I never do bosses. I never pick up items below level 63 other than jewelry and uniques. I don't pick up plans other than Exalted Grand or legendary. I don't pick up off-hands or 2h weapons other than bows/crossbows. I ignore all blues, gems, tomes, and potions. At below 5 NV, I even ignore goblins.
This is key, as far as I understand it. Taking the method of starting at the checkpoint just before Azmodan and working backward to high-value waypoints appears to be far and away the superior method. Once you have that basic template down, there's little to be done aside from accelerating the rate at which you kill elites, trash, and up your movement speed. I never took the extreme position of not picking up ilvl 61+ rares (although I have ignored blues and misc junk like gems and tomes for a while), but I don't actually grind enough for such a hair-splitting efficiency move to matter. I put in 1-2 runs of act3 (usually just 1) per night a couple nights a week and that is why i'm still plvl 25. :/
Actually I'm finding some surprising things. For example my Stonefort and Keep lv 1 exp is pretty bad, 15-18 mill / hour. But I'm getting 30+ in Arreat lv 1, a map most farmers ignore. And the reason you want to start in Core is that it's a short zone with at least one pack, usually two - you want to stack up in these quick zones, then do the longer ones, which have more available exp, with a full 5stack. I'll probably post my data later tonight in the general forum, but it's looking like my runs will go Core -> Keep 3 -> Tower Damned 1 -> Arreat 1 + 2 -> Fields of Slaughter -> Rakkis south.
ps - to the person who doesn't pick up offhands, why? They can be worth a ton just like anything else. Granted, the lower demand means they tend to sell slower, but still.
Hey guys, I really got this exp bug now and I'm compiling some data on exp and exp/hour. Once I get 5 samples from every act 3 map which I considered worth the time I'm going to post the data -- would that data be best posted in a reply in this thread, or in a new thread so that more people might see it?
I'm doing alkaizers route + depth 1 + both stonfront maps, that is 25-28min run for me. This route give me 15-17mil, so in total about 40-42mil/hour.
I'm a WD with 141k dps(without PtV)/800-850all res and 44k hp, just run with Acid cloud, 1-2 shots and dead mobs. Bears for elites.
But still i feel like slowpoke. Is there is some level 65+ Paragon, whats your mil/hr. Tnx
How do you do both stonefort maps, assuming you're not starting at the first quest of act 3?
I just ran a few numbers and I'm getting on average about 15 million exp per hour.
It seems pretty low to me, I think Alkaizer was getting 50-60 toward the end. Granted his gear kicked my gear's ass, and barb =/= WD.
Lately my route has been "The Second Heart" quest - build up my stacks in stonefort and keep 3, then do keep 1, then the quest through to killing Azmodan (who yields about 300k xp with 5x NV, not bad). Doing the famed "Alkaizer" route doesn't really boost my xp / hour much, and jeez it's boring, same 5 maps over and over.
I'm using the "Spirit Bears" build which another poster has provided us with so much excellent information on, and it feels fast compared to anything else I've done - its just that I've got the speed bug now and more is never enough. Link to the build guide: http://www.diablofan...-farming-build/
Edit: Just realized that given the time it takes, bosses really aren't good xp / hour, which is probably why more advanced players don't bother. Skipping them should boost my numbers a bit. Including the time it takes to run in from the entrance to each boss, and for Cydaea, the time it takes to zone to Core of Arreat after killing her - all running that I wouldn't be doing if I skipped them - Cydaea provided me with ~8m xp/hour, and Azmodan ~10m - much lower than just running maps.
Edit 2: @ Chonaire, can you link profile? Gear is a huge part of kill speed, it's helpful to know what gear you have.
It happens from time to time, but shouldn't be an issue if you have decent enough gear for the act you're in. If you're a glass cannon, well, sorry to hear it
Think about it in real-world terms: You want a Lamborghini (you know you do). Why do you want it? Primarily because not everyone has one - this makes it a status symbol. People who want better loot don't seem to understand that better loot for them means better loot for everyone else, and that their standing won't improve if gear does. The poster who claimed that everyone who disagrees with the OP is stupid is a perfect example of how childish this mindset is.
