The truth is; HC is more of a challenge than Standard, this cannot be argued. It isn't up for debate.
The game isn't more of a challenge, it just has a lose condition. In fact, the way many people play HC the game ends up being significantly LESS of a challenge, because you avoid anything that could seriously threaten the life of your character. In Season 3, a Softcore group of 4 cleared grift 77. In Hardcore, the higher cleared grift was 68. I would wager that nobody in Hardcore ever even attempted a 77.
Simply put, some people enjoy the challenge of taking on content that pushes the limits of their gear more than the "challenge" of not disconnecting and not having a partner that gets you killed. Some people enjoy trying again when they fail to meet that challenge, rather than giving up and starting over. Which isn't to discount the challenge of keeping yourself alive, but just to say that it is a very different challenge, and not necessarily "more" of one.
There is a myth that most/all HC players "play it safe" by staying in low torments and hiding under low Grift tiers.
To boil out the fat; We see the challenge of softcore grifting is to beat the timer....that's it. You're against a clock and that's it.
In HC, you're against that same clock with the added challenge of not making a serious mistake and dying. Permanent death, you have to re-roll that character before you try again.
This is what I mean by "more of a challenge". There is literally more of a challenge in HC. Softcore players didn't clear 77 because they can face more of a challenge than HC players. They did so because they could die and keep going.
I absolutely assure you that many HC players tried to get higher than 68. There is no leaderboard showing "good tries". Many tried and failed because they cannot play with the same reckless abandon that SC players do. As well, many tried and failed because they died....ya know....due to the extra challenges of HC play.
Keep the requests coming folks.... rucksack has done a stellar job of cleaning up the inactives and bringing in new active folks. (make sure you thank but dont expect an immediate reply - he's a HC player). Last night - we had close to 50 members on at one time.
Thanks for the kind words. I don't think anyone will soon forget the work you did to get the clan going. As a long time member of the clan, it didn't take off until you led the way. Before you arrived, it was just another clan. Now.... it's packed and active with real fans of the game.
Got on this morning, noticed i got the invite!!! Unfortunately when i click accept, it says the clan is full now. =(
Include your full Btag here in this thread so I know who to look for, and I'll see if we can find room. I won't be back until this evening, so give me some time to work you in. There should be some wiggle room to get you in. It's going to be very difficult to work you in unless we're both online at the same time. PM me in-game. (Btag in my siggy).
If you (or anyone) requests an invite, please check back often, because we often have only a few spots open and MANY invites sent out. This is done to fill open spots expeditiously, as well as treat invites on a first-come first-serve basis. All too often people receive invites and they either don't follow up, or otherwise haven't left their old clan yet.
Hi ruksak/Burning! Any spots left? I just sent in a request (Snugglybear).
Sent an invite. A spot opened up because someone thought making a racist joke in clan chat was a good idea.
Hop in and accept before someone takes your spot.
Several spots open. We're purging much more liberally now that Seasons is winding up and some people still didn't come back. Our activity is excellent as of now, but we're shooting for more.
Send your requests in now and you may get in tonight.
yall might want to consider getting the dfans community active again - seems like that would solve most of the problems you folks have mentioned (not enough space for members, people leaving for other clans, and adequate oversight).
I'm not sure why the community channel doesn't get more activity, nor how we could bolster it. It seems to primarily get used during PTR.
As for members leaving; We're only seeing a few a day do this, and they're people that you never see in chat, that never really engage the clan. Probably just leaving in search of greener pastures, many to find clans with 50 half-ass active members who never talk to each other (I've been in a few of those).
But for those reading this who cannot get into Dfans; Just add yourself to the Diablofans community chat channel (in-game) and that way you can reach us and get in on groups etc. Myself (and all the other officers) keep the channel open.
Why don't ya'll make a second <dfans2> or something since you are overflowing with members?
Diablofans requires that, since the clan is tied to this website, the clan requires oversight from the website admin. Too many clans tied to this site would be a pain in Molster's ass. For example; If we had members/officers saying overtly racist jokes in the clan chat, it would not reflect well on this site, it's partners, and it's administrators.
We have a few people leave everyday (not sure why they'd go and do a thing like that), so keep sending in-game join requests and i'll invite as spots free up. Some people leave to start their own clan, or to join a friends clan. If any of you have ever been in a slow, inactive clan, you would appreciate the Dfans clan for what it is.
HC just gives you a reason to pay attention to what your doing. SC is to much of a mindless meat grind for me. If they were to penalize players for dying in SC, say the loss of an item or wiping of Paragon levels, than I might actually play SC.
There is already a mode with a penalty for death. I don't think Blizz would change that at this point.
With the aspect of competition inexorably tied to Grifts, SC players suffer stacking time penalties from death. So there's that. That functions as a DP good enough I believe.
I guess one benefit to playing HC is the sense of being an elitist prick you gain from thinking you're somehow better than anyone that doesn't play HC.
I agree with this somewhat. And a lot of the comments in this thread seem to prove this.
Sometimes people perceive certain comments the wrong way, and they want to receive them as personal in nature. The truth is; HC is more of a challenge than Standard, this cannot be argued. It isn't up for debate. Simply saying this can get some people all pissed off, truth or not.
That being said, I know plenty of HC players that really suck at this game. So....take that for what it's worth.
