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Quote from silvach

You don't understand that this has nothing to do with how many hours you dedicate to play but if either you are lazy crybaby or player who likes challenges.

You don't seem to understand the fundamental flaw of "You have to do 1000s of bounties in a season that probably will only last 3-4 months in order to get an item that is necessary for most builds." It... just... doesn't... work... at... all.

You keep ranting and raving like some kind of entitled gamer... the worst kind of gamer... without showing one bit of comprehension as to what problem they're attempting to solve. This isn't a "make the game easier" issue. It's a "the old way doesn't work in seasons, at all" issue. Can you please, for fuck's sake, get that through your thick head? I know it's tough because all you seem concerned with is convincing us that you're superior to the rest of us, but if you calm the fuck down for ten seconds and stop thumping your chest a bit, I have confidence that even you can understand it.

There are players who haven't got a single RoRG in standard mode yet. That just doesn't translate well into seasons when, to this date, 99% of builds are centered around it. There's nothing more to it. It's not casuals vs hardcore. It's a band-aid fix on an item that is far too mandatory for most builds being far too unavailable to the average player given the timeframe of seasons. There is no fun in having to farm a RoRG per character per season. That's just asinine gameplay, and I expect something similar to be done about the Hellfire Ring & Amulet as they're decidedly unfun to repeatedly farm too.

I would expect that sometime in the future the RoRG and it's near-mandatory across-the-board status is addressed. But, as I see it, this is a stopgap measure until that time comes.

Try to understand the problem before you go bat-shit roid-rage over the solution.

Quote from Pietrak

The point is that being somewhat forced to farm RoRG on each new character in every future season until we get the next expansion (regardless of how easy it is) is highly undesirable.

I'd like to emphasize that this situation is far less horrible with the new drop rates as compared to the old drop rates.

The old drop rates were a MASSIVE deterrent to playing seasons. Seriously, with the old drop rates who really would want to farm up a RoRG once per X months? Even if X is 12, that doesn't sound anywhere close to fun for me. It's very similar to why most people aren't even touching Ubers. There are simply too many layers of RNG.

Did the keys drop to make the IMs?
Did the organs drop to make the ring/neck?
Did the ring/neck roll well?

Did you get a legendary from the cache?
Was it a ring?
Did it roll well?

That kind of RNG clusterfuck is completely counterproductive in seasons. The game is based on RNG, surely. But there's just too many RNG walls to slam into for those two systems, in particular, to be engaging and enjoyable when repeated every X months. Think about the Hellfire Ring/Amulet. Even if they made the keys and organs 100% drop rate on T6 there would still be a ton of RNG in terms of how the items are rolled.

The RNG most people are used to conquering in these games are:

1) Rarity (like Starmetal Kukiri, Wand of Woh, or Enigma); and,
2) Quality of stat rolls

Once you lump in that third layer of RNG it becomes rather punitive and unbearable for most players. Having high drop rates for non-rift activities tends to make up for the otherwise-horrible legendary drop rates outside of rifts, so I'm OK with it. Split bounties are still a total exploit as far as I'm concerned, but there really does need to be a reason to do things other than rifts. This, at least partially, addresses that by making cache-only items not seem like an impossible task unless you have three other people split farming with you. They need to similarly address Ubers.

When we're not doing rifts we're sacrificing drops. Therefore the items we're trying to target MUST be more-accessible to counterbalance that. Risk vs. reward. It's important.

Quote from Jamoose

How is it better game design to have people farm 2k bounties to get 1 crappy ring?

It's not. It's just more rose-tinted nostalgia circlejerking, to put it bluntly.

Having to farm hundreds, and thousands, of bounties just to get one ring, and have that ring subject to RNG, doesn't work with seasons. There was already pretty big backlash about that very fact on Reddit. People saying that RoRG was going to keep them from playing multiple classes in a season because it's just not enjoyable to have to farm like that.

Let's be honest here. Even on T6, even with this buff, you're still getting fewer legendaries/hour doing bounties than doing rifts. But, unlike before, your time doing bounties isn't completely wasted.

And, while we're being honest, let's remember that on T6 you're getting one legendary per cache. You are not getting one RoRG per cache. I did three A1 bounty sets last night. I got two RoRGs, one Mad Monarch's Scepter. Both RoRGs were bad. I don't see the problem there. I've only ever received one "good" RoRG and it had the wrong primary stat, meaning it really wasn't even "good" for the character I was currently playing. What fun is that? How nostalgic does someone have to be to think that was enjoyable?

