Probably won't see a WD reach that DPS because of mana cost restrictions. All the super high DPS WD's have insane AS, which means bears go for about 3s then OOM. They can use sacrifice on dogs to get back to full twice in a fight, then done... so about 9-10s worth of bears DPS. That just won't cut it. None of our gear has things like "mana on crit" or some such like all other characters have.
The best we can do is a no mana build (like mine; Insect#1546) and just go for it. Fastest would be a 90-120s I'm guessing.
So, I couldn't quite get the Cloud of Bats build to work: 1) no ranged DPS and 2) Still OOM, just slower. So I scrapped it and looked for other ways to get high DPS with range and not run out of mana.
Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Pierce the Veil, and Fetish Sycophants
To make this work you need about 120-130K unbuffed DPS, ~1500 LoH or some LoH with LS. Also, you need attack speed gear.
Basically, manitou plus locusts do most of the DPS - it's not bursty like bears, but you can sustain the DPS. Dogs hold the line for spamming firebomb (which with the AoE does a lot of DPS and heals you like crazy if you have LS). Finally, because of AS and spamming firebomb, you get up 7-8 fetishes per elite. They further hold the line/soak damage, but also do 20% damage a hit, so when you have 7-8 out it's like having a Gargantuan's DPS (yes they run in and out, so DPS is sporadic that's why 7-8 are needed to get to 100% more damage being put out).
I like this build for a few reasons: 1) Rarely OOM - must accidently do 2 Locusts or 2 Manitous to run out, 2) Pick up radius is a thing of the past, 3) High sustained DPS, 4) Hardly take ranged hits anymore cause all the pets get in the way, 4) You can run this build on any MP and still do just fine (no noticeable farming time differences in MP 1-5).
Yes, as I stated in OP, this build is intended for MP9-10 and nothing else simply because the mana efficiency is better. AC or Bears are best for MP0-7 or 8.
At MP10, you're not trying to kill 2-3 packs at a time, just 1, so this becomes a more viable option as you have both stated.
Yes, this build has limitations, and it comes down to play style.
Do you like kiting and waiting for DPS? Use Acid Cloud (DoT, Plus ranged... so you move more)
Do you like to stand and deliver DPS? Use Bats/Bears
Anyway, something to try out. I think this is a "tweeners" build. Something people can use just to do MP10 if they don't have high mana regen gear (which Bears and Cloud needs). Once they get that gear, they can use those builds.
It was certainly effective in the middle of large trash groups. However, like Grabbler said, ranged mobs were a little rough...god forbid you ran into Wasps in Act II. :-P I understand darts can take care of them and perhaps I just need to give the build a little more time to grow on me.
On the plus side, it was definitely mana efficient. I enjoyed it for sure.
Glad you did! It's something different and viable I think.
Killing elite mobs 1 by 1 with poison darts on high MP takes so long... But maybe this build can be good for coop. For tanking...) And leaving range mobs to the others.
Yes, I've done some coop with a cyclone monk - absolute rape. Sucks them in to us and I'm just firebatting away... everything melts so fast.
So, basic premise - get high DPS with moderate life-steal (I have 2.9%), stand and deliver the DPS while mobs flock to you.
Thats pretty much what I do. Only with AC (slow burn) / Rain of Toads and LOH instead of life steal.
You said AC did not work for you. Do bats deal that much more damage? I mean effectivly delivered damage, not tooltip numbers.
No, the damage is not higher, but I find mana to be less of a concern and it's less "kitey" so DPS time is maximized. Maybe with some more LoH (looking to get some once I can change out Uhkapian for a good String of Skulls, so I can change Pox to a Unity and I want a Ouroboros) it will be better. With this, if I have 3-4 mobs around me it's pretty much always constant DPS and I steal 5-6K every 1.5s.
Going for this build without TotD and not using a Skorn with 6% life steal seems like a waste. Am i missing something?
Plus Cloud of bats has absolutely terrible radius... Even with bears range mobs are a pain. And here we got many times worse radius plus you have to stand in place for several seconds to maximize the damage. It'll be total hell killing range elites.
I have +19 PuR on my armor. TotD is not required. If I could afford a Skorn with 6% LS, I would... They are currently about 500 million gold.
Yes the radius is bad, but see my reply to the other person. And yes, ranged mob suck, but dart works to burn them down quickly when required. I find this build to be best in Act I because of the number of purely melee mobs.
