Builds change throughout the season anyway, and top leaderboard spot will only matter at season End push when your top power is gained through XP farm, only build that matters til then is best Supp xp build LAWL
So atm you can't just copy the same build someone high on leaderboards has? If so that's awesome imo.
Lol, the builds the top leaderboards are using is Cains, Borns, Leorics, exp paragon farm. Always makes your char the strongest.
Then on Diablofans.com front page you have the list of cookie cutter builds in the cookie cutter game that will get your Char a leaderboard spot ONLY if you farmed enough GR Paragon speeds. That's if you choose to play solo, which is a waste of time anyway
Umm, no. XP gear results in a huge damage loss, always. XP gear is also greatly nerfed in 2.4 - Its fine solo, but it has practically no purpose in MP. The average is still there, so if you have 200% bonus xp, and in a 2 player rift, your partner has no bonus XP, then both players will have 100%, and THEN you take 1/10th of that and thats your actual bonus XP for multiplayer, which will be 10% bonus XP, in exchange for a HUGE hit to damage.Currently, most builds can go with a Leorics Crown because there are very few competing slots for gear there. In 2.4, blizzard has added a HUGE number of supporting legendaries to virtually ALL builds, so Leorics crown now competes with at least 2 items that will result in either a huge defensive boost (In the range of 50% less damage taken), or a huge offensive boost (25% extra damage done generally).
Using 3 piece Cains/Borns is trash in a group in 2.4. Using Hellfire/Leorics is trash in a group in 2.4. There are SO many additional options that if you use those pieces while grouping, you are essentially dragging the entire group down with NO extra benefit.
Of course, in TX, high-paragon players may continue to use a few +XP gear as their defensive/offensive stats are already so high that things die with one hit even if you use Gems of Ease, so if you are already doing 130% overkill in most situations and you can stand in the middle of the arcane sentry without worrying about dieing, you might as well drop your toughness/damage in half and pick up 10% extra xp bonus (Because in a group, thats all you are gonna get). But speed-running will now be stacking the damage, and speed running GR 65 in 2-3 minutes, rather then stacking XP to run GR 45 in 2-3 minutes.
lol, no. Damage is increasing 50-100% in new patch, making group easier to use XP items instead of tank or dmg items. Just watch
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
but you wouldn't get higher without xp gear. only zDPS supports wear that xp gear. as long as they can have their support legendaries AND the xp equip, there will be no reason not to wear xp equip. it doesn't matter if it only gives 5 or 50%. the value only matters to those who are not using it, since they'll always lose out on xp. it just doesn't feel so punishing with 5%
It does matter if it's 5% or 50%, that statement asssumes nothing can be done with alternatives, or that there are no viable opportunity costs. So many options open up when you remove the mandatory requirement for exp gear. Borns (2) + Cains (2) + Hellfire / Leorics (1-2) + mandatory RoRG (1) open up, which is about 5 - 7 item slots, not to mention the Helm Gem Socket and Weapon Socket. Think of what you can accomplish with this. Supports will be able to add additional utility and toughness to their builds or even do some kind of hybrid support / dps setup. If each support's non-exp gear will help the party do current GRs more than 5% quicker or make one higher GR possible it will be just as good or better than exp gear.
Also, on a different note, I don't see why 4 DPS would ever be viable. Supports offer so much more than exp to the party as others pointed out. Creating mass alone speeds up rifts dramatically
Obviously you never push end game speeds either..... Borns/Cains/Hellfire ring and leorics HELP the group by making supp more tanky to keep group up. They are going NOWHERE, dead game is dead
Cains/Hellfire/Leorics provide 0 benefit to defense that other items would not. Borns does provide 15% life with the 2 set, but that is a very, very small bonus.
Now, in 2.4, we are having 2 very large changes - Only 1/10th of XP bonuses is shared, mob health whenever you are in 1-3 player difficulties have been reduced (To the point that 3 players will be reaching 2 or so GRs higher than 4 players).
The XP bonus change murdered and buried XP zdps. You will no longer use Hellfire/Leorics in serious progression, and Cain's is now a more personal item you sub in for farming to somewhat increase the amount of XP you get.
