I made 275 gloves, and like maybe 5 were even a slight upgrade over the ones I currently use (Mediocre gloves with MF). The vast majority were like 20k+ dps loss.
Your gloves are mediocre but give you more than 20k dps? What are good gloves? What are great ones?
That doesn't mean the gloves I have are awesome, that just goes to show you how bad the ones I crafted were.
Current MF Gloves
195 Dex
7% CC
33% CD
17% MF
Dex is only 195/300, CD is only 33/50, CC is only 7/10, and there is no attack speed at all. These are mediocre gloves that I think I got on AH for a few thousand.
EDIT: Just looked on AH and a similar pair without MF can be bought for only 350k.
Got shoulders better than both can build VIle Wards I had for my WD/Monk. Rolled considerably better bracers than the can build Lacuni and even put a set of Innas Pants on my WD to cover move speed and still come out ahead.
23 million gold and you havent got a thing. Sorry but thats not a whole lot of gold and Im far from rich. As for that price of the gloves on the AH. You do realize that glove was 10 mil because crafting tanked the market on gloves.
Illusion...nope very possible and still cheaper than buying on the AH..imho of course.
This is the type of mentality that propagates the myth. A sack of lies about how awesome crafting is because you got these amazing items without even trying... Assuming this was even true, then you just got lucky.
You always see threads about the awesome gear some people get, but you never see the threads about the amazingly shitty gear people get.
I made 275 gloves, and like maybe 5 were even a slight upgrade over the ones I currently use. The vast majority were like 20k+ dps loss.
So other peoples anecdotal evidence are lies.
But your anecdotal evidence is proof that the system is broke.
Please stop posting.
I think my sample size was sufficiently large enough to make my evidence anything but anecdotal sir. Also as I pointed out before, an item from the AH can be sold back on the AH recuperating almost all cost. Even if you bought a 2B pair of gloves...
Got shoulders better than both can build VIle Wards I had for my WD/Monk. Rolled considerably better bracers than the can build Lacuni and even put a set of Innas Pants on my WD to cover move speed and still come out ahead.
23 million gold and you havent got a thing. Sorry but thats not a whole lot of gold and Im far from rich. As for that price of the gloves on the AH. You do realize that glove was 10 mil because crafting tanked the market on gloves.
Illusion...nope very possible and still cheaper than buying on the AH..imho of course.
This is the type of mentality that propagates the myth. A sack of lies about how awesome crafting is because you got these amazing items without even trying... Assuming this was even true, then you just got lucky.
You always see threads about the awesome gear some people get, but you never see the threads about the amazingly shitty gear people get.
I made 275 gloves, and like maybe 5 were even a slight upgrade over the ones I currently use (Mediocre gloves with MF). The vast majority were like 20k+ dps loss.
Thats what I have wasted thus far, and what do I have to show for it?
241 Dex
8.5% crit
41% crit dmg
On the AH right now, not even shopping around.
241 Dex
10% crit
44% CD
10 million gold, and I can sell it back when I get an upgrade, thus recuperating most if not all of the cost. In fact, I buy most of my gear with bids for much lower than the current AH price, and actually sell them back for a profit.
Ok, lets do some math.
There are like 31 stats, but only a handful are any good.
Best Stats
Mainstat + Vit
Crit chance
Crit damage
IAS
Average damage
Vitality
I primarily want an offensive amulet. I can stutter step and what not to avoid dmg, so thats not a problem for me.
The probability of getting an item with all 5 of the other stats is,
(6/30)*(5/29)*(4/28)*(3/27)*(2/26) = 1 in 23,751
An item with 4 good stats,
(6/30)*(5/29)*(4/28)*(3/27) = 1 in 1827
An item with 3 good stats,
(5/30)*(4/29)*(3/28) = 1 in 203
These are just figures from rolling the stats, the game rolls again to determine what magnitude the stat is.
It costs about 200,000 to make a single Dex Amulet.
The cost to get a 5 stat amulet,
200,000 * 23,751 = 4.75 billion
The cost to get a 4 stat amulet,
200,000 * 1827 = 365.4 million
The cost to get a 3 stat amulet,
200,000 * 203 = 40.6 million
Wow... did I make some kind of statistics mistake?!? WTF! This is even worse than I thought.
