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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from Indimix

    I love how people commit fallacies all the time.

    In this case, Shaggy, you are justifying that Diablo 3 is ok because D2 and D1 had no endgame. That, is a logical fallacy.

    He has a point. We're talking about expectations that were transferred from one title to the next. The "point" of Diablo has always been farming, gear, trades and PvP. That is the endgame. There need not be some constantly fresh MMO material to wage through.

    No one asked for constantly fresh, and the lovers of D3 are the ones bringing up D2, not us. I am talking specifically about D3, and am not using D2 as a measuring stick.

    Alls I want to see is more things to do, more variation when I log in. The game is about items, and farming......correct. I just want different ways to do that. Right now, there are very little options for farming and getting gear......farming the exact same route endlessly. This doesnt look like it will change this patch, once you have your recipes, which wont take long.

    So, you can say D2 was a great game, so D3 doesnt have to improve on its design.......I really dont agree, disagree, or care.

    I am making my opinions about D3, and my own feelings of boredom, and why the game is boring, and why I dont feel the "end-game" is much of an end-game.

    I have no desire to run WOW style raids or events, I just want more challenge, with greater rewards for the increased challenge, and several different options to Farm, Itemize, Trade, and ......Play.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Litheum

    Quote from Tsukishima

    Satisfied with the changes. Blizzard continues to impress me with their constant improving of d3. The launch was terrible and full of incompetence but the recovery operation since has exceeded my expectations. I doubt any other game would have redesigned their endgame paradigm after launch like d3 did for inferno.

    In order to fix and "end-game paradigm" you have to actually have an end-game.
    I don't consider paragon levels, Inferno, or Ubers to be end-game content.

    If you do, and you are happy with it, then I completely agree.

    If I were to follow that logic, D2 had absolutely no endgame outside of ladder and hardcore (which, mind you, not everyone played). Offline toons didn't even get the ladder option and many online people never bothered with it.

    I guess we should probably berate Dave Brevik too because his vision of Diablo had no endgame either - leveling to 99 and doing Ubers doesn't count. We should also burn all copies of D1 as well. It was a terrible game because it didn't even have ladders! It had absolutely no endgame at all.

    The whole Diablo series is a pile of shit based on your "endgame" criteria.

    I never mentioned D2, or D1, or said those games were perfect.

    The basis of my argument is about D3, nothing else. My opinion is running the exact same route endlessly without dying and with no challenge is not what I consider end-game content to consist of. When you do raise the challenge, it offers no reward, it is actually punishing for most players, because the time:reward ratio gets worse, not better.

    I don't use D2, a very old game with very outdated mechanics/design as a metric for anything.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from Tsukishima

    Satisfied with the changes. Blizzard continues to impress me with their constant improving of d3. The launch was terrible and full of incompetence but the recovery operation since has exceeded my expectations. I doubt any other game would have redesigned their endgame paradigm after launch like d3 did for inferno.

    In order to fix and "end-game paradigm" you have to actually have an end-game.
    I don't consider paragon levels, Inferno, or Ubers to be end-game content.

    If you do, and you are happy with it, then I completely agree.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ruby upgrade but not topaz?
    Dude, do you think Blizzard is made of money???

    Do you understand how much development time and resources it would cost to change 2 whole gems.....IN THE SAME PATCH?
    You guys are so spoiled, you're lucky Blizzard listens to us, and is changing any of the gems! You should be kissing their feet, and thanking the gods Blizzard has graced us with this wonderful blessing, when they barely made any money off us, or the RMAH.

    Asking for 2 gems to be fixed in one patch is just being greedy. If we are lucky, Blizzard may consider changing Topaz later in time, but don't expect such massive changes from Blizzard, they have a very small team, and a very small monthly revenue to work with, it would take hours of work for a programmer to change the stats on all the tiers of Topaz's. Where would they find the time and resources for that???

    Blizzard is making changes to Rubies out of the goodness of their heart, with no benefit to them at all, I heard the development team is actually volunteering their free time to make this patch. We should feel so incredibly lucky these underpayed, overworked developers are nice enough to make any changes to the game. Blizzard is such a generous and caring company to be making these changes with no benefit to their company at all!!

    We are so blessed by the great and wonderful Blizzard. Stop complaining, and just like the game! It's not that hard, just like it, don't discuss on these forums what you don't like, you played the game 100s of hours, so therefore, you must like the game, NOW!

