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    posted a message on What does direct heal actually mean?
    Quote from tanis0

    I'm not a monk expert, but iirc correctly from when I looked into this recently, pretty much any skill which heals another player counts. Here's a list I just found on the battle.net forums, though I can't guarantee accuracy:

    Breath of Heaven / All Runes.
    Mantra of Healing / All Runes.
    Inner Sanctuary / Safe Haven Rune.
    Cyclone Strike / Soothing Breeze Rune.

    Just to confirm, these are correct.
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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    posted a message on Over 170m exp/hour (AC2)
    Quote from Rhye

    It works great. I'm levling my 2nd monk to PL100 and I thought I'd give this a try. On runs where there are tons of spiders, I get 150mill xp/h. But those runs are not common. Most of the time there are very few spiders. I think I average on 80+mill xp/h on MP10.

    When patch 1.0.8 hits there will be new places to go anyways. The best mob density will be in Realm of Shadows, so that's where I will test. Although Moldran got bad results from there. Can't really compare barb and monks xp/hour I guess.

    The exp from realm of shadows got nerfed. Also the value of NV stacks will be huge in next patch. My guess is that best runs will be similar to the classic alkaizer, where you get stacks first and then clear the best areas of the act.

    Quote from latest PTR notes:

    Experience granted by Doom Wraiths, Shade Stalkers, and Shadow Vermin has been reduced by 50%
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    Quote from TianZi

    The chance for an elite to drop gear seems to be 3.5. Tested fairly consistent in MP0, MP5, and MP10

    True. Although this we pretty much knew already, if we are to trust the MF post on these theorycrafting forums. That being the best D3 research I'v ever seen, I see little reason not to.

    Also the consistent 3 or 4 gear drops (without NV ofc) is the 'elite pack' drops and the mobs in the pack can each drop loot as well. Just pointing out, since this is the reason I didn't just kill the elite in my research and deduct the kills and the gear drops, I think this would have affected the numbers too much.

    Quote from TianZi

    Under the assumption that the mobs in CotA have 35% drop rate, the 33% chance for an item to be gear is still almost spot on for MP10 trash mobs as well. However, in my MP0 testing, my actual gear drops seem slightly lower than expected but at least a tad over 30%. The same goes with your MP0 results, the MP0 results showing even lower at 28.5%.

    Which bothers me a little, since both of our numbers are still under the expected 33% for MP0, even though we're hitting the expected 133% in MP10.

    Personally I don't see where these "35% to drop anything"- and "1/3rd gear drops"-assumptions comes from. I don't think there's much justification for it, or maybe I'v missed something here. The drop rates are certainly in that range, but Blizz really isn't known for nice round numbers, look at any drop rates or w/e tables that they have released and there is very little rounding there (for example DE drop rates or the MP table linked in this post). My point being that I see little sense in making such hypotheses and would rather just use the average of whatever research we have available.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    Updated the OP with another 1k kills on MP 10.

    Quote from Chazhang

    I ran an analysis for KD2 farming and got pretty similar results: http://www.reddit.co...tistics/c8w75n9

    After increasing the data size a bit more I found that
    PID* = 1.66e-5
    POAD* = 1.72e-4

    Meaning the probability of a piece of gear dropping is 9.65%
    and if we use the base legendary drop rate of 1/2000 then the probability of anything dropping is 34.4%

    Of course my methodology is a lot worse than yours since I was reverse calculating from legendary drops; however, the data samples were a combination of Moldrans 400k and Imthereals 450k lifetime kills on MP10 and a total of ~350k lifetime kills on MP9 from various other plvl 100 barb farmers.

    It's interesting and kinda encouraging to hear that other have reached similar results. Although I don't really know how trustworthy the data is. I assume its collected with a loot alert program and includes drops from elites as well. Other questions off the top off my head include how trustworthy the program is, does it count items from containers, what does it calculate as gear drops etc.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Returning to game. Gear advice needed
    If you don't mind a little self promotion, I believe this gearing guide on EU forums might be a good read for you:

    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
  • 0

    posted a message on D3 Bonus XP Calculator
    This is actually pretty sweet. Thanks!

    I very much like the super simple UI, since anything too complicated and I'd be better off doing the calculation my self.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on [VIDEO] MP 10 Trash farming build - Keep Depths 2
    I'd say this very doable with a ~500m budget if we can assume that farming essences is not a problem. Actually with 1 bil you can get very close to my stats with if you choose to use OWE.
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    The post was updated with a significantly larger sample size for MP 0 kills. Hardly affected the drop chance numbers though.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    Quote from shadowbane

    Good work, OP. I'm confused about something though:

    In Table 2, what are the differences in assumptions (or derivation) regarding the 3rd and 5th column? The way I'm reading it, you should be able to get the 3rd from the 5th by dividing each entry by 8727/1000 = 8.727, unless I'm missing something..

