Honestly I don't think a build is even in the running for being considered OP until it can farm Torment 6, unless there's something else incredibly broken about it.
What exactly did they fix? / link? Because, even though after I better understand the combo, I can agree it was a bit overpowered, I don't think it was ever "bugged" in the true sense of the word. It was poorly designed / conceived and thus offered greater benefit than intended but I wouldn't say bugged. It seems in order to fix it, it would take a change to the affix or the core skill . . . and too nerf the skill because of a poorly designed legendary wouldn't make sense so I'm hoping they changed the affix.
You know what, the original wording of spiders is different than jar and does say "Throw a jar with 4 spiders that attack nearby enemies for a total of 120% weapon damage as physical before dying." Key words being "for a total of." In current D3, I never used the Toads skill much because the targeting is sketchy/random. However, after reading a bit, it does look like your read was correct and each toad can do do that much damage if it hits . . . but that normal targeting and randomness of their direction doesn't make it common for all 3 to hit unless you are right on top of your target.
Thus, in this case, the powerful damage amping part of the legendary may have as much to do with the "homing" part of the effect (each toad now guaranteed to connect) as it does the chance for the double explosion. When read this way, the homing+the double explosion chance does make for a bit of an overpowered legendary. It is still not doing all the work we are seeing in these videos on it's own (that is more the high number of chances per second for crushing blow damage that come from handfuls of fast casted double exploding toads) but it does likely make for a spammable skill that is too strong. Perhaps one or the other - "homing" or "chance for double explosion" - but not both would be more appropriate.
You make a claim that it has been tested without CB . . . and then link yet another video showing crushing blow at work. Show me a vid where he shows 0% crushing blow on his character sheet and then proceeds to insta-kill a boss with just this skill and legendary at the same speed in T6 and I'll start to pay attention.
The only thing the legendary does is guarantee the toads will find a target and give them a double explosion. This definitely amps the damage potential but not to the tune we are seeing in these videos.
It has far more to do with Crushing Blow and how it interacts with the skill than it does the skill alone. Each one of the toads hits twice (explodes twice due to legendary), there are three toads per cast, he can get many casts off in a small amount of time, and he has high crushing blow chance. That gives him many crushing blow chances in a very small window. For the final bit of health that crushing blow isn't as effective on, he still has very high damage (1.4 mill DPS which doesn't even account for other gear he has that increases % damage of Fire based skills as well as % Splash Damage - another new DPS skill that scales well with many double-exploding toads). Anyway, note how the final 25% of health comes off slower in the vids than the first 75%.
Long and short, Blizz needs to rethink Crushing Blow design more than Plague of Toads design.
It's an interesting variation but for low MPs, it doesn't stack up very well against Acid Cloud build variations (fast mob death and correct passives give you all the mana return you need), and for high MPs it doesn't stack up well to Bears build variations (using VQ plus Spiders would let you spam a higher damage spell like Bears as infinitely as you are spamming Spirit Barrage). A single-target spell for your main damage output is severely limiting. Granted you runed it for the extra hits but those are at very low weapon damage. That said, if you enjoy this type of play style more, that's important so keep on keeping on.
i will admit that is dinging paragon 100 in style.
well, now that i'm aware it was just a undisclosed copy of someone else's idea . . . I take it back. Moldran, because he did it first and, especially because he did it in a Sprockets turtleneck -- that was dinging 100 in style.
Also, I'm much happier playing a WD than running around mindlessly with tornadoes killing everything behind me. Crazy effective . . . but silliest spec/mechanic ever. Then again . . . I did run around as a chicken for much of my 90 to 100 paragon levels . . .
I did a wide variety of different runs / zone combos on my way to 100 -- at the end I was averaging between 70-80 mil xp/hr. From my experience, as much as it makes a good thread title and is good marketing, I wouldn't say Ogies run/zone selection would be 20-30% faster than an Alk run. I do agree Rakki's is a nice add that wasn't in Alk and I had that in my late Paragon levels 90-100. I also liked running Skycrown Battlements for a change of pace and put that in my runs on occasion as well.
I will say starting in Core/Tower of the Damned over many, many runs, there is just an inconsistent # of Elite packs. When things go well, and you pick up 2-3 in each zone, those are the highest xp runs I did. However, on an average basis, running Skycrown and getting a consistent 4-5 every time often suited me better. In the end, I just kept alternating things to change it up, stave off boredom, and power through.
One thing I will say about short runs is that on any given individual run, they may give you a false positive in terms of being really, really efficient. If you have an exceptionally good 5 minute run and then just multiply that out by 12, it can seem by extrapolation that you are getting really high xp/hr. However, do 12 of those same 5 minute runs with all of their up and down variation (some being better than others), it starts to average down to match your longer 8-10 minute run zone setups.
Any rate, if you track enough runs, all these zones begin to even out quite a bit - anything that includes Keep Depths II, Arreat Crater 2, Fields, Rakkis will do quite well -- add in the other high-ish density zones in Act III for fun / variation. Honestly, more than zones, the best things you can do for efficiency are:
a ) run with xp gear (max xp gem in helm, two rings on you, and at least one ring on follower - hellfire/leoric's)
b ) run with 24% movement speed
c ) pick a build that focuses on max movement increase skills and uptime
d ) run at a MP that allows you to one-shot most white mobs and kill packs in 3-5 seconds
e ) don't backtrack, don't swing back and waste a cast on less than 4-5 white mobs, don't try to full clear a zone
f ) do keep moving forward always with minimal stops for casts
g ) if you are focusing on xp primarily, then only pickup items that have a chance of rolling for a big sell - legendaries, gloves, wrists, amulets, rings, and certain ilvl 63 1h weaps - or if you are max xp or bust, don't pick up anything. Personally, I always ran MF capped and picked up the above noted items.