So, I was playing around in MP10 for bit and trying to find a build that would let me do constant high DPS. I tried Bears build (works for me up through MP7 because they die before mana is gone), acid cloud, and other main-stream builds. Nothing worked because of mana problems or the elites would have some affix that was just unbearable (no pun intended).
So, I was watching my WW barb friends just roflstomp MP10 and I thought about how I might do that. Thus, I landed on this build:
Main - Darts/Splinters
Secondary - Firebats/Cloud of Bats
1 - Spirit Walk/Honored Guest
2 - Soul Harvest/Siphon
3 - Confusion/Paranoia
4 - BBV/Rain Dance (could also use Slam Dance if you have ~75+ mana regen)
So, with the life-steal and DPS of the firebats, plus constant regen (use Voodoo when completely empty), I could just stand in anything and life-steal everything to keep full HP. The constant DPS beat the bears and acid cloud because bats are so much cheaper and I never had to kite anything... just stand and kill, move a tiny bit when you need health globes.
So, basic premise - get high DPS with moderate life-steal (I have 2.9%), stand and deliver the DPS while mobs flock to you.
Only problems I had were knockback mobs - keeps resetting your fire-bats damage and arcane if 2-3 beats hit at once. Reflect is a nightmare, always, but no biggy with some LoH.
Note: Couldn't use links cause of 10-post rule, boo!
Changed up the Build a bit (Copied from Post Later in this Thread):
So, I couldn't quite get the Cloud of Bats build to work: 1) no ranged DPS and 2) Still OOM, just slower. So I scrapped it and looked for other ways to get high DPS with range and not run out of mana.
Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Pierce the Veil, and Fetish Sycophants
To make this work you need about 120-130K unbuffed DPS, ~1500 LoH or some LoH with LS. Also, you need attack speed gear.
Basically, manitou plus locusts do most of the DPS - it's not bursty like bears, but you can sustain the DPS. Dogs hold the line for spamming firebomb (which with the AoE does a lot of DPS and heals you like crazy if you have LS). Finally, because of AS and spamming firebomb, you get up 7-8 fetishes per elite. They further hold the line/soak damage, but also do 20% damage a hit, so when you have 7-8 out it's like having a Gargantuan's DPS (yes they run in and out, so DPS is sporadic that's why 7-8 are needed to get to 100% more damage being put out).
I like this build for a few reasons: 1) Rarely OOM - must accidently do 2 Locusts or 2 Manitous to run out, 2) Pick up radius is a thing of the past, 3) High sustained DPS, 4) Hardly take ranged hits anymore cause all the pets get in the way, 4) You can run this build on any MP and still do just fine (no noticeable farming time differences in MP 1-5).
Try it out! I definitely think you could choose between Soul Vessel and Jungle Fort though - just depends on what you like.
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The best we can do is a no mana build (like mine; Insect#1546) and just go for it. Fastest would be a 90-120s I'm guessing.
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So, try this:
LC - Firebomb + Ghost Bomb
RC - Locust Swarm + Searing Locusts
1 - Zombie Dogs + Leeching Beasts
2 - Spirit Walk + Healing Journey
3 - Soul Harvest + Vengeful Spirit
4 - Spirit Barrage + Manitou
Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Pierce the Veil, and Fetish Sycophants
To make this work you need about 120-130K unbuffed DPS, ~1500 LoH or some LoH with LS. Also, you need attack speed gear.
Basically, manitou plus locusts do most of the DPS - it's not bursty like bears, but you can sustain the DPS. Dogs hold the line for spamming firebomb (which with the AoE does a lot of DPS and heals you like crazy if you have LS). Finally, because of AS and spamming firebomb, you get up 7-8 fetishes per elite. They further hold the line/soak damage, but also do 20% damage a hit, so when you have 7-8 out it's like having a Gargantuan's DPS (yes they run in and out, so DPS is sporadic that's why 7-8 are needed to get to 100% more damage being put out).
I like this build for a few reasons: 1) Rarely OOM - must accidently do 2 Locusts or 2 Manitous to run out, 2) Pick up radius is a thing of the past, 3) High sustained DPS, 4) Hardly take ranged hits anymore cause all the pets get in the way, 4) You can run this build on any MP and still do just fine (no noticeable farming time differences in MP 1-5).