I guess one benefit to playing HC is the sense of being an elitist prick you gain from thinking you're somehow better than anyone that doesn't play HC.
Just don't apply that standard to all HC players. Many people forget that this game can mean different things to different people, and they forget to type the qualifier of "for me" and the beginning of certain sentences; Such as; "FOR ME, the game doesn't offer enough of a challenge in standard mode"....or ..."FOR ME, the game is too easy without HC".
Personally, I get why a lot of folks enjoy standard mode. It's kinda nice to be able to die and not have it be a big deal. But for me, I need a bit more excitement, especially without a sensible PvP in diablo 3.
One thing you'll never see in HC (something you hear a lot of complaints about in standard); You'll never see a paragon 5 with all yellows equipped trying to leech in t6-t10 games. That tells us a lot about the differences between these modes.
OP gives good advice. Many don't know this, which is why I'd avoid public splits until word spreads a bit more. It'll just frustrate you to have to explain it every other game.
HC comes with it's own built in end game, exclusive to that mode. Death. ...or....avoiding death. Permanent death. Your character isn't rolling over to SC like in PoE, this is real HC.
HC has rewarded me endlessly. It saved D3 for me when the game was at it's lowest points early on. Now that D3 is a legit top-shelf ARPG (IMO), I am bound to HC mode. I simply couldn't enjoy the game without it.
Objectively speaking; HC adds an aspect to the game that it currently doesn't have outside of HC. It makes it possible for you to lose. It's a game, you should be able to lose. There is no PvP, so if you want to risk loss, hardcore is for you.
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To boil out the fat; We see the challenge of softcore grifting is to beat the timer....that's it. You're against a clock and that's it.
In HC, you're against that same clock with the added challenge of not making a serious mistake and dying. Permanent death, you have to re-roll that character before you try again.
This is what I mean by "more of a challenge". There is literally more of a challenge in HC. Softcore players didn't clear 77 because they can face more of a challenge than HC players. They did so because they could die and keep going.
I absolutely assure you that many HC players tried to get higher than 68. There is no leaderboard showing "good tries". Many tried and failed because they cannot play with the same reckless abandon that SC players do. As well, many tried and failed because they died....ya know....due to the extra challenges of HC play.
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Include your full Btag here in this thread so I know who to look for, and I'll see if we can find room. I won't be back until this evening, so give me some time to work you in. There should be some wiggle room to get you in. It's going to be very difficult to work you in unless we're both online at the same time. PM me in-game. (Btag in my siggy).
If you (or anyone) requests an invite, please check back often, because we often have only a few spots open and MANY invites sent out. This is done to fill open spots expeditiously, as well as treat invites on a first-come first-serve basis. All too often people receive invites and they either don't follow up, or otherwise haven't left their old clan yet.
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Sent an invite. A spot opened up because someone thought making a racist joke in clan chat was a good idea.
Hop in and accept before someone takes your spot.
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Several spots open. We're purging much more liberally now that Seasons is winding up and some people still didn't come back. Our activity is excellent as of now, but we're shooting for more.
Send your requests in now and you may get in tonight.
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I'm not sure why the community channel doesn't get more activity, nor how we could bolster it. It seems to primarily get used during PTR.
As for members leaving; We're only seeing a few a day do this, and they're people that you never see in chat, that never really engage the clan. Probably just leaving in search of greener pastures, many to find clans with 50 half-ass active members who never talk to each other (I've been in a few of those).
But for those reading this who cannot get into Dfans; Just add yourself to the Diablofans community chat channel (in-game) and that way you can reach us and get in on groups etc. Myself (and all the other officers) keep the channel open.
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We have a few people leave everyday (not sure why they'd go and do a thing like that), so keep sending in-game join requests and i'll invite as spots free up. Some people leave to start their own clan, or to join a friends clan. If any of you have ever been in a slow, inactive clan, you would appreciate the Dfans clan for what it is.
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That being said, I know plenty of HC players that really suck at this game. So....take that for what it's worth.
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Personally, I get why a lot of folks enjoy standard mode. It's kinda nice to be able to die and not have it be a big deal. But for me, I need a bit more excitement, especially without a sensible PvP in diablo 3.
One thing you'll never see in HC (something you hear a lot of complaints about in standard); You'll never see a paragon 5 with all yellows equipped trying to leech in t6-t10 games. That tells us a lot about the differences between these modes.
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Get back on topic or else warnings will be handed out.
<do not respond to this post>
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Seasons starts tonight, and it is a great time to send your in-game request in. I will be on all morning and will add everyone that sends a request.
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OP gives good advice. Many don't know this, which is why I'd avoid public splits until word spreads a bit more. It'll just frustrate you to have to explain it every other game.
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HC comes with it's own built in end game, exclusive to that mode. Death. ...or....avoiding death. Permanent death. Your character isn't rolling over to SC like in PoE, this is real HC.
HC has rewarded me endlessly. It saved D3 for me when the game was at it's lowest points early on. Now that D3 is a legit top-shelf ARPG (IMO), I am bound to HC mode. I simply couldn't enjoy the game without it.
Objectively speaking; HC adds an aspect to the game that it currently doesn't have outside of HC. It makes it possible for you to lose. It's a game, you should be able to lose. There is no PvP, so if you want to risk loss, hardcore is for you.