    Topaz's are fine.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from TheDemokin

    This is why i still respect Blizzard - they are the only game creator out there that actively listens to the community and actually makes improvements, albeit not the fastest and not everything at once, but they do.

    Well, I strongly disagree.I think Blizzard is quite out-of-tune with what the community wants. They continually show this by some of the remarks they make in their forum posts, and social outlets. The notorious "some people like to get items from killing monsters" Just seemed really strange coming from a company who is supposedly listening to the community.

    Then the recent dueling change, Only beig able to access it from Act 1. This is such an obvious design flaw, the community has voiced loudly that they want to duel from anywhere.....they also said they want to duel while grouped with friends, to give them somethig to do while they wait for friends etc. This has been a request of much of the community since before the game even launched......

    The response? Saying they realize this is a good idea and want to implement it......eventually. The fact they needed us to tell them an act 1 portal is a bad idea to begin with, then to say they may fix it......eventually?

    I'm sorry, but that is a perfect example of why I think Jay and his team have vey different views on the game than I do.....and much of the community. I'm not jut saying it is so, I have given examples here, and in multiple threads on this and the official forum. I understand they have made changes, and they did help o improve the game, but each time (other than paragon levels) it was so poorly designed, and so far off of what the community asked for, it seems like they are almost making changes to be orignal, intentionally avoiding using any ideas the community suggests. Stubborn, or not willing to take ideas from other people/games, or maybe they just don't agree with the community.......but something doesnt feel right, when each time they make a change it is so far removed from anything the community is suggesting, and it does not address core issues stated all over the forums.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Path of Exile lightyears ahead of D3??
    Quote from Crashhh1

    Quote from Litheum

    While I agree POE looks really good, and seems to be in-line with my views on what an ARPG should be, They are not killing Blizzard.

    Nothing is killing Blizzard, at least not any time soon. They have a massive fanbase, they make incredible games, they have some of the best talent in the industry. They will continue to be a great company, and D3 will continue to be a powerhouse. Making a post about XX game killing Blizzard has been made for every major MMO, ARPG and Strat game ever made since WOW launched, none have succeeded.

    You make yourself look real silly suggesting anything is going to kill any of Blizzards games.
    But I do agree so far that POE is putting a lot of effort into pleasing Diablo/ARPG fans, making it the game a lot of us want. I know I am going to be playing it, and it's doubtful I will ever return to D3 with the changes they are making not fixing core issues.
    While there was a time when I would agree with you about most of what you said, I feel like that time is becoming a thing of the past.
    Mists of pandaria and diablo 3 have been really bad for the company in my opinion.. worse than anything before.

    I considered WOTLK bad for blizz at the time, but in hindsight, it was great compared to mists of pandaria and diablo 3. These have been total trainwrecks. The company is fresh out of ideas to make new and innovative games.
    The other problem is.. what will save them? When WoW lost some popularity, blizzard had SC2 and diablo 3 over the horizon, and that made fans stay around because of so much speculation.
    SC2 is stale now, and not very innovative, and diablo 3 is a disaster IMO. This, with MoP being underwheliming, means only titan's release could save them. That's too far away. They may lose MANY users now.

    I can't say for sure I'm right, but I feel like this year has been very bad for blizzard. I believe the only reason they're succeeding at the moment is that other big names are staying console. Competition is hard for small companies. They rely on small usersbases and word of mouth advertisement.

    Well, subscriptions havent dipped at all on WOW, and D3 was the fastest selling PC game of all-time. So it may "appear" it was a bad year for Blizzard, but appearances don't mean anything.

    Granted, the money coming in might be from a younger/casual playerbase, but that doesnt matter much. The company will be around a very long time, and continue to dominate it's 3 genres. I am not sayin I think Blizzard hasnt alienated some of its older fanbase....I'm just saying POE, or any other game isnt going to kill Blizzard.

    When you're dealing with game companies, the only thing that matters is total sales. Blizzard will not be affected much by POE. When they release an expansion for D3, everyone playing POE will be at the gamestore, ready to buy their copy. Including the "haters".
    Posted in: Other Games
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from overneathe

    Ok, Blizzard made billions from the RMAH, they're rolling in cash and laughing at the community. 1.0.7 sux. Carry on. :)

    Don't need to be a smartass.

