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Oct 8, 2012WW benefits from AIS in the number of procs it produces, you were asking about DPS, the damage of WW does not change with AIS, thanks to Loroese, you can find his thread a little lower about testing of WW vs AISPosted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Oct 8, 2012Bad wording i guess, to clear up:Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
- blizzard = X% weapon damage over Y seconds - does not benefit from AIS
- channeled spells = X% weapon damage - does benefit from AIS, archon benefits indirectly via higher dmg ticks, disintegrate / ray of frost shortens the cast animation
- cast spells = X weapon damage - arcane orb, etc the spells that have a single cast animation = the cast animation is shortened by the AIS, however i have seen reports that some spells have caps - i.e. animation does not go any faster than a certain rate, not sure if this affects the actual damage output or just a graphic issue
- hydra - is a pet, it's in a different category, but it works exactly the same as archon beam - the ticks / attacks do not increase in speed with AIS, rather increase in damage to balance it out
Oct 8, 2012I'm not asking about viability, i'm asking sustainability, that's 2 completely different concepts. If we have 0 APoC on gear and run out of AP within 15 seconds that's clearly not sustainable. If we have enough, whatever the amount is of APoC on gear and we can continue casting without running out of AP while hitting stuff, obviously, to generate back AP - then that is sustainable. Certainly RNG will play a factor no matter, and certainly there will be times when you get no crits for a few seconds (although i don't see how is that possible with say 5-6 ww tornadoes ticking 6 times a second with an even 40% CC), certainly mobs will sometimes move out of the WW and you get no APoC procs.Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
I don't know am i not explaining the concept clearly? Let me rephrase it this way:
1) Would YOU run CM build with WW with 10 APoC? Yes or no.
2) What is the correlation between the APS and CC versus minimum APoC required on gear to make the build sustainable in a sense of not running out of AP in 10 seconds?
3) Based on your conclusions the WW testing thread - at APS 3.0 WW is going to tick 32 times over 6 seconds, i do not see the point of having 30 APoC in that setup because that would be very very very extremely heavy extra.
Oct 8, 2012Sustainable in terms of AP = i can go on forever without running out of APPosted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Do i run out of AP if
CC = 40% APS = 2.0 APoC = 15 ?
CC = 45% APS = 2.0 APoC = 10 ?
CC = 50% APS = 3.0 APoC = 8 ?
Is there a way to run CM build using WW and EB as AP spenders while having only 1 APoC source? What is the minimum required CC and APS for that?
Oct 7, 2012I'm thinking about sustainability in terms of AP based on APS and CC. Common WW build with EB and WW as the 2 AP spenders, what's the required APoC to sustain that build? Using WW, based on your work - the higher the APS the higher the uptime on DS and nova going to be, so the only question is what is the required gear setup in terms of the 3 possible variables: APoC, APS and CC.Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
I don't think it would be applicable to the meteor build as the APS plays no role in that, which would make WW build more viable at higher gear levels. Quite honestly, other than a slightly different playstyle of the meteor build - i don't really see any other gearing up synergies in there: APoC is only available on 3 sources:
helm - tal's helm or mempo are going to beat any APoC helm flat out in terms of DPS any day
weapon - chantodo's have APoC but they cost 600+ mil for 1.2k DPS, while echoing fury with the same socket in 1.2k range will cost about 100m tops, rare wands with APoC cost a bomb as well and suck in DPS values as most of them lack INT, those that do have stupid costs again
offhand - is the more reliable APoC source, any OH can roll APoC
Hence the entire gearing question arising from this - if we go for a high APS and high CC would a single APoC source be sufficient to run the WW based CM build? Or do we have to inevitably invest into at least 2 sources? Like for example i'm sitting on over 300m gold right now, and i would like to have the ability to run not only archon, but also CM, especially for the ubers, so do i have a chance to run CM with just OH APoC or do i invest into MH with APoC or do i drop a chunk of DPS and get an APoC helm?
According to your research - with, say, 3 APS WW is going to have 2*6*3=36 ticks wouldn't that be fine to run with just 10 APoC or even less? What about 2.5 APS?
Oct 7, 2012Loroese, thanks for the simulator, great job!Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Could you please do a favor to the all of us and create a table for WW based CM wizards with:
- attack speed along one axis
- CC along another axis
- each cell = minimum required APoC to sustain the build
This is a question i know i want an answer to, i'm pretty sure a lot of other wizards would like to know this as well - after all gearing up with all 3 sources of APoC is very limiting to the DPS and very draining financially, it would be far better to have an accurate goal to aim for in terms of APoC on gear. For example, if we are reaching 3.0 APS, would a single source of APoC suffice? Or do we still have to have 3?