Zones and mob density certainly matter (which is why Act III has become the de facto standard for efficiency). But, once I got it parsed down to the 7 or 8 zones worth running, focusing on actual spec, gear, and run mechanics was the thing that had a far larger impact on my efficiency versus any slight changes to which of the high density zones in Act III I ran or in what order I ran them.
All of that said, at this point, I've said screw efficiency (easier for me to do now playing inefficiently isn't a double-whammy on XP and Item find). Right now, I'm just playing the game at higher MPs, full Act runs, and enjoying playing D3 in a way that makes it feel like a game again. If I find something good, great, if not, so be it. At some point, efficiency running just becomes mind-numbing and doesn't feel like a game anymore.
Definitely go with BR first as noted above. That said, if you need still need more mana, VQ plus Spiders is outstanding to add as a second passive. One spider cast can keep VQ up ~10 seconds or so which allows you to spam Bears alot longer without having to cast a primarty to refresh VQ as often. It's the setup I've been using for high MP gameplay.
Whatever the effect, it needs to be very visual -- similar to the near-death red or attaining a paragon level or somesuch. On any given night, music blaring, at who know what level of sobriety, that legendary has a high chance of being missed unless the alert is completely in my face - especially if it drops from trash -- which have been a surprising source of many of my legendary drops.
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https://www.youtube....h?v=EHvXEKuUhG0
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Thus, in this case, the powerful damage amping part of the legendary may have as much to do with the "homing" part of the effect (each toad now guaranteed to connect) as it does the chance for the double explosion. When read this way, the homing+the double explosion chance does make for a bit of an overpowered legendary. It is still not doing all the work we are seeing in these videos on it's own (that is more the high number of chances per second for crushing blow damage that come from handfuls of fast casted double exploding toads) but it does likely make for a spammable skill that is too strong. Perhaps one or the other - "homing" or "chance for double explosion" - but not both would be more appropriate.
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That would be awesome math if each individual toad did 245% damage. I suppose you believe each blazing spider in a jar does 230% damage as well.*
*apologies as my previous understanding on toad mechanics was not correct and the sarcasm above wasn't merited -- see post below about homing, etc.
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The only thing the legendary does is guarantee the toads will find a target and give them a double explosion. This definitely amps the damage potential but not to the tune we are seeing in these videos.
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Long and short, Blizz needs to rethink Crushing Blow design more than Plague of Toads design.
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well, now that i'm aware it was just a undisclosed copy of someone else's idea . . . I take it back. Moldran, because he did it first and, especially because he did it in a Sprockets turtleneck -- that was dinging 100 in style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZR9SA5pOg
Also, I'm much happier playing a WD than running around mindlessly with tornadoes killing everything behind me. Crazy effective . . . but silliest spec/mechanic ever. Then again . . . I did run around as a chicken for much of my 90 to 100 paragon levels . . .
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mmm, pop tarts.
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I will say starting in Core/Tower of the Damned over many, many runs, there is just an inconsistent # of Elite packs. When things go well, and you pick up 2-3 in each zone, those are the highest xp runs I did. However, on an average basis, running Skycrown and getting a consistent 4-5 every time often suited me better. In the end, I just kept alternating things to change it up, stave off boredom, and power through.
One thing I will say about short runs is that on any given individual run, they may give you a false positive in terms of being really, really efficient. If you have an exceptionally good 5 minute run and then just multiply that out by 12, it can seem by extrapolation that you are getting really high xp/hr. However, do 12 of those same 5 minute runs with all of their up and down variation (some being better than others), it starts to average down to match your longer 8-10 minute run zone setups.
Any rate, if you track enough runs, all these zones begin to even out quite a bit - anything that includes Keep Depths II, Arreat Crater 2, Fields, Rakkis will do quite well -- add in the other high-ish density zones in Act III for fun / variation. Honestly, more than zones, the best things you can do for efficiency are:
a ) run with xp gear (max xp gem in helm, two rings on you, and at least one ring on follower - hellfire/leoric's)
b ) run with 24% movement speed
c ) pick a build that focuses on max movement increase skills and uptime
d ) run at a MP that allows you to one-shot most white mobs and kill packs in 3-5 seconds
e ) don't backtrack, don't swing back and waste a cast on less than 4-5 white mobs, don't try to full clear a zone
f ) do keep moving forward always with minimal stops for casts
g ) if you are focusing on xp primarily, then only pickup items that have a chance of rolling for a big sell - legendaries, gloves, wrists, amulets, rings, and certain ilvl 63 1h weaps - or if you are max xp or bust, don't pick up anything. Personally, I always ran MF capped and picked up the above noted items.
Zones and mob density certainly matter (which is why Act III has become the de facto standard for efficiency). But, once I got it parsed down to the 7 or 8 zones worth running, focusing on actual spec, gear, and run mechanics was the thing that had a far larger impact on my efficiency versus any slight changes to which of the high density zones in Act III I ran or in what order I ran them.
All of that said, at this point, I've said screw efficiency (easier for me to do now playing inefficiently isn't a double-whammy on XP and Item find). Right now, I'm just playing the game at higher MPs, full Act runs, and enjoying playing D3 in a way that makes it feel like a game again. If I find something good, great, if not, so be it. At some point, efficiency running just becomes mind-numbing and doesn't feel like a game anymore.
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