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More options can also be added for after p800 so main stat boosting isnt the only option.

Offensive can add:

% to Type damage

Defensive:

%life regen while standing in fire, poison, etc

Utiliy:

increased chance at mats dropping

+goblin spawn chance

Quote from Arydor»

Quote from undefined »

Stopped reading. I hope you mean with skill?

Nope.

Hypothetical leaderboard -- Grift 49 is "last place and a dude has 400 paragon is in that spot"

I am a pretty crappy player, I am paragon level 650 on seasons and I can do grift 50 because of paragons allow me to, am I not entitled to hold that "last place" even though the other guy is more skilled then me?

Made a thread on D3 forums http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/18300096222?page=1#0. Will report here.

It's gonna be long. TLDR on bottom

So many post regarding paragon keeps popping up on various forums across different site, all saying the same thing. Paragon power creep is to strong.

Wait...

Let me re-phrase that. Botters power creep is to strong. Yes. This is the main advocate I see in all the threads. About fair leader boards or paragon being to strong.

A fair leader board is the one who gets the highest legitly, regardless of paragon level or skill. That's the way the leader board is designed, and in my opinion the way it should be.

So why is this topic so hot? It brings botters into the spotlight, and hey! I hate botters, i need my pitfork and get this paragon level out of the way so botting becomes useless!

Now, from my understanding, the way the game is designed;
- You level to 70
- Grind
- ????
- Profit (gears and some paragons)
- Grind
- Grind
- PARAGON5!!!

But what happens when you gear plateau, and what the majority of the forums threads regarding paragon are about is removing paragon, what do?

How do you become stronger when there is no way to get stronger. Food for thought.

So... Botting. Why does it affect you? It... actually doesn't. It only affects very few players so there is no reason for blizzard to remove paragons.

The ones who who compete at the top of the leader boards are probably fairly skilled players with a greater understanding of the game. So lets take 2 players.

Player Bot - Bots paragon 1000, probably has near BiS
Player Legit - Grinds paragon 800, probably has near BiS

Who do you think of these 2 players will be higher on the leader board? The one who actually played the game, understands the game should be higher.

Now to go even deeper. A huge thread on the diablofans I read, a leader board player and pretty popular guy since he streams probably and since he knows his stuff. makes videos and theorycrafts and stuff was gaining lot of following on this issue. So what's his problem? Is he worried a casual player botting is going to take his top leader board score because he is botting?

Wait... What? That's what all the paragon hate is for? A noob botting his way to number 1?

And that right there is the REAL problem with the paragon hate train.

Top contenders botting to beat other top contenders. When all that does matter is the power creep designed by the paragon system.

So you want to REMOVE/REVAMP an entire system for... (a safe number) 100 playersout of the 10 000+ who play D3.

Please.

TLDR;

The hate train for paragons is due to popular top leader board players expressing their hate for the power creep saying paragon > skill. This is simply untrue. Skilled players who are top contenders for the leader boards botting are the real problem.

- Player Noob bot(1000 paragons) CANNOT beat Player Skilled Legit(800 paragon)

Revamping an entire system for less than 100 people(realisticly) is far from ideal and a different approach should be taken.

Perhaps more content can be added. like a G-rift style dungeon that removes paragon levels can be implemented but offers little reward?

Quote from MeatHeadMikhail»

Thanks for sharing. I get the issue, but it's not really relevant. We know top leaderboard spots are generally:

15+ hours/day

Thus, super high paragon/stats

THUD or some other exploit other people at the top are using (otherwise not at the top)

Been around enough high level players to verify the above. Casual players will never have a chance at high leaderboard placement, sorry, that's just not what the system is designed for.

I agree paragon is a bit lackluster (it's just stats, not customization), but the 1% of 1% of 1% who reach P2000+, well, they deserve it. It's a grind game after all and they're grinding it out their entire lives, for whatever reason appeals to them.

I'll be lucky to hit P800 combined after this season, and I'm perfectly ok with that.

I agree. I'm getting tired of seeing post of people crying about paragon and how boring it is. It's intended to be an infinite scaling reward for time investment. The power creep should be real.

Players at 2000 paragon *should* have near perfect gear and with cube introduction it will be more common.

So once you reach p800 like OP suggest, what do?

I'm not suprised. Diablo has been a shit show since the begining. Why are they pretending it's not up to blizzard standards... They cleary released it half assed. D3 pvp will be half ass no matter how long we wait. Screw D3

I'm not suprised d3 is number 5. It's been the most anticipated game ever. What a let down it was though.

Also, SC2!

Jay Wilson...

What a dink. He doesn't even know how to deign a game. Look at all the fail D3 had.

Also, woot SC2!

Glad to see they are trying to improve the game, but it's far to late for me. Unless they do some drastic changes, I don't think I can ever like D3 again.

Also, SC2:HotS. Waited couple years for this! Woot woot!