As for zdps, the primary characteristic of zdps is that they forgo the main set damage bonus in exchange for multiple support pieces. In the era of CC zdps, zdps, rather then grabbing 6/4 piece, would instead grab as many CC pieces as possible. With XP zdps, they would forgo set bonuses entirely and instead grab as many +xp pieces as possible, with a few group support legs (Strongarm, Pride).
I predict that in 2.4, you will not see a SINGLE player at the top leaderboards without their 6 piece, which automatically makes them non-zdps. Instead, you will have certain players in that group who sacrifice, say, 20-30% of their damage to pick up a few group support abilities. Thus, you'll have 2 players doing about 36% of the groups dps each, and one player doing 28% but providing a good 40% or so extra toughness/healing. I also predict that the 4 player leaderboard will be behind the 3 player leaderboard, so people seriously pushing greater rifts will push 3 player GRs, but for xp and such you'll go with 4 player speed runs 20 or so lvls behind your max possible GR lvl.
All wrong, damage is done easy as hell in D3 especially in 2.4 with all of the damage buffs and set buffs, everyone will be wearing XP gear but dedicated DPS, same as always. Easy to tell
The +XP stats and bonuses will be almost pointless in 2.4. The level of XP you will get from them will in no way compete with using gear with better stats that allows you to push a higher GRIFT -which will yield comparatively more XP than pushing a lower GRIFT with the XP gear. The only possible exception is if your best gear happens to already have +XP on it, which probably means that you should be on the lookout for an eventual upgrade that makes better use of that secondary stat.
As already stated by others, support builds will probably still be a thing, but not to provide +XP, but rather to provide CC; buffs and debuffs, ultimately resulting in faster and/or higher GRIFT runs. Efficient XP farming is a ratio of how much you earn vs how long it takes you to earn it. With XP bonuses being nerfed into the ground, Blizzard has publicly stated the rationale for the XP nerf is to end the current meta of endless XP buffed grinding, as it makes players feel they are forced to do it if they want to compete on paragon level progress.
^^ watch this post is 100% wrong and everyone will still be using Borns/Cains/Hellfire/Leorics
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
The question you need to ask yourself is that is the 5% xp worth it if you can just as easily run 1+ GR levels higher with a different gem, rings, etc...
Because if you can only run one GR higher, then you get more XP than the 5%
but you wouldn't get higher without xp gear. only zDPS supports wear that xp gear. as long as they can have their support legendaries AND the xp equip, there will be no reason not to wear xp equip. it doesn't matter if it only gives 5 or 50%. the value only matters to those who are not using it, since they'll always lose out on xp. it just doesn't feel so punishing with 5%
It does matter if it's 5% or 50%, that statement asssumes nothing can be done with alternatives, or that there are no viable opportunity costs. So many options open up when you remove the mandatory requirement for exp gear. Borns (2) + Cains (2) + Hellfire / Leorics (1-2) + mandatory RoRG (1) open up, which is about 5 - 7 item slots, not to mention the Helm Gem Socket and Weapon Socket. Think of what you can accomplish with this. Supports will be able to add additional utility and toughness to their builds or even do some kind of hybrid support / dps setup. If each support's non-exp gear will help the party do current GRs more than 5% quicker or make one higher GR possible it will be just as good or better than exp gear.
Also, on a different note, I don't see why 4 DPS would ever be viable. Supports offer so much more than exp to the party as others pointed out. Creating mass alone speeds up rifts dramatically
Obviously you never push end game speeds either..... Borns/Cains/Hellfire ring and leorics HELP the group by making supp more tanky to keep group up. They are going NOWHERE, dead game is dead
They should give us an editor like "Warcraft3", with script and so on.
Would be a good way to introduce PVP. Allow some dedicated fans to figure out how to balance it. Would be a nice way to add to the endgame without having to worry about constant dev time after the initial editor was out. Honestly, after seeing DoTA come from WC3, I'm surprised they haven't let used at least a map editor in D3 yet. Item editor might be a bit more complicated, if the items can cross into non-custom games.
d3 map editor would allow for some of the most amazing DotA type minigames ever
Maybe they'll still be used but for lower GRs because you don't need optimized gear to do it?