Try it out!
Profile: Insect#1546
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At MP10, you're not trying to kill 2-3 packs at a time, just 1, so this becomes a more viable option as you have both stated.
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Do you like kiting and waiting for DPS? Use Acid Cloud (DoT, Plus ranged... so you move more)
Do you like to stand and deliver DPS? Use Bats/Bears
Anyway, something to try out. I think this is a "tweeners" build. Something people can use just to do MP10 if they don't have high mana regen gear (which Bears and Cloud needs). Once they get that gear, they can use those builds.
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Glad you did! It's something different and viable I think.
Yes, I've done some coop with a cyclone monk - absolute rape. Sucks them in to us and I'm just firebatting away... everything melts so fast.
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No, the damage is not higher, but I find mana to be less of a concern and it's less "kitey" so DPS time is maximized. Maybe with some more LoH (looking to get some once I can change out Uhkapian for a good String of Skulls, so I can change Pox to a Unity and I want a Ouroboros) it will be better. With this, if I have 3-4 mobs around me it's pretty much always constant DPS and I steal 5-6K every 1.5s.
I have +19 PuR on my armor. TotD is not required. If I could afford a Skorn with 6% LS, I would... They are currently about 500 million gold.
Yes the radius is bad, but see my reply to the other person. And yes, ranged mob suck, but dart works to burn them down quickly when required. I find this build to be best in Act I because of the number of purely melee mobs.
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Also changed out Soul Harvest Siphon for Soul Harvest Vengeful Spirit
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Insect#1546
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Main - Darts/Splinters
Secondary - Firebats/Cloud of Bats
1 - Spirit Walk/Honored Guest
2 - Soul Harvest/Siphon
3 - Confusion/Paranoia
4 - BBV/Rain Dance (could also use Slam Dance if you have ~75+ mana regen)
Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Gruesome Feast, Grave Injustice
So, with the life-steal and DPS of the firebats, plus constant regen (use Voodoo when completely empty), I could just stand in anything and life-steal everything to keep full HP. The constant DPS beat the bears and acid cloud because bats are so much cheaper and I never had to kite anything... just stand and kill, move a tiny bit when you need health globes.
So, basic premise - get high DPS with moderate life-steal (I have 2.9%), stand and deliver the DPS while mobs flock to you.
Only problems I had were knockback mobs - keeps resetting your fire-bats damage and arcane if 2-3 beats hit at once. Reflect is a nightmare, always, but no biggy with some LoH.
Note: Couldn't use links cause of 10-post rule, boo!
Changed up the Build a bit (Copied from Post Later in this Thread):
So, I couldn't quite get the Cloud of Bats build to work: 1) no ranged DPS and 2) Still OOM, just slower. So I scrapped it and looked for other ways to get high DPS with range and not run out of mana.
So, try this:
LC - Firebomb + Ghost Bomb
RC - Locust Swarm + Searing Locusts
1 - Zombie Dogs + Leeching Beasts
2 - Spirit Walk + Healing Journey
3 - Soul Harvest + Vengeful Spirit
4 - Spirit Barrage + Manitou
Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Pierce the Veil, and Fetish Sycophants
To make this work you need about 120-130K unbuffed DPS, ~1500 LoH or some LoH with LS. Also, you need attack speed gear.
Basically, manitou plus locusts do most of the DPS - it's not bursty like bears, but you can sustain the DPS. Dogs hold the line for spamming firebomb (which with the AoE does a lot of DPS and heals you like crazy if you have LS). Finally, because of AS and spamming firebomb, you get up 7-8 fetishes per elite. They further hold the line/soak damage, but also do 20% damage a hit, so when you have 7-8 out it's like having a Gargantuan's DPS (yes they run in and out, so DPS is sporadic that's why 7-8 are needed to get to 100% more damage being put out).
I like this build for a few reasons: 1) Rarely OOM - must accidently do 2 Locusts or 2 Manitous to run out, 2) Pick up radius is a thing of the past, 3) High sustained DPS, 4) Hardly take ranged hits anymore cause all the pets get in the way, 4) You can run this build on any MP and still do just fine (no noticeable farming time differences in MP 1-5).
Try it out! I definitely think you could choose between Soul Vessel and Jungle Fort though - just depends on what you like.
Profile: Insect#1546