Childish is wanting a car because if makes you feel 'cool' (improve your status/standing). Also, I think that people who really like cars would disagree with you. One likes a particular car because it is THAT car, and not because it is rare (it might not even be). People who like the Jaguar E-Type wouldn't stop liking it if more people had it; they like it because of how it looks, how it sounds, how it drives, etc.
I want better loot because better loot is more fun to play with; I don't give a rat's ass if the guy next to me also has that good loot. You're basically worried about loss of e-peen if more people get good loot, because you won't be 'special' any more.
Your naivete about the human mindset is charming =)
I have no epeen to speak of, I'm broke. I'm waiting on a few things to sell so I can afford a gem upgrade.
I just understand the basics of economics and inflation. That's all. I'm not even saying I'm some kind of expert with a degree, just that I understand the basics. That's more than most posters in this thread can say.
Thinking that better loot will improve their gold acquisition is as silly as thinking that we can fix our economic crisis by printing more money. Sometimes I wonder what the average age is here.
1) If you never get loot worth selling, you're either killing extremely slowly (ask in class forum for build & gear advice), or you're not recognizing good rares. If you vendor something worth a lot, that's your fault, not Blizzard's
2) If better gear dropped more often, good gear would be worth nothing. Everyone would have the best gear available. That happened in D2 LoD. People became obsessed with "perfect" uniques (legendaries), since uniques were so common everyone had them. So you'd get something with 148 str (out of a possible 150) and work your way up to a perfect 150. This was one reason LoD sucked so bad and classic was better.
Think about it in real-world terms: You want a Lamborghini (you know you do). Why do you want it? Primarily because not everyone has one - this makes it a status symbol. People who want better loot don't seem to understand that better loot for them means better loot for everyone else, and that their standing won't improve if gear does. The poster who claimed that everyone who disagrees with the OP is stupid is a perfect example of how childish this mindset is.
Well, the fact that the majority of people are playing it as a single player game (Blizz confirmed this) would speak otherwise, but regardless, the problem remains. I don't believe you need an AH in a multi-player game, and it poses a real problem for a game that is all about farming.
Blizzard has confirmed that the majority of people play in single player mode, not that they play it as a single player game. I play exclusively single player mode, and yet I greatly enjoy the multiplayer aspect of the economy. I think a lot of other people feel the same way.
The problem is that multiplayer in this game is done very poorly. It's limited to 4 players, which is horrible. Further it's linked by quest, forcing you to play directly with other players.
I felt that D2 multiplayer was great, as it allowed players to choose their level of sociability. You could join an 8 player game and solo stuff, just enjoying reading the chat and the harder monsters + more loot that came from being in a full game. Or you could join full diablo run games (or baal runs for those who enjoyed LoD - I thought it sucked and always played classic). Or anything in between.
The point is, the level of sociability was up to the player to decide. Lately, Blizzard is forcing the issue on players. In WoW you are now forced to join a guild - it's part of why I quit that game. It's due to a big deal they made a while back with another company that refuses to let people decide how sociable they want to be - Facebook. (Oh god is it wonderful to watch their stock die ^_^)
I suppose my point is that the drops aren't garbage in and of themselves; they are garbage because you can buy their equivalent for peanuts on the AH. If that were not the case the drop rates would probably be fine.
EDIT:...
Actually, that seems to contradict my earlier statement a bit, doesn't it :P. Ok, so while I do believe that the Ah (specifically, the RMAH, which is Blizzard's recurring revenue model for D3) affects the game's drop rates, I also believe that the perceived problem of too many garbage drops is a direct result of a centralized mechanism for buying and selling items, i.e., the AH.
Did you play D2? Any time people get together around a common resource (loot, in this case), we start trading it. And any time we trade it, we look for a 'standard candle', something whose worth is relatively stable and allows us to pay, and sell for, a more precise amount vs. the resource we're going crazy over. This is how economies get started and it is unavoidable. In Diablo 2 we used SoJs as currency.
If we didn't have the AH we'd have to sit around trading as in D2. Join a "Trading" game, or make one of your own, and sit around for minutes or hours trying to barter. It didn't work well because with only 7 other players to trade with (max), someone was unlikely to want to buy or sell anything in particular.