    3rd column only calculates the AMOUNT of gear drops. This info you need if you want to calculate the difference in efficiency with your own MF. Since the amount of MF from other sources affects the relative benefit of the increased MF from Monster Power. 5th column is an example calculation assuming no NV stacks but 300 MF from PL/gear.

    Example 1:

    You have 0 MF and don't get NV stacks and play MP 9 vs MP 10:

    the difference in MF is 225 vs 250
    the difference in likelyhood of legendary is 3,25:3,5 ( 7,1% )

    Example 2:

    You have 300 MF from PL 100 and get 5 stacks of NV and play MP 9 VS 10.

    the difference in MF is 600 vs 625
    the likelyhood of legendary is 7:7,25 (3,4%)

    So in the first example each gear drop on MP 10 is 7,1% more valuable (7,1% more likely to roll a lege), and in the second example each gear drop on MP 10 is only 3,4% more valuable.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on [VIDEO] MP 10 Trash farming build - Keep Depths 2
    Quote from heavymetalmak

    But it is an addicting build if you can make it work. its super fun to practice this build on mp0....tons of fun
    Yea, the absolute best thing about this build is just how fun it is to play. The same results can prolly be reached with WOL builds as well. It's just so hectic all the time and always ends in big boom with everything in sight blowing to pieces. Definately the most fun solo farming build I know.
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    Quote from TianZi

    If possible, can you do a second set of the same "data runs" so I can test numbers again?

    I definitely plan to do this in the future, but prolly won't be for a few days. Takes hours to collect the data and I'll be fairly busy in the coming days.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits
    Quote from rebjorn

    So basically it's all about MP4-5.

    Definately not the case for all gear levels. My best farming methods are in the range of 60 life time kills per minute on MP 10. I highly doubt any area has enough mobs to reach anything like 150 per minute on MP 5.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
  • 6

    posted a message on Bonus Item System - The real benefits

    This post presents some research I did to figure out the effects of the Bonus Item system, to provide information for myself and other people wanting to figure out what Monster Power is most efficient for them to farm for them sweet brimstones.

    The main goal was to figure out how much faster does MPs 7-9 need to be farmed to better for legendary farming than similar run on MP 10.

    TL;DR: Jump to section 4. Table 2.

    1. Introduction
    2. Data collection
    3. Data
    4. Analysis& Results
    5. Discussion
    6. Updates&Future plans

    1. Introduction

    There was some very interesting discussion on US monk forums about which MP is the best for Crypt of the Ancients farming. While many good points were raised, the discussion resulted in a ‘who knows’-result due to the fact that no-one knew exactly how the Bonus Item system introduced with the Monster Power system affects loots. When doing similar farming run it is common and quite accurate to compare Life Time Kills per hour and the effects of the changes in Magic Find, when changing the Monster Power, are easily calculated. None of this helps much when the average amount of gear items varies between monster power and no-one really seems to know how.
    The discussion topic for those interested:


    The only information originally given about the Bonus Items was this quote from the original Monster Power post by Blizzard:
    In Inferno, in addition to increased experience, Magic Find, and Gold Find, whenever a monster dies and drops an item normally (whether it be gold, a potion, or a piece of gear), the monster also has a chance to drop an additional bonus item. The chance to drop a bonus item will scale up with each MP level as detailed in the table below.


    It was later confirmed by blue post that the Bonus Items are always gear drops. This is extremely important in understanding the benefits of the Bonus Item system. Basically this means that 100% Bonus Items not only mean another piece of gear drops for every piece of gear dropped, but a piece of gear also drops for every time a monster drops gold, potions, tomes etc. Generally it is the amount of gear drops that people interested in farming efficiency want to know.
    (Also, I saw this asked earlier, but the bonus item will always be a piece of gear, not a potion or gold or anything else.)

    Here is where the problem comes in: No-one seemed to know drop chances or the relative drop chances for gear items and other drops. This means we have no way to mathematically determine which MP is best even though we can figure out the kills per hour and the effects of the changes in Magic Find.

    2.Data collection

    So I set out to calculate kills and gear drops from white mobs on Monster Powers 0 and 10. Since Life Time Kills in profile update only when you leave a game, I needed to figure out a run where I don’t kill anything extra. I chose to do this in the Crypt of the Ancients in act 1.

    I only calculated loots and kills from runs where the elite spawned in lower area and therefore I could leave it be. This way I only kill the same 2 types of monsters, with a very strong emphasis on the Returned. On every run I let the Returned Summoners spawn all the returned they would, so that the amount of Returned-kills in relation to the amount of Returned Summoner-kills was equal on both Monster Powers. By choosing the The Broken Blade-quest I was able to take the portal straight to CotA every time so I faced no other monsters that would ruin my Life Time Kills calculations.