    Make your point (what everit is) about the actual sales Blizzard is making, and we'll talk about it.
    You're flame-baiting by asking a question you know we don't have any way of knowing the answer, then trolling/flaming us when we give you an answer. If you want to make a point about revenue, make your point. Don't ask a baited question, than be snide about the answer you know is impossible to give.

    Not sure what you were tring to accomplish with your question, but it didnt work.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Path of Exile lightyears ahead of D3??
    While I agree POE looks really good, and seems to be in-line with my views on what an ARPG should be, They are not killing Blizzard.

    Nothing is killing Blizzard, at least not any time soon. They have a massive fanbase, they make incredible games, they have some of the best talent in the industry. They will continue to be a great company, and D3 will continue to be a powerhouse. Making a post about XX game killing Blizzard has been made for every major MMO, ARPG and Strat game ever made since WOW launched, none have succeeded.

    You make yourself look real silly suggesting anything is going to kill any of Blizzards games.
    But I do agree so far that POE is putting a lot of effort into pleasing Diablo/ARPG fans, making it the game a lot of us want. I know I am going to be playing it, and it's doubtful I will ever return to D3 with the changes they are making not fixing core issues.
    Posted in: Other Games
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from overneathe

    Quote from Litheum

    Quote from overneathe

    Let's get something out of the way. How much money do you guys think are Blizzard getting out of the RMAH?

    With the fastest selling PC game of all time, and items for sale that effect in-game power, I bet it is more than any other non-MMO game on the market. It would have to be.....

    Actually, let me restate that, I bet it is more than any other non-subscription game on the market.....to include MMOs.

    I would never consider buying cosmetic items on GW2 or DOTA2.....but I have bought an item in D3.
    I'm sure if you compare, they make more than those games.

    Don't bet, tell me an estimation. People say "no one plays this game anymore", yet the RMAH profits are "more than any other non-subscription game on the market.....to include MMOs".

    Give me an estimation.

    It's completely impossible to even guess, with absolutely no information on current users over the life of the game, or how much people are spending on the RMAH.

    I guess your point is to say we are not allowed to make conversation about continued revenue since we don't have numbers? We don't know exactly how much money Blizzard actually makes off the game, so we have no right to state we deserve better changes and a better game?

    Otherwise, not sure why you are so dead-set on getting an answer when you know it's impossible to know.

    Anyway, wether they make $5 or $5 billion, I don't feel like they are putting in the time and effort I have seen from other games with real-money features. And they definately are not living up to my expectations for any Blizzard game. If you need more clarification on that, The best way to describe it I have already discussed all over these forums. Here's an example:

    Quote from Litheum


    At the same time.....this is Diablo, this is Blizzard, there is an expectation. Blizzard makes a lot of money off us.....not only through box sales....but RMAH, and A LOT of Diablo players are Blizzard players.....they also play SC and WOW. (many played and bought warcraft, all 3 diablo's, both SCs, and subscribed to WOW for 4-5 years+) They will buy future games from Blizzard as well. I feel like I have paid into Blizzard as a company quite well, I have gotten many family and friends to join into Blizzard too, my mom has 2 WOW accounts, several of my EQ friends are now all about D3 and WOW, this is more then just a game I bought for 60 bucks and hoped to get 100 hours out of.

    I think many players on these forums are similar to me, an easy way to see this is looking on the official Diablo forums, and see how many of those players have WOW accounts. And those are just the ones who havent switched their tags to Diablo. I can understand why someone who only plays D3 can think we are unfair and too judging, but that is because you feel you got your money worth. You spent your $60 bucks, got a few 100 hours of play and are happy.

    I feel like I bought into Blizzard though, as many of us here do. I payed for 2 WOW accounts for over 5 years, have brought many people to their games, will continue to buy from them, and will play Titan (whatever it actually is) when it releases.

    I don't feel like Blizzard has put in the same time and effort into D3 as they have in the past on every other game I have paid for. I would gladly pay a subscription for D3, I will continue to pay Blizzard for the great games they make, but D3 is falling short for me.