EDIT: This does assume the probabilities are the same, which they almost certainly arent, but I don't have that data. I am guessing things like Crit% actually has a higher roll % to offset these terrible numbers.
I have come to the conclusion that rolling anything good is near impossible, but there are so many people crafting so many items that it happens often enough to give people the illusion that its worth doing. Bravo Blizz Bravo.
You have the common disc skills followed by the 2 generators, and a few offensive skills.
EA
Sentry
Spike Trap
Cluster arrow kinda
And then the rest is crap.
Also note we are talking 1-2 runes per skill!
Thats 23 * 5 = 115 skills, but maybe 30 see any use at all?
In their current state,
Grenades suck.
Evasive fire sucks.
Multishot is inferior to Elemental arrow in every single way with the possible exception of generating disc.
Cluster arrow costs way more than trap and just doesn't hit hard enough. A mediocre skill, but only because the others are absolute shit.
Generator
Entangling with 4-target rune is very useful for kiting elites/ for cull the weak.
Grenade is for gaining for hatred for cluster arrow spec.
Some people use evasive fire 3-target rune.
Spender
Cluster is one of the most dps skills.
Sentry is also popular.
Multi-shot is also popular.
Strafe is good for low MP.
The builds you listed only exist on paper. No one uses them! And amongst the few that do get used there is only 1 maybe 2 useful runes.
2000 in main stat = x20 on your damage output
+30% attack speed = x1.3 on your damage output (WDs without infinite mana are exempt)
50% crit chance = x1.5 on your damage output (extra damage/effects might occur depending on crit effect triggers on passives and skills)
100% crit damage = x1.05 on your damage output (with default 5% crit chance)
Is getting 2000 in a main stat easy and cheap? YES!
Is getting +30% in attack speed easy and cheap? YES!
Is getting 50% in crit hit chance easy and cheap? YES!
Is getting 100% in crit damage stat easy and cheap? YES!
Is getting 2000 main, +30% attack speed, 50% crit chance and 300% crit damage at the same time easy and cheap? HELL NO!
Is getting from 2000 main stat to 3000 main stat easier then getting 2000 main stat, +30% crit chance and 165% crit damage? Nope.
If you have the stats 100 main stat, 50% crit chance, 500% crit damage, and find a super duper hidden legendary ring that gives you another 10% crit chance, and 100% crit damage will still suck more then a blue vendor ring that gives you +200 main stat...
It's a balance...
Lazy mans chart:
Edit: Had to fiddle a bit with the new google drive
Those stats you listed are all cheap together... One weapon will have nearly 100% crit dmg!
Cost is hardly the issue anyways.
Whats expensive is getting high dps, but not being a glass canon. Any item with +Vitality or +AR on it doubles, triples, or more in price. Even if its not much.
Just because Enigma was crap and was detrimental to the game in D2, doesn't mean we (they) should make the same mistake.
It isn't the 'same' mistake though, the issue with enigma was that 1 item was broken, the issue with CHC and CHD or OWE and single element resists and a few others are the synergy between the two 'things' which is a lot harder to detect (and probably unreasonable to expect them to find everything, that's what balance patches are for) when the testing population was considerable smaller than the playerbase, and from blue posts I've seen used randomly generated gear to simulate self found play rather than custom gear to simulate AH sourced items.
The further issue is that with the official auction houses there is a huge outcry when a nerf happens that affects something that people have spent real money on (or which they assign a value to) which fundamentally changes the equation when considering balance changes.
Blizzard are obviously aware of the problem as they buffed rubies considerably to try and give alternatives to emeralds and is still talk of changes to OWE.
Go back and read the whole thing after you pick up your jaw ( ). The OP feels that the prevalence of CC/CD limits gear choice and pigeonholes all classes and most builds into the same affixes and the same gear.
I'm confused on two things. Only one of which has to do with this. The whole idea of why people are pigeonholed is because they only accept the fast farming gear possible, which means just enough ehp to survive, and then DPS DPS DPS! If they nerf CHC/CHD, then something else will be the best, and everyone will focus on that. Correct? Is a better solution to be so all DPS stats (which, lets be honest, as long as this game is about farming item drops, it's going to be the same idea of just enough ehp to live, and then all damage) are so amazingly balanced that you can stack any of them and it would work? That sounds near impossible. Or is the complaint that it is just easier to do this with CHC/CHD?
