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Quote from Benegesserit

Quote from karsen88

Quote from Benegesserit

Quote from karsen88

Your analogy is nonsensical as well...Saying something is bad if it takes an hour to do damage doesnt really say anything about the mana per cast of hydra.

Damage per AP means NOTHING if the damage is extremely weak. You have to consider DPS to AP and not just damage to AP. What good are the Hydras if the mobs are dead before they get more than a few shots off? I'll just use FREE magic missle spread glyph instead if you're so worried about damage to AP. If I want utility there are plenty of other skills I can use instead. Sure there MAY be fringe cases where I'll swap for some turret CC to kite some huge mob that can be slowed.

It has nothing to do if I like it or not (btw, I do like it because I love turret skills and dragon-type creatures are awesome) but the math right now does NOT back it up and math is fact not opinion. About the only thing left that neither of us know yet is if the AI is still as crappy as it seems in the video.

Are you saying the skill was nerfed then? I'm still trying to figure out what your saying here. You sound like you agree in general this is a buff, which is the entirety of what I'm saying.

Robbing peter to pay paul. You're getting crap damage for good AP cost. Before it was decent damage for crap AP cost. It's neither. UNLESS you're specifically referring to fringe CC cases (that other skills can't handle on their own). Which would not be "easy to see" as you were questioning the other poster.

It will deal less than 10% less damage and will costs 62% less AP.

I fail to see how the damage it dealt was significant enough to say "did decent damage and now deals crap damage".

Besides, do you not realize that the net gain in 25 AP when you cast it now directly translates into more damage from other spells? The total damage you deal when you use Hydra in any combat scenario is higher than before in every single way you slice it. There is no trade off here. It was a buff.

I won't be replying to you regarding this any longer as you are simply either too stuborn to admit you are wrong, or are too stupid to realize it. I'm personally inclined to believe the former, since that is basically how every debate over internet forums amounts to.

Quote from Benegesserit

Quote from karsen88

Your analogy is nonsensical as well...Saying something is bad if it takes an hour to do damage doesnt really say anything about the mana per cast of hydra.

Damage per AP means NOTHING if the damage is extremely weak. You have to consider DPS to AP and not just damage to AP. What good are the Hydras if the mobs are dead before they get more than a few shots off? I'll just use FREE magic missle spread glyph instead if you're so worried about damage to AP. If I want utility there are plenty of other skills I can use instead. Sure there MAY be fringe cases where I'll swap for some turret CC to kite some huge mob that can be slowed.

It has nothing to do if I like it or not (btw, I do like it because I love turret skills and dragon-type creatures are awesome) but the math right now does NOT back it up and math is fact not opinion. About the only thing left that neither of us know yet is if the AI is still as crappy as it seems in the video.

Are you saying the skill was nerfed then? I'm still trying to figure out what your saying here. You sound like you agree in general this is a buff, which is the entirety of what I'm saying.

Quote from voidburn

Quote from nzall

if they make this many changes a month before release, that's got to mean something, right?

Yes, it means they will keep changing shit for the sake of it, every other month, like in wow. They just can't let something rest. I wonder if I'll ever get to polish my character before they throw an expansion in my face that makes min-maxing gear pointless.

Don't expect a game thats flat rate to get the same type of attention and constant changes that a pay-to-play subscription based game gets. They've explicitly stated they are going to be very hands off with changes once they are comfortable with the balance.

Quote from Benegesserit

Quote from karsen88

Quote from Keiser

Apparently Hydra was not underwhelming enough in its game guide video, they had to nerf it so that act 1 normal would still be a challenge after you have reached level 60.

It had a massive cost decrease and is essentially free damage now considering its dmg to AP spent ratio. It's change honestly made the skill significantly better, I don't how you cant see that.

Easy to see how it could suck. If you had a dot that did 200% weapon damage over 1 hour for 1 AP would you use it? Dmg:AP isn't the only thing to consider. It seems to suck at targeting...appears to have a weak vision radius...and now has weak DPS. I'll take more DPS for higher AP over this change (unless they dramatically improved the targeting AI and vision radius). There's a lot of competition for slots and I'd easily just replace this with Magic Weapon or Familiar if I wanted "essentially free damage".