In fact, the situation was so bad that d2jsp formed to help with it, and the guy who founded that site is now rich.
In short, if you think this game could function without an AH, you're wrong. History proves it.
I believe they're arcane, yes. But if you play their game, at best, you'll be frustrated and it will take longer than it has to. Instead, kite them a bit, which will take them through your tornadoes and group them up. Once they're grouped up, WW through them dropping more tornadoes and repeat the process. It kills them pretty quickly. This goes for all ranged/caster types which, as you noted, are very annoying.
I envy the internet speeds in Japan & S.Korea, as well as parts of Europe. Unfortunately it's really just a function of population density, and it's lower in the US making it more costly to install high speed infrastructure. I do have 60Mb down / 10 up, but I pay $60 a month for it, and it's less than reliable as I mentioned
That's not true, you decided to take his POV to the extreme. Where did he say that he wants to get the best loot in 15 minutes? There is a middleground between "99% of drops are garbage" (current state of the game) and "all drops are awesome.
Flat out, the AH was the motivation behind the crap drops, and it was a bad call. I don't care what the devs have said in the past, it is logically impossible to believe that the AH has no affect on how they have balanced item drops.
What I said was stupid, so I edited it out. Sorry about that.
It does seem like the biggest issue people have with this game is that they want a single player experience when the majority of players want the online multiplayer experience of diablo. Diablo really isn't a single player game, and what's more, there are thousands of great single player games out there. My friend's been playing Skyrim lately and keeps telling me about how good it is.
Purchasing Diablo 3 and then complaining about things that are a result of its orientation as a multiplayer game strikes me as stalking into Burger King, demanding they sell you a pizza, and refusing to accept their answer of "Sir, there's a Pizza Hut next door, if you want pizza you should go there."
In short, people who want a single player game and bought Diablo 3 should learn from their mistake, and go purchase a single player game. At least they can sell a few things on the RMAH and make back what they paid for this game, you can't say the same about most other games.
If you find one item worth putting on the ah in 12 hours of gameplay, the problem may be a few things:
1) you're not recognizing good rares when you see them, and are vendoring/smashing hundreds of thousands, possibly millions worth of gear. The best way to understand what's good for a class is to play it at 60, but if you don't have the time, spend a bit of time reading their class forums. Understand their popular builds and what gear is good for them.
2) you farm slowly due to a bad build or bad gear. Check your class forum for popular builds and use one, and you should also be able to find some guidance on finding good, cheap gear for your build there as well. Even players with terrible gear can farm act 1 inferno very effectively and have a great shot at great loot. So if you're banging your head against a wall in act 2+ due to bad gear, just chill in act 1 for a bit.
3) you explore every last corner of every map, open every chest, shoot every skull pile or pot or whatever, etc. instead of focusing on killing elite packs and running as fast as possible to the next elite pack. Some people like to do this, and I won't put them down, since it's a game and if they enjoy it then they should go nuts. But you're not enjoying it, so if this is how you play, stop doing it.
Thanks, I currently have 43% crit with passive and battle rage. I think I should focus more on crit dmg. I totally lost a bidding war yesterday for a really nice offhand. I'm still kicking my self about it....
I had a 1m bid on a str vit ar crit % crit dmg ring, was going to steal it basically. I have cable internet, and the cable companies had it so good for so long (like the record industry) that now that they have to compete they have no idea how. Their service is garbage, and sure enough, with 2 fucking minutes left on the auction my internet service up and died. I did not win it >_<
~~~
As for your barb you seem to know what you're doing, the only thing I'd suggest is picking up a cheap mainhand mighty weapon so that you can observe the difference between that and a mace for yourself and decide what you like better. Barbs are using both effectively so it comes down to preference.