All they have to do is fix split farming and I think this solution is spot-on, especially considering seasons.

They had to do it. RoRG + Seasons => frustration.

Sure some people enjoy farming RoRG, but getting shoehorned into doing it once per character per season just wasn't a winning formula with the current drop rates. I'm not a big fan of the huge drop rates, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a necessary evil as the alternative is significantly worse. On the upside it makes attaining certain items (Illusory Boots, I am looking squarely at you) much more reasonable... and that's a good thing.

EDIT
5 T6 caches, 5 legendaries so far

Quote from st0rmie

Or just do another pass over the XP values for different mob types. Since the progress bar is now apparently driven by mob XP value .. if certain types are making rifts ridiculously harder, then those types should be worth more XP. That would not only ease the rift problems, but would also be better and fairer for general gameplay in the Acts where those monsters appear.

The amount they'd have to increase the XP gains from, say Morlu Incinerators, to compensate for how much longer it takes (petdoctors in particular) to kill them would completely "break" the game for builds that don't suffer from the same problems (M6 DH, for example).

Napkin math here. A "normal" T6 elite pack (not extra health, not horde, no electrified, fairly easy to cluster up, no insane monster-specific abilities like Morlu Incinerators and such) takes me roughly 10-15s to kill. Morlu Incinerator elite packs on T6 can, and have, taken me in excess of 2 minutes to kill. Let's just say 90s to be fair. That means Morlu Incinerators would have to grant 6-9x as much XP as a "normal" monster to remain competitive in terms of how quickly they fill the rift bar.

They surely could do that, but it would also mean that M6 DHs, in particular, would "win" by getting Morlu Incinerator rifts because they don't take 6-9x as long to kill them. So either the bonus XP is going to be high enough that it evens things out for WDs, but then makes Morlu Incinerators the "must have" monster for DHs to get better GR results, or it won't be high enough and WDs still won't want to encounter them because the XP/time is not worth it.

It would VERY MUCH help to isolate the problem if they'd just group monsters into difficulties and not give us rifts with lots of "hard" monsters. I could probably slog through a Morlu Incinerator rift, but nine times out of ten a Morlu Incinerator rift also means Terror Demons, Mallet Lords, or Corrupted Angels which takes "could probably slog through" and turns it into "why even try?" It's the same with A5 monsters. Anarchs by themselves might make things harder, but Anarchs + Exarchs + Executioners + Winged Assassins + worm things makes it feel more like RNG just took a giant shit on me.

If we were less likely to get 2+ "hard" monsters all lumped in together the perceived difficulty of each individual monster would decrease and there would be less overall balance necessary.

TL;DR
Not every "hard" monster is "hard" for every class or every spec, so simply buffing XP given would then give other classes/specs a significantly easier time clearing rift levels with the buffed monsters. Better RNG when populating the rifts would solve most of the problems at hand. Therefore, the problem should be addressed, first, from that perspective and then fine-tuned by other means.

Quote from Ducha

Are they really? Or are you just that ignorant that you actively refuse to listen to any kind of reasoning that people are providing?

I don't necessarily agree with the guy you were talking to, but I will make the following point...

When they announced BoA Josh was pretty headstrong about how killing monsters should be the most rewarding way to play the game. Therefore, if he really meant that, it follows that principle should guide the entire game design. People leveling by specifically NOT killing monsters, but completing bounties on difficulties way too high for them, just because that's the best XP available rather breaks that general philosophy.

Now, as I said before, I don't really give two rats asses anymore... but being as this was brought up during the beta and they didn't address it, I am slightly irked because it feels like something that should have been fixed to be in-line with their previous stance on how we (generally speaking) should be playing the game was left unaddressed so they could rush the patch to us. That just doesn't sit well with me.

As for the people using the "exploit" I really could care less. I just want some consistency from the developers and I want them to stop bending to deadlines. This patch, more than any other, has felt like it was more based on some deadline from the higher-ups than the previous "It's ready when it's ready" that we'd gotten used to. And that irritates me.

Quote from helpme123

If there is very little Blizzard can do, then they should be down forever.

That's the single stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I mean it's basically as stupid as the "she was wearing a short skirt, so she was asking to be raped" bullshit. Even if Blizzard doesn't protect themselves from DoS attacks, they are still illegal. Trying to denigrate Blizzard on this subject is making excuses for people who are breaking the law and that's despicable on your part.