Oct 4, 2012Correct, what i was saying is that with 1 APS you get 12 damage ticks of WW and with 2 APS you get 24 damage ticks as well. The thing is that - it is virtually impossible to see that due to the way the damage numbers are shown ingame at 0.5 seconds intervals. The damage of the spell is going to be broken down into smaller more frequent ticks rather than larger bigger ticks instead.Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
The reason i am saying this is that it would be rather stupid to have 2 completely different formulas working for every spell, if you just use 1 formula for both the damage ticks and the proc ticks - it would be far more sensible and easier to maintain.
Oct 4, 2012Loroese, my question here is:Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Does attack speed affect the speed of ticks or ticks per second of the WW?
The problem with this is: according to what community believes as well as i recall seeing it stated by Blizzard - the damage numbers for any skill are added up at 0.5 seconds interval. So for example if the skill ticks twice a second or the skill ticks 4 times or even 20 times a second you will only see 2 damage numbers coming up on the screen.
While the overall damage of the skill is going to remain the same, the amount of ticks it performs is...? The larger number of ticks is going to certainly provide for a larger chance to proc CM, hence making AIS a valuable stat for the CM builds using WW.
According to your tests - the LoH values seem to increase based on AIS. That alone, suggests that the number or ticks definitely increased assuming that the coefficient remains the same no matter the APS. Using the same model of healing done added every 0.5 seconds before being displayed - this clearly explains the reason why the numbers increased from 50 to a 100, etc.
So the final conclusion then would be that APS increases the amount of ticks WW performs? Or am i completely lost?
Oct 3, 2012TheDemokin posted a message on Best XP per hour as an Archon wizard for Paragon levelingPosted in: Wizard: The Ancient RepositoriesQuote from Jaetch
Quote from dabishi
personally in terms of density of mobs doesnt pony level come close to crater 2/keeps 2 and the only thing stopping it from being good before was the fact that you had to be in act 1?
Actually, I visited Whimsyshire a small handful of times after patch 1.04 and I was so depressed by the emptiness of it compared to Act 3 I never returned since.
Completely agree the density is far too low in whimsy.
With regards to act 1 MP3-4 i have no idea why that even came across - as you mentioned the damage / HP is the same as act 3 MP3-4, in terms of density i can't really think of areas on act 1 that are much better or even just better than act 3. I could see act 2 working with 5-8 elites in the vaults of the assasin alone and a few other very crowded areas
Oct 2, 2012TheDemokin posted a message on Best XP per hour as an Archon wizard for Paragon levelingactually people are talking about a sweetspot on act 1 and MP3-4Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Oct 2, 2012Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient RepositoriesQuote from Loroese
0.9 APS Total Damage
Average = 353.75
1.83 APS Total Damage
Average = 357.83
Based on those results I again conclude that WW damage is independent of attack speed since the 1.83 APS setup had twice the APS but the same weapon damage as the 0.9 APS setup.
Nice work so far,
did i miss something or is there 4 ticks in the first case and 6 ticks in the second? At the same time you proclaim that WW damage is independent of APS, well the average damage seems to remain, while the total number of ticks seems to have increased thus increasing the total damage of WW?
Oct 2, 2012That's the usual test, however with such a test it's impossible to conclude if the WW ticks more / faster with AIS - the damage seem to add up per 0.5 seconds according to what community accepts right now. This is primarily based on the belief that the channeled / beam spells do crit but we never get to see the crit damage as a larger yellow number because they tick faster than 0.5 seconds and every 0.5 seconds the damage is added up. According to that post by blizzard - the tick speed scales with attack speed, assuming that the duration of WW would be the same under all conditions - then it would be reasonable to assume that the attack speed increases the number of ticks of the WW as well. However, i really do not see how it could be tested based on the damage numbers appearing on the screen.Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Oct 1, 2012Loroese actually i'm not so sure anymore - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3595370796#10 if channeled spells imply disintegrate and archon beam then it is affected by the attack speed, which is controversial to belief that it simply scales the 'size' of fixed rate of ticks based on total DPS.Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
Oct 1, 2012I've been looking at the witch doctors forums recently and they have a few builds based on items with -cooldown or -mana cost of skills, kinda prompted me to look into our gear:Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
There are a few sources that could reduce Arcane Torrent build:
- 2 legendary rings have -5 AP cost
- Legendary amulet has -5 AP cost
- Rare helms have -5 AP cost
- prism -7 AP cost of skills
- power of the storm -3 AP cost of skills
Arcane torrent has a 20% coefficient per missile and fires 3 missiles on each cast. Following that, stack up high attack speed, the AP cost will be easily covered by the pure AP regen even at the highest possible attack rates - that means you do not need any APoC gear at all to run this.
Arcane torrent alone has a very high weapon damage compared to many other skills, it hits fast and it's an AOE attack.
Could one of the more math savvy guys please help me out and do the math on the prism / nova uptime & CD from CM based on lets say 50% crit rate (which is quite easily achievable with OH) and say 2.0 / 2.5 / 3.0 APS?
Once again stacking in cold blooded + arcane disruption rune + may be slow time for a total of 20% + 15% + 20% damage bonuses for a skill that could be easily spammable non-stop as well as having a strong base weapon damage.
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