The second thing that confuses me is that CHD is really only OPed if you get enough CHC (and base stats). Is it really that easy to get enough CHC to make CHD useful? Further, everyone seems to be saying +CHD vs anything stat, but that's not the issue. It's actually +CHC AND +CHD vs any other stat. This might not matter if it's actually easy to get +CHC up enough. I'm not sure, never had that much cash.
That is a viable argument IF it were the best by a small margin, but its a grand canyon.
Go back and read the whole thing after you pick up your jaw ( ). The OP feels that the prevalence of CC/CD limits gear choice and pigeonholes all classes and most builds into the same affixes and the same gear.
I have no doubts that we are "pigeon holed" into certain gear choices. However I still dont understand
None of that changes the fact that at 60 geared its by far the most dominant stat far surpassing any other in dps contribution. It needs to be nerfed! Blizz can either lower Crit dmg affixes. lower crit chance (though this makes +crit% skills stronger) or nerf both.
Can anyone explain why anyone would suggest a nerf to CHC / CHD, Because it make zero sense to me in a game where the sole idea after hitting level cap is to make your character as strong as possible. Nerfing CHC/CHD would obviously mean that your DPS would go down.
Because it pigeon holes everyone into the same gear and same specs. Especially weapons.
Balancing the game makes it more fun for everyone.
WW barbs want to keep things alive just long enough to retain Fury regeneration for WOTB).
You don't want to one-shot trash mobs, which is what I meant about going into high MP levels.
Then as he said you ramp up the difficulty.... If you can easily 1 shot mobs, then you should be doing that anyways, regardless of the spec/class. You won't be 1 shotting MP10 mobs.
What Loroese said. Plus, WDs stay away from IAS because it just makes mana consumption go through the roof. (It's something that wasn't obvious to me at first, but getting rid of IAS helped a lot).
That is ONE build out of the entire game thus far that I know of.
By getting rid of you mean by swapping it with an alternative dmg stat right?
Correct. There's just no point in dumping 17k + materials into an item that has next to no chance of even being worth 100k (or being equippable). It's a financial loser in every way imaginable for people looking to make some AH gold. It's an untenable situation for self-found people.
I would like to see the gold cost of these dropped to an outright-trivial amount (100-500g). They don't produce high-quality items, they shouldn't require any significant amount of gold, or materials, to craft.
If people can make money crafting then it isnt a gold sink. That was the old methodology anyways. So everything you made sucked donkey balls. The new patterns fix this issue though by making the items BoA.
I really think BoA should have been the norm anyways. People complained it was too much like wow, but is a huge AH overflowing with gear better?
0
Also, I am only looking at DPS stats.
0
RNG is overcome by sample size. Thats the whole foundation of stats.
0
That doesn't mean the gloves I have are awesome, that just goes to show you how bad the ones I crafted were.
Current MF Gloves
195 Dex
7% CC
33% CD
17% MF
Dex is only 195/300, CD is only 33/50, CC is only 7/10, and there is no attack speed at all. These are mediocre gloves that I think I got on AH for a few thousand.
EDIT: Just looked on AH and a similar pair without MF can be bought for only 350k.
0
I think my sample size was sufficiently large enough to make my evidence anything but anecdotal sir. Also as I pointed out before, an item from the AH can be sold back on the AH recuperating almost all cost. Even if you bought a 2B pair of gloves...
Crafting is a waste of gold and time.
0
This is the type of mentality that propagates the myth. A sack of lies about how awesome crafting is because you got these amazing items without even trying... Assuming this was even true, then you just got lucky.
You always see threads about the awesome gear some people get, but you never see the threads about the amazingly shitty gear people get.
I made 275 gloves, and like maybe 5 were even a slight upgrade over the ones I currently use (Mediocre gloves with MF). The vast majority were like 20k+ dps loss.
