This is something I've given a fair amount of thought to as well. I think it's safe to assume that not all high end items will fit into the tiered armor sets. Remember that weapons/shields/off hands will all have unique looks as well which will differentiate your characters.
I think Blizzard knows that everyone looking the same at level 60 would be a severe drawback to the item hunt. I have faith that Blizzard knows that parts of the item hunt that create the addictive nature of farming in D3.
Guys, I got news for you, the most important determining factor in whether a game becomes an e-Sport is NOT if it's entertaining to watch. The ALL-IMPORTANT factor is if there is MONEY involved. Where there is $$$, the competitive players will flock.
Look at LoL. Shit game, absolute shit. But there is $$ there put up by the company that owns the game. They have turned it into an e-Sport by throwing money at it.
Look at DotA2. Less of a shit game. Pretty good game. What's the first thing Valve does with it before it even gets to closed beta? Hosts a $1m tournament. They threw money at it. Now it's an e-Sport.
Look at HoN. It has a "Head of e-Sports Development" employed on its staff whose sole purpose is to find sponsors, host events, and get HoN into DreamHack.
What do these games have in common with Diablo 3? Well, a lot. They can both be considered (to some extent) multi-player online battle arenas. What do these games not have in common? The company that created D3 will NOT be throwing money at making it an e-Sport. There will not be D3 tournaments at Blizzcon (at least none that have $$ involved). This game is not like Counter-Strike or Starcraft where it is incredibly well-balanced and 100% skill based so e-Sports will naturally spring up around it. This game will be highly imbalanced, and item-dependant.
This is why D3 is not, and will not be, an e-Sport, despite what you PvPers think. You need to grow up if you think your favorite game can become an e-Sport just because a lot of people like it. WAY more goes into it than that nowadays.
That said, I want there to be a vibrant PvP community in D3. You PvPers deserve it. There may even be some $100 tournaments or something like that which may be privately sponsored every once in a while. But mark my words. There will be no big tournaments, unless someone really puts a LOT of effort into it. That someone will not be Blizzard. Who will it be? You? Do you have the kind of scratch to put together an event big enough to get D3 on the scene? I don't think so.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're misguided. I think a lot of the imbalance in PvP will come simply from the different classes skills. Seeing as how Blizzard will not be balancing them.
The thing you have to understand about a game becoming a competitive PvP game is that it absolutely has to be supported by the company creating it as such. Look at games like LoL, or DotA2. They have competitive scenes because the companies that created those games are funding the tournaments, finding the sponsors, hosting the competitions, etc. A game doesn't just suddenly appear on the docket at DreamHack, it has to get there through the hard work of a lot of people.
Nowadays, games NEED support from their companies to become an e-Sport. This is proving hard for people to understand, but it's the facts and believing that you can make D3 an e-Sport is just naive.
That said, if you're just trying to narrow the playing field in your just-for-fun PvP games (which I'm sure there will be a lot of - there might even be some for $$, but it will never ever be on the scale of other games). Then I think what you're going to have to do is ban the use of some skills/passives rather than bother with items.
They have stated multiple, multiple times that D3 will NOT be an e-sport and they will NOT be balancing around PvP.
/thread
They have no control over it being an eSport, lesser shittier balanced games have become an eSport.
"We know people are going to want to turn it into an eSport, we know that... like, but it's not going to be from any encouragement from us..." The mouth of JW himself.
If there is enough support for it, the PvP community will turn it into an eSport themselves. So you kiddies can stop coming in and saying
/thread
just because blizzard wont support it as an eSport with feature sets, does not mean it will not become an eSport.Look at LoL, they STILL dont have the eSport feature set even comparable to HoN or DotA, and they payed there way onto the eSports scene, but they are there, with the lesser skill cap of the three MOBA giants, and little to no eSports features.
As I've said before, all a game needs is popularity and a large enough pvp crowd, and a profit, and a game will create an eSport. people have this unrealistic vision that only super balanced games become eSports, which is far, far, far, far from the truth. Replays? spectator mode? Downloadable replays? Pause system for disc players? I haven't touched LoL since i got my Dota 2 invite in Oct, but LoL lacked all those eSport feature sets, AND balance, and a high skill cap like its competition. It's on the scene for one reason only POPULARITY.