My only other thought is that if you spend big on weapons with all the other stats you need, and high LoH as well (leech won't hurt either, cheaper and cuts down on the need for LoH, especially as your damage goes up), you'll have more freedom on rings and amulets by not constraining yourself to only the options with LoH. Good luck, would love an update once you're geared since you have the $$ to really make WW shine =)
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Actually I'm finding some surprising things. For example my Stonefort and Keep lv 1 exp is pretty bad, 15-18 mill / hour. But I'm getting 30+ in Arreat lv 1, a map most farmers ignore. And the reason you want to start in Core is that it's a short zone with at least one pack, usually two - you want to stack up in these quick zones, then do the longer ones, which have more available exp, with a full 5stack. I'll probably post my data later tonight in the general forum, but it's looking like my runs will go Core -> Keep 3 -> Tower Damned 1 -> Arreat 1 + 2 -> Fields of Slaughter -> Rakkis south.
ps - to the person who doesn't pick up offhands, why? They can be worth a ton just like anything else. Granted, the lower demand means they tend to sell slower, but still.
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How do you do both stonefort maps, assuming you're not starting at the first quest of act 3?
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It seems pretty low to me, I think Alkaizer was getting 50-60 toward the end. Granted his gear kicked my gear's ass, and barb =/= WD.
Lately my route has been "The Second Heart" quest - build up my stacks in stonefort and keep 3, then do keep 1, then the quest through to killing Azmodan (who yields about 300k xp with 5x NV, not bad). Doing the famed "Alkaizer" route doesn't really boost my xp / hour much, and jeez it's boring, same 5 maps over and over.
I'm using the "Spirit Bears" build which another poster has provided us with so much excellent information on, and it feels fast compared to anything else I've done - its just that I've got the speed bug now and more is never enough. Link to the build guide: http://www.diablofan...-farming-build/
My WD: http://us.battle.net...3/hero/22902931
Edit: Just realized that given the time it takes, bosses really aren't good xp / hour, which is probably why more advanced players don't bother. Skipping them should boost my numbers a bit. Including the time it takes to run in from the entrance to each boss, and for Cydaea, the time it takes to zone to Core of Arreat after killing her - all running that I wouldn't be doing if I skipped them - Cydaea provided me with ~8m xp/hour, and Azmodan ~10m - much lower than just running maps.
Edit 2: @ Chonaire, can you link profile? Gear is a huge part of kill speed, it's helpful to know what gear you have.
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The first run I got a legendary. The next 10 runs nothing. *shrug*
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Your naivete about the human mindset is charming =)
I have no epeen to speak of, I'm broke. I'm waiting on a few things to sell so I can afford a gem upgrade.
I just understand the basics of economics and inflation. That's all. I'm not even saying I'm some kind of expert with a degree, just that I understand the basics. That's more than most posters in this thread can say.
Thinking that better loot will improve their gold acquisition is as silly as thinking that we can fix our economic crisis by printing more money. Sometimes I wonder what the average age is here.
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1) If you never get loot worth selling, you're either killing extremely slowly (ask in class forum for build & gear advice), or you're not recognizing good rares. If you vendor something worth a lot, that's your fault, not Blizzard's
2) If better gear dropped more often, good gear would be worth nothing. Everyone would have the best gear available. That happened in D2 LoD. People became obsessed with "perfect" uniques (legendaries), since uniques were so common everyone had them. So you'd get something with 148 str (out of a possible 150) and work your way up to a perfect 150. This was one reason LoD sucked so bad and classic was better.
Think about it in real-world terms: You want a Lamborghini (you know you do). Why do you want it? Primarily because not everyone has one - this makes it a status symbol. People who want better loot don't seem to understand that better loot for them means better loot for everyone else, and that their standing won't improve if gear does. The poster who claimed that everyone who disagrees with the OP is stupid is a perfect example of how childish this mindset is.
0
0
Blizzard has confirmed that the majority of people play in single player mode, not that they play it as a single player game. I play exclusively single player mode, and yet I greatly enjoy the multiplayer aspect of the economy. I think a lot of other people feel the same way.
The problem is that multiplayer in this game is done very poorly. It's limited to 4 players, which is horrible. Further it's linked by quest, forcing you to play directly with other players.
I felt that D2 multiplayer was great, as it allowed players to choose their level of sociability. You could join an 8 player game and solo stuff, just enjoying reading the chat and the harder monsters + more loot that came from being in a full game. Or you could join full diablo run games (or baal runs for those who enjoyed LoD - I thought it sucked and always played classic). Or anything in between.