Yeah but this ignores the utility of the runes, like slows from frost, using as fire dmg for conflag (very limited in innately fire dealing damage abilities as wiz), arcane dmg aoe + it's slowing passive.

you may not personally like the skill, and that's fine. It definitely has more fringe uses than anything else. You may even still think it sucks, which it may. But you can't deny the changes to it was a huge buff.

Before it costed 40 AP, thats 40% of the default pool. which meant you were actively not casting spells in order to save up the AP to cast hydra. Now at a measely 15 AP, it can be thrown down with almost no interrutpion to casting other spells.

Your analogy is nonsensical as well...Saying something is bad if it takes an hour to do damage doesnt really say anything about the mana per cast of hydra.

Are you trying to say it wasn't a buff? I dont understnad. Sure the skill has much more niche uses than other skills, but all classes have skills like that. Even if you think the skill sucks you can't really say it wasn't just buffed right now.

Quote from voidburn

Quote from nzall

if they make this many changes a month before release, that's got to mean something, right?

Yes, it means they will keep changing shit for the sake of it, every other month, like in wow. They just can't let something rest. I wonder if I'll ever get to polish my character before they throw an expansion in my face that makes min-maxing gear pointless.

Don't expect a game thats flat rate to get the same type of attention and constant changes that a pay-to-play subscription based game gets. They've explicitly stated they are going to be very hands off with changes once they are comfortable with the balance.

Quote from Ruppgu

Yay for:

*[monk] Wave of light costing 75 spirit.. weak AoE damage but it could be decent with a few of the runes
*[WD] Sacrifice doing 275%
*[Wizard] Explosive Blast doing 225%
* [Wizard] Meteor doing 200% damage

Head scratchers -

* No change to Soul Harvest
* Locust Swarm got a massive buff. I thought it was pretty good before.
* Hydra doing even less damage (I know it costs less now)

regarding Hydra-
the slight damage nerf was compensation for the MASSIVE cost nerf. The skill ultimately got a huge buff since its ease of use just skyrocketed.

I agree with your other points of interest though, I would just honestly move Hydra into the Yay category lol

Quote from Newpower

Quote from karsen88

Quote from Newpower

i am rly wondering are they gonna fix the damn rubberbanding bug with this patch

I play with low latency on beta (around 30-45) And I cant get the rubber banding to happen even when I try as hard as I can. I understand it's an issue for some select people, but it certainly isn't an issue affecting the entirety of the player base

there is people in california with 20ms and having it , i can say that there is a lot of people with that problem yes not all of em but still seems pretty huge tbh.

This would imply there is something on the user end causing it... maybe a certain driver?

I hope it gets sorted for any of those who expirience it.

Quote from Ruppgu

Yay for:

*[monk] Wave of light costing 75 spirit.. weak AoE damage but it could be decent with a few of the runes
*[WD] Sacrifice doing 275%
*[Wizard] Explosive Blast doing 225%
* [Wizard] Meteor doing 200% damage

Head scratchers -

* No change to Soul Harvest
* Locust Swarm got a massive buff. I thought it was pretty good before.
* Hydra doing even less damage (I know it costs less now)

regarding Hydra-
the slight damage nerf was compensation for the MASSIVE cost nerf. The skill ultimately got a huge buff since its ease of use just skyrocketed.

I agree with your other points of interest though, I would just honestly move Hydra into the Yay category lol

Quote from nzall

if they make this many changes a month before release, that's got to mean something, right?

Balancing passes are the final thing they do before release. They need to make sure everything is completely stable and all game-play affecting bugs have been fixed before they amke many balancing decesions.

If anything it just means everything is fine and they are on track.


EDIT: to the poster above me- default disc pool is 30, not 32. My guess is you had some +1 disc weapons/armor equipped

Quote from Keiser

Apparently Hydra was not underwhelming enough in its game guide video, they had to nerf it so that act 1 normal would still be a challenge after you have reached level 60.

It had a massive cost decrease and is essentially free damage now considering its dmg to AP spent ratio. It's change honestly made the skill significantly better, I don't how you cant see that.

Quote from Newpower

i am rly wondering are they gonna fix the damn rubberbanding bug with this patch

I play with low latency on beta (around 30-45) And I cant get the rubber banding to happen even when I try as hard as I can. I understand it's an issue for some select people, but it certainly isn't an issue affecting the entirety of the player base