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- Introduction
It seems obvious that higher difficulty levels are just not worth it as all Torment difficulties drop the same items, but supposedly at a different rate. The aim of this report is to provide a quantitative analysis of the drop rates for torment difficulties, and provide a recommendation in farming through comparing drop rates in and outside of rifts. Additionally, magic find (MF) will be factored into the consideration as an extra factor.
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2. Equation Basis
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12413271220?page=13#241 This is 1.15^N as confirmed in this blue post, where N = torment difficulty level.
This was edited. Before there was an equation here that I had manipulated and used this as another reference as comparison to the 1.15^N in case either were right, but alas, 1.15^N was confirmed 3 days ago after I had done any work so only that will be shown. If for whatever reason the previous equation that was here that linked known monster health percent versus difficulty (which also can be thought of as increasing time to kill a mob - a logical way to warrant a drop rate increase), and the blue is just agreeing to release a critical piece of information that has never been released before so whimsically, then that information is no longer public. Your standard 1.15^N formula is shown, as was all along before alongside a separate approach. Nonetheless, the two were similar.
Everything taken into consideration is just looking at the legendary drop rate factor increase for varying parameters. It is in no way explaining the most effective place to farm, as that is left up to the player skill level, gear, speed in clearing, and density/type of monsters/chests in your exclusive rift or outside location. Under the assumption that there is no clear choice/multiple options, these graphs can help lead you in a certain direction.
3. Rifting versus Non-Rifting and Magic Find
Using these values, one can make a comparison against the legendary drop rate factor inside a rift (1.25x multiplier) versus outside of a rift. As one can see below, certain points can be made.
- Torment 1 rifting is slightly worse than drop rates from Torment 3 non-rifting.
- Torment 2 rifting is slightly worse than Torment 4 non-rifting.
- Torment 3 rifting is between Torment 4/Torment 5 non-rifting.
- Torment 4 rifting is near Torment 6 non-rifting
The question of magic find (MF) and its effectiveness in Reaper of Souls usually ends with 'MF NOT WORTH IT!' Below shows varying MF inside of a rift (assuming MF is multiplicative and legendaries receive 10% of their MF towards legendary drop rates [i.e. 150 MF contributes to 15%] i.e. 1.15*1.25*base_torment_droprate). The plot is shown below.
- Wearing no MF inside a Torment 2 rift is slightly less than Torment 4 farming outside of a rift
- Wearing 50 MF inside a Torment 2 rift is equivalent to Torment 4 farming outside of a rift
- Wearing 150 MF inside a Torment 2 rift is slightly less than Torment 5 farming outside of a rift
- Wearing 300 MF inside a Torment 2 rift is almost equivalent to Torment 6 farming outside of a rift
Therefore, as a recommendation for actual possible MF values (Nagelring 50%, Topaz in helm 41%, Cain's set 50%), we can say that for 150 MF farming a Torment 3 rift, we are about the same as Torment 6 outside of rifts. Since Torment 3 speed runs with 150 MF seem much more plausible with the current player/state of the game, this seems to grant the biggest bang for the buck if done consistently and at a proper pace. Comparisons for outside of rift for varying MF are omitted as most interest will likely fall upon the inside-rift scenario due to the 1.25x multiplier (which inherently acts like 250 MF as legendaries receive 10% of the MF value). Nonetheless, other conclusions can be drawn, and these graphs can be used to quantify other questions for varying player skill levels and character capabilities. Choices should be made based upon your own capabilities to optimize speed, location (possible dense area of chests outside rifts), and individual skill.
Battletag is Galice#1533 for questions/inquiries. Galice/Galiks/Galrosh @US-Kil'jaeden (retired for now) Feel free to join my diablo clan <Arch Druid> for a feisty environment and anyone looking for a full-clear heroic WoW guild check out http://www.archdruidguild.com/.
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Definitely no need for an apology Edriel! Although they share the same purpose (expanding endgame) your ideas here are very distinct and interesting.
I have to head out for a meeting right now but I'll read through in detail and leave some feedback when I'm home. But amazing presentation as per usual Edriel!
Also, do you mind if I add you in-game?
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So I've been compiling a list of feedback and bugs to report for the Beta, but I just wanted to quickly share this as a QoL suggestion.
Cooldown Reduction, Resource Cost Reduction and +Skill% are all fantastic additions to the game, but I feel their benefits need more succinct representation in the UI. I really love that we can now view stat ranges on items when holding CTRL, so I thought, why not apply a similar function to Skill tooltips that shows their effective values. I made this quick mock-up as an example of how this display would function and what it would look like.
I feel this type of direct presentation makes those stats feel more tangible, while allowing for much more efficient theorycrafting.
Any thoughts on this? Or perhaps alternatives?
Edit: Dude, terrible spelling.
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I'm starting to think that you and I are sharing some type of cosmic wavelength. Love the thread!
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Just wanted to share this mock-up infographic I designed for a new endgame option within D3. I've been traveling quite a bit for work, so to deal with my Diablo withdrawals I've pieced this together based on some existing ideas I've seen within the community as well as some new ones of my own.
Would love to hear some feedback on the concept as well as thoughts on what endgame means to you in Diablo.
Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/JadEbrk.jpg
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Why? The endgame in Diablo has always been about farming for better loot so you can farm for better loot.. better.
I agree! This is purely intended to augment that loot hunt we all know and love and extend the game's replayability, not replace it.
Why not just include Trials and Towers in Adventure Mode?