    And D3 continues to let me down, the fixes they make are not fixing the core issue of the loot system being broke, and not having a item sink. PVP is now 8 months late (yes, 8 months, it WAS originally supposed to ship with D3, just because they delayed it before luanch doesnt make it less late now) and then after 8 months of waiting, and being teased about this big PVP patch, we get "nevermind, its not ready, here, have duels....another feature we should have had at launch".

    It may seem like we are too critical, and we expect too much from Blizzard, but when you peel back the onion, there is more to our arguments than just wanting immediate satisfaction or being from the "entitled generation" or whatever smart title you want to label me. I have good reason to feel let down by Blizzard, and D3. I have good reason to want something different, and I feel we ARE entitled to more from Blizzard, as a long time dedicated supporter of all their games.

    Hopefully that helps you understand where we are coming from.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Improving Rune System
    Quote from Sagathiest

    Quote from Litheum

    Quote from Sagathiest

    Quote from Litheum

    Quote from Zera

    just scratch the game and start over or add another skill system more like the original d2 than then further modified the spells

    I have no issues with the skill system, and definately dont think D2s was better.

    The best way to describe it is, in order for you to know what spells you like you need to be able to try them. So any systemt that forces you to choose a spell, be locked into it, before ever even using it is not fun to me.....at all. Even if you can reset them, it's an annoyance to try something, see it fails, then jump through hoops to try something else. D2 was a great system for it's time. Games have evolved since then, and that type of system is obsolete now.


    I like to experiment too, but once i have picked a skill that i like i want to be able to feel like i can invest in it and improve it to make it better. In diablo 3 i cant.

    The Diablo 3 skill system is not really that innovative its allot like guildwars 1.

    Id like to see a skill system which is somwhere between what d3 offers and what D2 had. Finding skills as loot would be great too.

    I hear you, and understand. However, I disagree. Only because, for instance, right now on my Wizard I run 3 very different builds.....an all-out Uber CM wizard build, an all-out farm Archon build, and a CM build using living lightning for farming MP5-8. If I had to invest in certain runes, and those skills were much better than others, I would be gimping myself when using my other builds.

    Also, within each of these 3 builds I have several variations, as a simple example, my Archon build for MP1 is different than my Archon build for MP3/4. Now, of course if I had certain CM builds specialized, the other skills would still be usable, but they would be weaker. I just don't like that design anymore, many years ago it was fun to me, but it is just an outdated design. You can use the argument that a lot of games still do this, but honestly I think it's time they let go of the past also, and allow the type of freedom WOW and D3 now offer.

    For me, it's like this......I don't have a lot of time to play the game. I am OK with not having the best gear, or seeing Ubers on MP10. I understand that because I dont invest the same time and money into it, so I may not have a 400k dps character ever. But, to not let me use all the skills and runes at their full capacity because I dont invest 1000+ hrs into the game to me is an archaic and unnecessary punishment.

    I'm not saying I should get everything for nothing, but I have about 600 hours played on my Wizard, and 60+ on each of the other 4 60s. I put in my time to level each one, my wiz has about 180k unbuffed, my alts all have about 60-80k. I think thats fair. locking me out of certain spells after all theat time is not fair, IMO.

    The only way I would not mind specializing runes is if D3 completely changed their design to where leveling and gearing a 60 to 200k+ dps didnt take 700+hours, and they encouraged having multiple characters of the same class.

    Right now, the design strongly discourage having more than 1 main, and more than 1 of each class, so it's only reasonable each of those classes have access to all of their classes skills.

    Why not a freely re-distributable point system? the other thing with some kind of point system is that it moves away from complete gear dependence which is another thing that makes skills very uninteresting atm. There's no way to improve them beyond getting better gear right now.

    Only issue I would have with that is it would make the item-hunt less meaningful. When choosing between 300 Vit, or 300 Strength, it wouldnt matter. You pick the item for the other stats, and adjust your stats to compensate. I guess that wouldnt be that big of a deal, but with a game so heavily dependant on gear for stats, I don't see much reason to adjusting your own.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from overneathe

    Let's get something out of the way. How much money do you guys think are Blizzard getting out of the RMAH?

    With the fastest selling PC game of all time, and items for sale that effect in-game power, I bet it is more than any other non-MMO game on the market. It would have to be.....

    Actually, let me restate that, I bet it is more than any other non-subscription game on the market.....to include MMOs.