0
0
20 * Iridecent tear = 30,000 gold
5 tomes = 6500 gold
50,000 gold crafting cost
TOTAL: 86500 gold per glove
275 * 86500 = 23,787,500 gold
Thats what I have wasted thus far, and what do I have to show for it?
241 Dex
8.5% crit
41% crit dmg
On the AH right now, not even shopping around.
241 Dex
10% crit
44% CD
10 million gold, and I can sell it back when I get an upgrade, thus recuperating most if not all of the cost. In fact, I buy most of my gear with bids for much lower than the current AH price, and actually sell them back for a profit.
Ok, lets do some math.
There are like 31 stats, but only a handful are any good.
Best Stats
Mainstat + Vit
Crit chance
Crit damage
IAS
Average damage
Vitality
I primarily want an offensive amulet. I can stutter step and what not to avoid dmg, so thats not a problem for me.
The probability of getting an item with all 5 of the other stats is,
(6/30)*(5/29)*(4/28)*(3/27)*(2/26) = 1 in 23,751
An item with 4 good stats,
(6/30)*(5/29)*(4/28)*(3/27) = 1 in 1827
An item with 3 good stats,
(5/30)*(4/29)*(3/28) = 1 in 203
These are just figures from rolling the stats, the game rolls again to determine what magnitude the stat is.
It costs about 200,000 to make a single Dex Amulet.
The cost to get a 5 stat amulet,
200,000 * 23,751 = 4.75 billion
The cost to get a 4 stat amulet,
200,000 * 1827 = 365.4 million
The cost to get a 3 stat amulet,
200,000 * 203 = 40.6 million
Wow... did I make some kind of statistics mistake?!? WTF! This is even worse than I thought.
EDIT: This does assume the probabilities are the same, which they almost certainly arent, but I don't have that data. I am guessing things like Crit% actually has a higher roll % to offset these terrible numbers.
I have come to the conclusion that rolling anything good is near impossible, but there are so many people crafting so many items that it happens often enough to give people the illusion that its worth doing. Bravo Blizz Bravo.
0
http://diablo.somepa...ar/demon-hunter
You have the common disc skills followed by the 2 generators, and a few offensive skills.
EA
Sentry
Spike Trap
Cluster arrow kinda
And then the rest is crap.
Also note we are talking 1-2 runes per skill!
Thats 23 * 5 = 115 skills, but maybe 30 see any use at all?
0
Grenades suck.
Evasive fire sucks.
Multishot is inferior to Elemental arrow in every single way with the possible exception of generating disc.
Cluster arrow costs way more than trap and just doesn't hit hard enough. A mediocre skill, but only because the others are absolute shit.
The Strafe build is meh at best.
The builds you listed only exist on paper. No one uses them! And amongst the few that do get used there is only 1 maybe 2 useful runes.
0
Spender
Spike Trap - Echoing blast (maybe scatter)
Elemental Arrow - Ball lightning
Generators
Hungering Arrow - Devouring or Spray of Teeth
Bola Shot - The only skill with lots of good runes.
And thats pretty much it.... Everything else sucks in comparison. Not matter the build you have at least 1 of these abilities.
Where is the diversity?!?!
EDIT: I also like sentry, but I find it hard to fit it in my builds.
0
Those stats you listed are all cheap together... One weapon will have nearly 100% crit dmg!
Cost is hardly the issue anyways.
Whats expensive is getting high dps, but not being a glass canon. Any item with +Vitality or +AR on it doubles, triples, or more in price. Even if its not much.
What is OWE?
0
That is a viable argument IF it were the best by a small margin, but its a grand canyon.
Because it pigeon holes everyone into the same gear and same specs. Especially weapons.
Balancing the game makes it more fun for everyone.
0
Then as he said you ramp up the difficulty.... If you can easily 1 shot mobs, then you should be doing that anyways, regardless of the spec/class. You won't be 1 shotting MP10 mobs.
0
That is ONE build out of the entire game thus far that I know of.
By getting rid of you mean by swapping it with an alternative dmg stat right?
0
If people can make money crafting then it isnt a gold sink. That was the old methodology anyways. So everything you made sucked donkey balls. The new patterns fix this issue though by making the items BoA.
I really think BoA should have been the norm anyways. People complained it was too much like wow, but is a huge AH overflowing with gear better?