The point is, the level of sociability was up to the player to decide. Lately, Blizzard is forcing the issue on players. In WoW you are now forced to join a guild - it's part of why I quit that game. It's due to a big deal they made a while back with another company that refuses to let people decide how sociable they want to be - Facebook. (Oh god is it wonderful to watch their stock die ^_^)
Did you play D2? Any time people get together around a common resource (loot, in this case), we start trading it. And any time we trade it, we look for a 'standard candle', something whose worth is relatively stable and allows us to pay, and sell for, a more precise amount vs. the resource we're going crazy over. This is how economies get started and it is unavoidable. In Diablo 2 we used SoJs as currency.
If we didn't have the AH we'd have to sit around trading as in D2. Join a "Trading" game, or make one of your own, and sit around for minutes or hours trying to barter. It didn't work well because with only 7 other players to trade with (max), someone was unlikely to want to buy or sell anything in particular.
In fact, the situation was so bad that d2jsp formed to help with it, and the guy who founded that site is now rich.
In short, if you think this game could function without an AH, you're wrong. History proves it.
0
I envy the internet speeds in Japan & S.Korea, as well as parts of Europe. Unfortunately it's really just a function of population density, and it's lower in the US making it more costly to install high speed infrastructure. I do have 60Mb down / 10 up, but I pay $60 a month for it, and it's less than reliable as I mentioned
1
What I said was stupid, so I edited it out. Sorry about that.
It does seem like the biggest issue people have with this game is that they want a single player experience when the majority of players want the online multiplayer experience of diablo. Diablo really isn't a single player game, and what's more, there are thousands of great single player games out there. My friend's been playing Skyrim lately and keeps telling me about how good it is.
Purchasing Diablo 3 and then complaining about things that are a result of its orientation as a multiplayer game strikes me as stalking into Burger King, demanding they sell you a pizza, and refusing to accept their answer of "Sir, there's a Pizza Hut next door, if you want pizza you should go there."
In short, people who want a single player game and bought Diablo 3 should learn from their mistake, and go purchase a single player game. At least they can sell a few things on the RMAH and make back what they paid for this game, you can't say the same about most other games.
0
1) you're not recognizing good rares when you see them, and are vendoring/smashing hundreds of thousands, possibly millions worth of gear. The best way to understand what's good for a class is to play it at 60, but if you don't have the time, spend a bit of time reading their class forums. Understand their popular builds and what gear is good for them.
2) you farm slowly due to a bad build or bad gear. Check your class forum for popular builds and use one, and you should also be able to find some guidance on finding good, cheap gear for your build there as well. Even players with terrible gear can farm act 1 inferno very effectively and have a great shot at great loot. So if you're banging your head against a wall in act 2+ due to bad gear, just chill in act 1 for a bit.
3) you explore every last corner of every map, open every chest, shoot every skull pile or pot or whatever, etc. instead of focusing on killing elite packs and running as fast as possible to the next elite pack. Some people like to do this, and I won't put them down, since it's a game and if they enjoy it then they should go nuts. But you're not enjoying it, so if this is how you play, stop doing it.
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If all goes well, I can knock out an alkaizer run in as little as 15 minutes. But without much health or damage, all does not always go well =P
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I had a 1m bid on a str vit ar crit % crit dmg ring, was going to steal it basically. I have cable internet, and the cable companies had it so good for so long (like the record industry) that now that they have to compete they have no idea how. Their service is garbage, and sure enough, with 2 fucking minutes left on the auction my internet service up and died. I did not win it >_<
~~~
As for your barb you seem to know what you're doing, the only thing I'd suggest is picking up a cheap mainhand mighty weapon so that you can observe the difference between that and a mace for yourself and decide what you like better. Barbs are using both effectively so it comes down to preference.
My only other thought is that if you spend big on weapons with all the other stats you need, and high LoH as well (leech won't hurt either, cheaper and cuts down on the need for LoH, especially as your damage goes up), you'll have more freedom on rings and amulets by not constraining yourself to only the options with LoH. Good luck, would love an update once you're geared since you have the $$ to really make WW shine =)