    I would never consider buying cosmetic items on GW2 or DOTA2.....but I have bought an item in D3.
    I'm sure if you compare, they make more than those games.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from IgnatiusReilly

    Or perhaps a complete re-visioning of items in this game. The whole linear primary stat focus design leaves little room for item creativity, and if they want this game to last 10 years, they can't just keep adding items every few months with 100 more main stat and expect people to remain interested.

    Not only this, but I'm not sure why people are acting like crafting improvements were some sort of additional content Blizzard was nice enough to add.

    Crafting was horribly implemented, they never attempted to fix it, then we finally add something to Crafting and it comes in the form of a temporary new content in the ay of farming recipes? Temporary because once you get the recipe, you will be back to farming A3 again. And no one seemed to notice that crafting hasnt changed. So they ignore the issue again, and implement a BOA temporary farm? And if the Hellfire ring is any indication, the chances of these crafted items being better than what we are wearing now is miniscule. The only reason people are wearing hellfires is the XP gain. Take that away, and farming Ubers is highly inefficient.

    And behind all this, the current broken implementation of the crafting system stays untouched.
    I have no hope left for the D3 crew. They are ridiculously stubborn.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Patch 1.0.7 Preview
    Quote from KalikooJack

    Quote from sssdrawr

    Why are D3 patches always so small ?

    LOL, you serious? A lots of changes and new content for free. Diablo 3 patches beats every patch in any game if you ask me.

    From the release, this game has improved a lot, and I have no doupts it will improve even more in the future. Thanks Bliz! :)
    Its not perfect yet, sure. But what game is perfect from the start? Especially a game like D3, which requires a lot of balancing, you cant know for sure is some feature gonna work as intented.

    Anyway, looking forward to the patch! :)

    You must not play a lot of other CP games.......

    Your statement is true, for the 80-90s. But today, there are a ton of CP games that constant improvements and patches. Even when there is no real-money involved. Blizzard is making revenue every month from this game with the RMAH, and as such, should be putting in the time and effort that is expected with any game made in todays market with a real-money feature.

    You're right though, their content pacthes are a lot better than.....Mario Brothers ever had!
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from gran0ls

    Well i impressed by the patch in way, that they still working on the game. I mean, right now it feels like subscription based mmo, since in about every patch blizz add some content. I wonder how long will this going.

    You must not play too many games with real-money store/commodity sales. Their are plenty of games that continue to provide content when they include some form of real-money transactions. Even PS3/Xbox games get steady content updates with map packs, cosmetic items, etc.

    I'm not sure why people are acting like D3 should recieve no changes when we are steadily giving them money through the RMAH. It is very, very common in todays industry to continually improve games, and provide content.....many times even without a commodity store. But when a game includes any sort of real-money investment, even when it is only cosmetic, I think it is expected to get steady patches and content.

    Especially when the intitial product fell so short of gamers expectations.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Attitude Towards Diablo 3: Better or Worse Since Day 1? (Poll)
    The game has gotten better, but my attitude towards the game has progressively worsened since launch.

    The patch that brought Ubers and legendary imporvements improved my attitude quite a bit, as I thought those changes were in line with how I feel the game should be headed. However, the painfully slow patch cycle, and the steady realization that Blizzard just does not think D3 is failing in the areas I think it is, has made me quite irritated and frustrated with Blizzard and D3.

    The new patch notes left quite a sour taste in my mouth, because I don't think they are addressing any of the core issues in the game. I think Blizzard just has a different idea of what a good ARPG is than I do. To me, the game should be designed around the actual item hunt, but instead it is based around grinding gold, and using the AH. None of the changes have addressed the fact that end-game content consists of running A3 endlessly, at low MPs, in order to gain gold to play the AH. That is not what I envisioned for D3, or any ARPG.

    Luckily, the farther along Path of Exiles gets in its development, and the further away D3 gets from what I think an ARPG should be, the easier it is for me to let go of D3 and commit fully to POE.

    At this point, I have lost hope in Blizzard, and at the same time gaining a lot of anticipation and excitement for POE.
    I'm not trying to be the guy who bashes Blizz and declares POE is going to ruin Blizz or anything, because thats just not true, Blizzard will always make incredible games and have a massive fan-base. But for me, POE is looking better and better the farther way D3 gets from my values in an ARPG.

    Edit: I chose "Already bored, and moved on"
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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