evils overthrew them, but how they were actually banished to the mortal realm. I guess we just have to assume that with demonic magic you could do just about anything relative to the more conventional magics existing on Sanctuary.

That is a good question, one I don't have a satisfactory answer to. Perhaps the banishing weakened them in some way, preventing them from returning. But Diablo was running around for decades, it's not likely he simply never recuperated from that initial banishment. There must be some magic involved here.

Quote from Siaynoq

I thin it's important also to consider that the same voice narrating the tomes (besides the one your character reads) are all supposedly Lazarus. There are open tomes about on the Horadrim and they are read by Lazarus' voice. Could he have been altering tomes? Eh, probably not. But it's a fun idea to throw around.

I would dispute that. We only hear Lazarus once, and he doesn't sound like that at all.

Quote from Siaynoq

I actually liked the idea better in D1 that the Lesser Evils had actually done this. It seems to support my theory that demons are constantly struggling for more power over other demons. We can definitely see this behavior on a smaller scale with the Fallen. They will do all kinds of things to gain power even if there is no basis for such an attempt. For example, when the Fallen stole Ogden's sign because they believed it to be an artifact of power. Some people thin it's really a mundane quest in D1 but I found it to be very insightful.

Not only the Fallen, but higher demons like Astrogha, Lilith and Kabraxis.

Quote from Siaynoq

What I'd like to believe about the Great Exile is that both accounts are true. In other words, the Lesser Evils really did overthrow them but not because they mustered just enough power to do so. It was because the Prime Evils allowed it to happen. But they had to make it convincing enough to fool mortals and the High Heavens. The Prime Evils knew all along that they could easily destroy the Lesser Evils but kept them around to use as pawns.

I think you're very much correct in this. Azmodan and Belial are certainly engaged in a conflict. This does not tell us whether they both know what purpose their war is for, if they believe they are the masterminds or if they willingly serve the Three, but you must have a real war if you want to fool the Heavens. The Great Conflict may be across planes, but they still scout each other, and the High Heavens would be able to tell if there was in fact no war.

Quote from Siaynoq

It would seem I'm making a huge error here. I was under the impression that the Horadrim was founded by under the guidance of the High Heavens. I'm almost certain there's some reference to back this up somewhere. I'll have to search for it again.

Well imagine being a Horadrim. If Tyrael appeared (perhaps with some lesser angels) and told you he was sent from the High Heavens, gave you some stones and helped you found an order to hunt down the most vicious demons ever, how would you tell whether it was the entire angelic host or just a rogue council member helping you?

Quote from Siaynoq

I mean, I know that Tyrael gave the Soulstones to the Horadrim. That's certainly not under dispute. But I guess I thought that Tyrael has something to do with even all the mage clans uniting. There is little information about the individual mage clans themselves, but what we can tell is that they are all very protective of their identities and beliefs. It seemed logical to me that nothing could possibly unite them all except a direct intervention from the High Heavens.

Which I believe Tyrael could very well satisfy in his own right.

Quote from Siaynoq

That's Lazarus. I know by the time you actually fight Lazarus in the game he sounds nothing like the narrator of those books. But I'm sure some others will back me up that it is indeed Lazarus' voice. I think I concluded that also though because of when one of the tomes speaks of the abduction of Albrecht. Doesn't it? Eh, it's been a couple months since I've even played the game.

I don't think so. All of the books are in the original post (except for the quest books), and the last three do not seem to be written by Lazarus. They're not at all in the same style. And the voice reading the books certainly isn't the same as Lasarus. Same actor doesn't really mean anything, they are quite distinct.

Quote from Siaynoq

And what's even MORE interesting to me is the demons of chaos hold such concepts of age, seniority, or even time.

Well they would have to wouldn't they? Total chaos wouldn't make for a very effective army against Heaven now would it? just as perfect order at all times would be detriemental to the effort of the angels.

Quote from Eldritch

The voice actor is Paul Eiding, by the way, also the voice of Aldaris, Pepin, Lazarus, Mephisto, and the Warrior. Prolific fellow.

Yeah I was just waiting for the "clearly, Tassadar has failed us" when I read those tomes ingame

This clearly highlights that a Horadrim mage did not write this book. A Horadrim would not call his order cursed, and he would not refer to the Horadrim as "mortal". It suggests that a demon, or some other immortal being, has written this.

Im pretty sure that if your order was given the task of hunting down and capturing the prime evils you would think your order was cursed.

Quote from Gaschk13

Im pretty sure that if your order was given the task of hunting down and capturing the prime evils you would think your order was cursed.

Or chosen. Regardless, the rest of the text, and they way it is written in, with the quite specific knowledge it reveals, does not support a Horadrim writing it.

Still, it could very well be that an outsider looking at the Horadrim, and what they did, would call them cursed because of the job they were tasked with.

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Personally, i hope they highlight the lore more in D3 than they did with D2, which was pretty weak compared to D1 imo.

Quote from PhrozenDragon

I would dispute that. We only hear Lazarus once, and he doesn't sound like that at all.

I don't care. You're wrong. It's him.

Yeah, but i mean in D1 it was a lot more powerful and gripping. The voice acting was amazing, the lyrics in the tomes were well written and then there was also the highly emotional background music and atmospheric background audio to make it just that more juicy.

I just mean that if u compare the D1 narrating to the D2 narrating, the D1 one had a lot more feel to it.

Yea D2 had one tome and that was for the The Countess. Weak sauce. Oh, and actually that other tome in the Arcane Sanctuary which to be fair was actually pretty interesting.