Good question. Each mode has a specific purpose that not everyone will be interested in, so overloading Adventure Mode with additional features feels like messy design to me. Story Mode = Enjoy the story, Adventure Mode = Play the item-hunt game (heart of Diablo franchise), Challenge Mode = Optional, augmentative content that extends the lifespan of the item-hunt game. But of course these modes could be joined, this is merely personal preference.
Does that mean no gear rewarded in Challenge Mode?
Yes. Only cosmetic rewards, competitive rankings and XP are offered in Challenge Mode. If Challenge Mode offered loot rewards, it would diminish the inherent purpose of Adventure Mode. The aim is to bring the heroes you've built into Challenge Mode to see what they can do, i.e; to improve your capabilities in Challenge Mode you need to farm Adventure Mode.
TL;DR: I like to compartmentalize.
Are Trials and Towers randomized to any extent?
No. By removing the random elements in regards to layouts, monster types and density, the Trials and Towers can serve as directly measurable content in a competitive sense. If random was at play, someone could simply perform well due to having "lucky RNG". So to summarize, randomization has been removed in Challenge Mode in order to level the playing field.
How does Difficulty work in relation to Trials and Towers?
Trials that are not affected directly by difficulty (like Race Trials) exist as static events that are played and ranked the same across all difficulty levels. Trials that contain monsters and are therefore affected by difficulty selection are ranked as per the difficulty in which the player achieved their result (see: Seasonal Leaderboards UI). Pandemonium Towers are capped on lower difficulties, higher ascension only becomes available with higher difficulties, with the Pandemonium Tower becoming "uncapped" on Torment VI.
The Tower is Endless?
Theoretically, yes. The increase in difficulty is dynamic up until the fixed rewards cease (Level 100), after that, each level sees a static increase (additive percentage) in Monster Damage and Hit Points. For the purpose of this concept let's say that's 5% per level, this means the most godly geared/skilled players can truly test their heroes to the absolute limits.
Couldn't you just skip mobs? Change to a more defensive spec for higher levels? And what happens when you die?
To access the next level you would be required to kill all the monsters on the current level. Skill selection would be locked from when you enter the Tower with a checkpoint every 25 Levels at which you can change your skill spec. These checkpoints also act as respawn points upon death, but they no longer appear after Level 100 (which would be very hard to reach as is).
Overall I haven't put too much thought into how tower progression would work, but I think losing all of your progress upon death would be a bit too much considering how long the climb is. I would love to hear some other ideas/suggestions regarding this!
What is this simultaneous instance nonsense?
When there are other players in your game and you choose to start a Trial or Tower, a dialogue box appears asking them if they would like to join in and challenge you. If they accept, they will be transported to their own instance of the same challenge. You are able to see the "ghosts" of other players according to where they are in their instance (see "Festering Circuit" race screenshot), but you have no direct affect on their game environment. For Tower Races, you would receive toast notifications in your chat each time a player reaches a new level.
Why not just have them in the same instance?
The competitive factor in Trials and Towers is based around how well each player performs, not how effectively you can impede your rivals. This is especially applicable to wave-type Trials and Pandemonium Towers, in which you can't have both characters in the same instance without it being Co-op.
Are the Bosses in Boss Time-trials different from their typical versions?
Yes, they would essentially be Uber versions of their normal encounters, with additional modifiers, more minions, larger HP pools etc.
Do Race Trials have other variables?
Races have additional factors in play outside of simply getting a character from point A to B. For example, Speed-boosting Nephalem Glory orbs can spawn along the route but might not always be in the most desirable of locations. In addition, obstacles such as Bear Traps and Barricades can impede your progress (another reason for separate instances). P.S- I love Mario Kart.
Uhh.. Where is PvP?
Ideally, Challenge Mode would also accomodate any type of future PvP implementation. I haven't included it in my concept as it's such a gigantic feature that it would probably need it's own infographic.
What's with the groan-worthy TV show references?
Because geeknerd.
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They actually do, new characters can allocated Paragon Points directly from Level 1.
But if they choose not to they're not forced to.
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If you look at the datamined Lore Book info, you will see that both Inarius and Lilith have a number of tomes that will obviously be read by them, hence the Avatars appearing. No Lore Books revealed so far for Meph or Baal but I'd say that's likely the case as opposed to them actually showing up in-game.
Will just have to wait and see though.
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It's not. This isn't Loot 2.0, it's Loot 1.5. These are just scaled higher and can drop at all levels, Loot 2.0 actually has each and every legendary item redesigned to give a unique effect.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/AtheneWins
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I agree. I've been saying March 2014 since last year.
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The console and PC have separate teams with minimal crossover. Looking at your other posts it's evident you choose not to believe this and that's fine, but there's no way they developed the console version in the few short months since the last patch. Likewise there's no way this expansion (which looks to be very developed already) has only had a month or so of work put into it since the console went gold.
It's quite obvious they both have separate teams. Josh may have been heading up the console version for the better part of the last year, but that doesn't mean the PC team wasn't hard at work under the guidance of Travis and Wyatt. The expansion and these new "2.0" systems are looking very polished and they have clearly been the PC teams focus for quite a while now.
As for "patch 1.0.9", that was never a real thing. It's just the logical next step in patching so everyone assumes it was coming at some point. It's likely not. I think these 2.0 systems will make the minor re-visionary leap to 1.1.0 or even 2.0.0, so it's unlikely we will ever see a 1.0.9 and that's no surprise as a 1.0.9 was never actually mentioned by devs.
All the system 2.0 changes are way too far reaching to be a simple "patch" denotation of 1.0.X, not to mention the new retroactive content in Nephalem Trials and Loot Runs.