Basically if gear will help clear rifts faster or higher rifts, then xp gear will not be very valuable.
If gear will not help clear rifts faster or do higher rifts, then xp gear will still be useful.
The only case I see this for is supports doing a much lower GR than they can normally support, or for super farmed DPSers doing speed rifts and have zero need for the purple gem in helm.
Gear always helped people do higher GRs, and that hasn't stopped groups from using only 1 DPS and 3 XP SUPP to farm GRs this entire season
Its going to be useless at lvl 70 anyways with the 10% reduction ie: cains will give 5% more exp at 70
5% for xp farmers earning over a trillion XP/day means hundreds of billions of XP over the course of days. Again, the changes are relative. So long as xp bonuses exist on gear relative to gear with no bonuses, the % values are equally attractive
The sets and char are getting more powerfull every season, and that means that we can spam higher GR than 2.3 or S4, and that means that the nerf or exp doesn`t matter.
Right ?
Wrong. XP sets will matter more as more damage can be done by DPS chars while supp can buff the group
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Sounds to me like you have trouble with basic logic. When the xp gear bonus is nerfed to the level that is being detailed for patch 2.4 it is the GR level you can push effectively, not the xp bonus on your gear that is going to dictate how much xp you get per time spent getting it. A stat with +Xp on it is therefore not as valuable as a stat that offres more toughness or dps. If you can't understand the ratiionale in that, I guess you may as well just join the flat earth society.
IDK if you ever played D3, sounds like not? But the higher GR lvl the more XP you get....by a lot. GR 70s and 80s give hundreds of billions and trillions of xp/hr. More than any bounty or rift. Changing the values of xp gear wont matter as long as they exist they will be required by farmers.
Amazing. You really do not get it at all. I'm sure this guy has played D3. The question, however, should be if you have ever played school.
It has even been explained several times how xp gear won't be worth it several times but you just don't get it.
This coming from someone paragon 300 with no endgame experience....
People need to take a step back before this loses its focus.
Hear is a summary:
1- Season 4, week 1, several players already Para 800
2- Why? Because XP gear, two players ran Zdps or support and they would simply grind GR's for multiplicative XP.
3- Season 5, no xp gear will be beneficial at 70.
4- Effect? Players will not be Para 800 within a few days because they will not be gaining multiplicative XP gains off that XP gear.
End Result, we are likely going to see Paragon levels that compare to season 3 when you factor the XP gear removal but addition of a higher power level.
Answer to OP's post:
Everything, players will do what they did in season 1, 2, and 3. They will farm rifts, bounties, and GR to push.
all wrong. xp and power increases every season. gear gets better every season. more chinaman going for paragon 3100+ every season blowing away even the nerdiest American and euro botters and farmers. just watch. its called REAPER OF SOU:LS for a reason, LOL
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Sounds to me like you have trouble with basic logic. When the xp gear bonus is nerfed to the level that is being detailed for patch 2.4 it is the GR level you can push effectively, not the xp bonus on your gear that is going to dictate how much xp you get per time spent getting it. A stat with +Xp on it is therefore not as valuable as a stat that offres more toughness or dps. If you can't understand the ratiionale in that, I guess you may as well just join the flat earth society.
IDK if you ever played D3, sounds like not? But the higher GR lvl the more XP you get....by a lot. GR 70s and 80s give hundreds of billions and trillions of xp/hr. More than any bounty or rift. Changing the values of xp gear wont matter as long as they exist they will be required by farmers.
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Builds change throughout the season anyway, and top leaderboard spot will only matter at season End push when your top power is gained through XP farm, only build that matters til then is best Supp xp build LAWL
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Then on Diablofans.com front page you have the list of cookie cutter builds in the cookie cutter game that will get your Char a leaderboard spot ONLY if you farmed enough GR Paragon speeds. That's if you choose to play solo, which is a waste of time anyway
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welcome adventurer
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wanna bet?
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Wrong. XP sets will matter more as more damage can be done by DPS chars while supp can buff the group
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This coming from someone paragon 300 with no endgame experience....
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