    The gear drops were calculated trough looting them and then calculating them in my inventory, since it is practically impossible to count the items on the ground, especially on MP 10.

    I decided to collect data of 1000 white mob kills on both MPs. While this is certainly not a big enough sample to figure out accurate drop chances gear- and other drops, this does give a good idea of the effects of Bonus Items on high MPs.

    It is possible that there is difference in the relative gold and gear drops chances on different monsters. If this is the case, the data collected or the results concluded can’t be generalized to farming other areas. Personally I don’t believe there to be any significant differences between other ‘normal’ white mobs as to their relative chance to drop gold, gems, tomes etc. or gear.

    3. Data

    Here is the data I collected in a very simple format:

    Monster Power : 10
    White mobs killed: 2062
    Gear drops: 974
    Gear / Mob: 0,472

    Monster Power: 0
    White mobs killed: 2496
    Gear drops: 237
    Gear / Mon: 0,095

    As mentioned, the sample size is obviously not big enough to come up with accurate drop percentages. But using these numbers we can get quite a good general idea as to the differences between Monster Powers.

    4. Analysis&Results

    With the data we can calculate a lot of interesting things as to what’s the difference between a mob killed on MP x compared to similar mob killed on MP y (or 10 000 of each).

    For example:
    On average one needs to kill 4,97 times more mobs on MP 0 than on MP 10 to get the same amount of gear drops.
    79,9% of gear drops on MP 10 are bonus items.
    59,8% of gear drops on MP 10 are bonus items that ‘proc’ from drops other than gear.

    The bonus item chances are announced by Blizzard in the 2nd link of the introduction.
    These are as follows:

    TABLE 1: Bonus Item chance (%)

    Since we now know approximately what percentage of the MP 10 gear drops are caused by the Bonus Item system, we can make a simple comparison of Monster Powers: On average, how many mobs on MP x do we have to kill the get the same amount of gear drops as killing 1000 mobs on MP 0. With this table we can easily compare other MPs as well.

    Adding the effects of Magic Find complicates the calculations to some degree. The relative benefit of the increased MF on higher MP is affected by ones MF from other sources. In the table below the comparison is done with the assumption of 300 MF from Paragon Levels and gear but no Nephalem Valor stacks.

    The second table presents the following data for all MPs that should help you to calculate the MP with your own MF.
    1. The amount of kills that on average yields the same amount of gear drops as 1000 kills on MP 0
    2. The average amount of gear drops per 1000 white mob kills. (use this to calculate the relations for your given MF)
    3. A comparison of MPs relative to MP 10 with 300 base MF and no NV stacks.

    TABLE 2: Results

    5. Discussion

    I hope this was of some help to those of you who are interested in optimizing your farming efficiency. I plan to work on the presentation format in the coming days and any feedback on the issue is welcomed. Also please let me know of any possible math failures that I may have done.

    Happy killing!

    6. Updates & Future Plans

    *Update 08.04.2013*
    MP 0 Sample size increased from 1008 to 2496 kills. All calculations were adjusted accordingly, although the differences were very small so some rounded numbers did not even change. The old table is available here: https://dl.dropbox.c...opstaulukko.jpg

    *Update 20.04.2013*
    MP 10 Sample size roughly doubled. All calculations and the Results table were adjusted accordingly. Again the changes to percentages were minor at best.

    Future Plans:

    Keep increasing the sample size.
    Test the difference in amount of gear drops to Keep Depths Level 2 monsters.
    Write a guide how these numbers can be used for efficiency testing.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on [VIDEO] MP 10 Trash farming build - Keep Depths 2
    Quote from tarda

    Do not have any protective skills?

    No. I believe that gearing defensively enough, so that these are not needed, results in better overall performance.
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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    posted a message on [VIDEO] MP 10 Trash farming build - Keep Depths 2

    Been testing with some builds again and stumbled upon a really fun trash farming build for high MP and decided to share it with you all trough a video.

    It's not the easiest build to play, but maybe because of this I do find it extremely fun to play. Its very high paced and very efficient when you learn it and have the gear for it.

    I have yet to do very extensive testing with it, but in the video I'm getting ~70 white mob kills per minute, which is pretty much the average of what little testing I have done so far.

    The clip:


    The build:


    Possible variations:

    Drop Chant of Resonance for STI or OWE

    Drop Sweeping Wind and Chant of Resonance for Blazing Wrath and Guiding Light (My favorite build for co-op atm)

    Drop Fist of Thunder for something awesome (I plan to test this as I learn to use the EP + CS combo better. So far I'm not yet comfortable enough with the build without a spirit generator.)
    Posted in: Monk: The Inner Sanctuary
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