If my car has no security system that doesn't give anyone the right to steal it. I am completely flabbergasted as to why you are attempting to justify car theft by blaming the owner for not having The Club on their steering wheel. This kind of victim-blaming only occurs on the internet where pathetic little people can talk shit with no repercussions.

I have no doubt that Blizzard could do more. I'm sure I could go out and get a better security system installed on my car too. But when people break the law there is no "well they didn't do enough to prevent me from attacking them" defense. It's nonsensical bullshit.

Quote from Rob64

imcompetence

That's pretty funny right there.

Quote from Immoralthang

Ever since Craptivision bought Blizzard all of their games have been casualized and mass produced.

You do realize that in an interview, the three guys responsible for Diablo 1 stated that they were trying to create broader appeal for RPGs by focusing on combat and reducing what they viewed as unnecessary complexity, right?

Saying that Diablo has been "casualized" is actually paying tribute to the original vision of the original developers and actually arguing that the current developers are keeping in-step with the general philosophy for the series that was established ~15 years ago in some dude's bedroom/garage. And I think this is precisely what Hans was talking about. Sure your opinion is valid, but it seems that you're just using that generic "I want to be angry at something so I'll lash out at people who can only play the game three hours per week" angst-y approach that just doesn't jive here.

Casuals didn't ruin the genre. The genre was build around trying to appeal to people who enjoyed RPGs but couldn't be bothered with how tedious they had become.

Quote from Yavimawa

Item statistics should be scaling with game difficulty and progression should be made only by collecting enough power in items. So every difficulty adds +10-15% to item statistic potential(can roll 10-15% more than on difficulty level-1) and w/o MOST of your gear coming from difficulty X you will have hard time farming difficulty X+1. Together with season this will make farming T6 an achievement rather than goal(not that hard to achieve now).

Sounds exactly like the horrible system we had in Inferno 1.0.

Pass.

This is the first patch since D3 released where that I've honestly not cared in the slightest about... I just don't really see what it brings to the game, right now you farm rifts for loot and stuff with that one build that is miles above every other build in efficiency so that you can rarely get a 2% DPS upgrade to let you farm those rifts slightly faster and a week after this patch releases, you'll be doing the exact same thing? Sure there adding greater rifts, but ultimately there just higher difficulties of the same thing further decreasing build diversity and while I guess I get the idea of new start how long does that really last, a week?

This is how I see seasons: Day 1 get char to 70, Day 2 spam normal bounties, Day 3 - 7 spam highest difficulty rift/Grift possible... Day 8+ have full class set and be using the new most efficient build available while searching for pure stat-upgrades for the gear you already have... Like, what do seasons bring after the first week and what's the difference between a Grift and a normal rift?

Ironically, botting or not, the sort of gameplay required to efficiently gain paragon levels is exactly the sort of gameplay that is so astonishingly boring that no sane person would ever want to watch you stream it.

I'd say the least appealing is main stat by a huge margin most of the time.......but of course there will always be those fringe exceptions, for example you can always assume that a legendary gem will be worth more than ~700 main stat....but is some cases, on some characters..it wont be.....and you wont be able to just assume...

it may be a long story but im sure it will be justified eventually by certain players why 750 main stat is better than at least one of the others you listed...even a brand new crazy powerful legendary gem.

Nothing is absolute.

OP doesn't want discussion. OP wants affirmation. OP needs a blanky and a nap.

Let's be careful about using the phrase "average player". There's really no such thing, and as a concept it's hazardously misleading... remember that the average Englishman has two testicles, but the average American only has one.

A hell of a lot of D3 players bought the game, noodled around for a bit, had some fun, then left the game never to return. The 1-70 journey with quests and cutscenes and unlocking skills and all that stuff we consider to be a brief, annoying preamble is the main game for millions of people. For the rest of us, there's still very much a situation where your longevity is my dull grind. Sure, you could get 'longevity' from D3 by reducing droprates and XP by a factor ten, making it a year-long project to get even a single character geared... but longevity shouldn't be the aim, it should be a side-effect. D3 attempts to induce that side-effect by giving us a pile of options for keeping gameplay fresh... easy respeccing, minimal cost for switching characters and (in theory) multiple things to do while in the game. Yes, that comes at a cost of (respectively) removing skills as a meaningful progression goal, diminishing our attachment to any particular character, and... well...D3 doesn'thave that many options for game types in practice, so the last one is moot.