Mara 6 is NOT fine the way it is. It's SUPER OP, here is the break down;Quote from Shinna1989
M6 is fine the way it is. Its not like equip M6, find Bombardier´s and grab a decent 2h X-Bow from stash -> Auto finish GR35+ in time. The real issue is how bad blizzard designed greater rifts.
You're going to use, Cluster Arrow/MultiShot/Elemental Arrow/Wolf Companion/Ballistics/Cull of the Weak/Custom Engineering.
With Mara 6 and a RuckSack, you get 5 turrets, that shoot all three spenders at the same time, with no cooldown or resource limit.
So what's that mean in terms of raw numbers?
Maelstrom is 550% weapon damage plus the 5 rockets per volley, each rocket dealing 450% weapon damage + 100% Weapon damage from Ballistics.
That's 1,100% weapon damage, and maestrom procs Cull of the Weak for an additional 20% damage, and then you have Wolf companion that gives you 30% more damage ontop of the cull of the weak.
x 5, since you have five sentries, and that's 5,500% weapon damage x 20% x 30% = 8,580% weapon damage PER VOLLEY and this is just using ONE spender, the turrets use all 3 and they don't alternate, they fire all three every volley.
Then we have Frost Arrow, which does 330 x up to 10 [since it hits up to ten targets each] for 3,300% weapon damage per shot, x 20% x 30% = 5,148% weapon damage, x 5 for each turret = potentially 25,740% weapon damage per volley, ON TOP of the 8,580% weapon damage from maelstrom.
So JUST using frost arrow and Maelstrom with Mara 6 and a rucksack, we're already outputting 34,320% weapon damage PER SHOT.
Now add multi shot which can hit everyone on the screen for 360% weapon damage + 300% weapon damage + 100% weapon damage from ballistics * 3 since it shoots 3 rockets. This is 1560% weapon damage x 20% x 30% = 2433.6% weapon damage per volley.
This takes Mara 6 + Rucksack up to 36,753.6% weapon damage PER VOLLEY, NOT counting +% to sentry damage, +% to cold damage, or +% to fire damage, not counting +% damage against elites, or the +% pet damage you get from enforcer, or the +% attack speed you get from Tasker and Theos.
By the time you add all that in, you're in the realm of ~45,000% - 60,000% weapon damage PER VOLLEY. This doesn't even count ANY of the damage that the actual army of 8 pets is doing. So you have the ~45,000% - 60,000% weapon damage x almost 2 a second + actual companion damage, and we all know they hit for millions too.
So the problem is 100% the 6 piece bonus on Mara combined with the fact that the demon hunter has piss poor hatred regen and all their good spenders are inefficient. Without Mara 6, you can't shoot more than 3 cluster arrows in succession without being empty. With mara 6, you can shoot 5 at once without spending any resource.
Is the discrepancy getting clear yet? The Demon Hunter is in the WORST place of all the classes, because without the over powered Mara set, it's useless piss poor weak. They made the Demon Hunter viable through one set of gear, they didn't do any skill tuning. What they need to do, is disable Mara 6, buff the DH skills until it can do GR 40 and then come up with a new 6 piece that is supplementary and not OP. Or just remove the Turrets cast your spenders out right, move the "you gain all companions" to 6, and add something less powerful for the 4 piece.
As it stands now, nothing can even come close to Mara 6, nothing will ever come close to Mara 6 unless they are even more ridiculous than Mara 6, because if you take the turrets away [say for the new multishot set they are working on] then multi shot has to do triple output x 5, in order to compete, so the 6 piece would have to say "Increase Multishot Damage by 72,000% weapon damage."
That's absurd, we all know it, the problem is -- that's how much damage people with Mara 6 are doing in ONE volley.
Another fix for it, is to make the Sentries cast your spenders with reduced damage, like 60% less damage this doesn't for instance just subtract 60 from 330, we take frost arrow at 330% and deduct 60%, we don't just do 330 - 60 = 270% from the sentry, we do 330 x 60% = 198, 330 - 198 = 132% weapon damage. And to cap it at 2 spenders instead of 3. This would force people to actually play the game, rather than drop turrets and hide in the other room, it would also allow other builds to be viable provided they had support pieces for those builds. So going forward, this gives the devs the room to create new sets and Legendary items that would allow other builds to compete, but until there are new items in the game, if you applied my "massive" nerf to Mara 6, it'd STILL be hands down leagues and ladders better than any other build in the game, simply because you have 5 extra demon hunters in your pocket at all times [sic; turrets].
It's clear that the spenders AND generators on DH hit for too little, so the only way for them to output enough damage to climb greater rifts, is to give them all of that on unlimited resource x 5. The solution should be to make it so you can do that much damage out of just the DH without 5 turrets.
Mara 6 is lazy design. Run Mara 6 next to Natalya's w/ shadows grasp -- now this is an ideal combination, because nats is 4 piece and Shadows is 4 piece, which lets you wear them both, which gives the natalya's setup better toughness [that it would need if it didn't have the companion army] but the damage output is TENS OF THOUSANDS of percent lower, and it shouldn't be.
Natalya's + Shadows should = Grift 40, but it doesn't, you'd be lucky to hit 26, and Torment 6 is = to Grift 25.
Blizzard thinks the way to solve this problem is to make Nat's have a 6 piece bonus that is also ridiculously strong, but the problem with that is, it renders the shadows grasp set useless[since you can't wear 5/3] which is required to get the toughness to survive at the higher grift levels when you don't have companion tanks and turrets that do damage WHILE you kite. You will have to stop and DPS which is going to garauntee enemies will DPS you, so without the extra toughness [35% damage reduction] and LoH [32,185] and the Slow [80%] + Movespeed [30%] and with the Discipline reduction + Nightstalker you get 100% uptime on Shadow power, you get from shadows grasp, you're going to be dead in the water.
Mara 6 needs to be redesigned, the DH needs it's resource per damage ratios balanced, needs it's generators to deal adequate damage and then Natalya's 4 piece needs to be buffed, rather than JUST reduce the cool down, it should increase the damage output or give you access to all the runes for every cast, like Rasha's meteors.
The way the game is balanced now is T6 can be done in Legendary Gear, but Grifts and T6 on Farm status requires Sets. I'm cool with this curve, but that means there needs to be many, many, many, more sets for each class to support build diversity, but if the set is = to 70,000% stronger, the gap is WAY too large, it just means the character class itself is weak.
The crusaders have a similar problem right now, Ak's vs Roland's, Roland's sucks right now, because having Perma Akarat's Champion = such a huge EDPS boost + a super Etoughness boost [running prophet takes me from 11m toughness to 24 million add a monk to the party and I'm at 42 million] that the measly double attack speed from rolands set can't even come close to competing. Blizzard has acknowledged this and said that their probably will be a support piece added for Rolands, but they already have 2, they have the Piru Mirella and the Golden Flense + rolands is a 6 piece. If Rolands was a 4 piece, they could get away with adding more support pieces -- but as it stands, not really sure where they think people can equip this "Support" piece.
Combine the insane damage output of Mara 6 x 2 with 2 other support characters and we're full circle back to "Support Monks with 0 damage and explosive palm that did 92% of the enemies health in damage on kill." Because nobody else has even close to the damage output of Mara 6, this is why every 4 player group has 2 DH's and 2 Supports, because the supports can add even more flat damage buffs to those demon hunters,
I.E. Monks with Overawe + 16% more damage taken from all sources, or Crusaders with Shield Glare for +20% more damage taken from all sources, which is WAY MORE than +16% damage, since the damage they take is based on your actual damage hits at the END of the calculation, instead of at the beginning.
So, if you have a crusader, run it with some people running Mara 6 who can grift at 35+, don't even fight, just run around and shield glare. When you shield glare, you'll notice that everything almost instantly explodes with the exception of guardians, but since they have so much life, you get to see how much damage stacking the glare does for them, as the life bar will drain at a much Accelerated rate.
This is why all 4 party that get 42+ have monks or crusaders, because they provide raw toughness bonuses + damage through enemy debuffs. It isn't because they are also doing "Sick" damage. There is just nothing that can compete with that composition... why? Because DH are WAAAAAY over powered, but ONLY because of Mara 6, take that away and they are DRASTICALLY under powered, and that's the real problem in a nut shell.
Demon Hunters are super weak and cannot do damage or stay alive without Mara 6. Without Mara 6, they are the worst class in the game, with Mara 6 they are the best class in the game, there is too much swing from one set of gear, this is broken.
You can't fix it without nerfing the set. If you buff the skill damage and leave the set alone, it'll do exponentially more damage in curve. If you don't buff the skills, Mara's will ALWAYS be the only option. So this isn't a case of "Buff everyone else don't nerf us!" because buffing demonhunter builds that don't use maras will only make maras better than it is now, buffing other classes would then just create this problem on 4 other classes making the game essentially boil down to "Get x Set, win the game, use any other set, lose the game."
If you buff all the sets in the game to Mara levels, then you just end up with gear explosion at 70 -- My character is "Broken" until I get "X" set, and then my character is godly. There is no smooth progression of power this way unless they made these sets extremely, extremely rare, but then what happens is -- players get frustrated because they played for 300 hours and didn't get it, and homeboy rolled a new character and has only played him for 60 hours and he's winning the ladder.
So they all have to be common enough, which means that the classes themselves have to all be strong, and the sets have to amplify certain builds a small amount, rather than a massive amount, this way the stats on the gear matter more rather than the set bonus automatically added superficial power that is magnitudes stronger than the stats on your gear in value.
In other words, the absolutely only way to fix this problem is to Nerf Mara 6, and buff the DH to compensate. This will change how it's played but not actually "Nerf" anybody. You'll be achieving the same power, but most of it will be from your skills and gear stats, rather than most of it being from the set bonus. Set bonus is supposed to be a bonus, not the base. Right now Mara 6 is more than a bonus.