If you're going to come in an talk about PvP that's fine, if you're going to come in and try to talk about eSports, that's fine, if you know wtf you're talking about. If you dont you're adding NOTHING to the conversation, zip, zero, zilch, nadda.
The fuck are you talking about. Lesser, shittier games have become e-Sports? Like what game? D3 will not be an e-Sport. It won't be balanced. It won't be supported. What's there not to understand?
And actually, you couldn't be more wrong about LoL. It's on the scene because the creators of the game offer huge prize pools for its fucking tournaments! The e-Sports portion of LoL is supported by the creators of the game - THAT'S why it exists. Not because it's popular. Holy christ. People see they can win $$ and serious gamers go there to get it. Even HoN is the same way. S2 has a head of e-Sports development employed on their staff. Even DotA2 is the same. The first DotA2 tournament was a $1m tournament hosted and funded by who? OH RIGHT. BY VALVE.
You think these games just "become" e-Sports? No. That only happens for games like Counter-Strike, which are inherently balanced because of the game type. They become e-Sports because the creators of the game encourage it and fund it. Something Blizzard will NOT be doing with D3. For a game to become an e-Sport, there must be $$ involved - and lots of it. Sponsors have to be found, tournaments have to be set up, and there has to be interest among high level gamers. I got news for you, high-end PvP in D3 does not interest serious gamers because Blizzard has stated they won't balance around it. At least other games give the impression that they are trying to balance around the competitive aspect of their game.
Watch out adon it's big brother PvM coming to tell you what diablo is and how to play it. Diablo deserves darker pastures.
No, the developers tell you what the game is and how it should be played, and obviously they think PvP should be relegated to area battles, so there you go.
Right cause the developers are always right. Just curious, what did I do for all of those years since obviously I didn't play the game correctly. I guess playing the game how you want and making it fun for you is unacceptable. BTW, Read my sig.
Actually, yes, the developers are always right on what they believe is best for their game. The game they are creating. They are always right because they are the only ones who can be right about the decisions they make. They base them off of marketing, metrics, what sells in other games, what they loved about Diablo 2, etc. etc. They do NOT make decisions based on what Adon thinks. You need to understand that your type of self-entitlement has no place in the world.
And yes, PvP is essentially the end game for me (and I'm primarily a PvMer). I hunt items so that I can slay other players. But I don't need hostility to do that. I can enjoy that part of the game in Arenas and the designated PvP games. Why not fight other players who are there to fight you. It just makes sense.
The fact that D3 will never be "competitive" in an e-Sports sense is due to the fact that they have stated they will not be balancing skills around PvP. Hence, some classes will be unbalanced. CAN people try and make it into an e-Sport? Sure, why not? Will it be successful? I highly doubt it. Only time will tell though.
The fact is that (as it should be with WoW arenas) if you want competitive gaming, SC2/DotA/CS:GO(hopefully) are your choices. I don't see D3 being in that group. PvP will be fun though.
Making big and stilyzed figures has been one of Blizzard's main art designing cornerstones for the past 10 years or so.
They've done a great job trying to make the characters look as far away possible from the Warcraft universe. If you check the barbarian armor designs from 08, you'll find out that it looks way more WoW than the current ones.
And hey, the Barb is the only class with kind of over the top shoulder/armor parts, the other ones are not all that massive
Herein lies my point: I'm a big Barbarian fan and it'll be the class I spend the most time with in Diablo III. Don't get me wrong, I want him to look like a juggernaut, but some of the shoulderguards on those armours are mental. As long as they have nice stats, I won't mind much though.
How is he supposed to look like a juggernaught with tin cans on his shoulders? Wtf? Please, show me an example of some silhouette-enhancing shoulderpads that aren't big?
People had fun in Diablo 2 making characters and figuring out how to spend roughly 100 skill points by allocating them into roughly 30 skill slots (per class), both active and passive. Some builds were serious business and some builds were just goofy builds where people had fun figuring out how to make them viable.
In Diablo 3, people will shift through different combinations of skills that have very little identity. They aren't builds, just combinations. When somebody says they are making a crit barb or an aoe barb or bash barb, you will have absolutely no way of knowing what the hell their build actually is. It's just another combination of skills that does the same crap as the next guy's.
Do all of the math you want. Go ahead. Slobber over a big passionless number that's at the end of an exponent equation. Big whoopidee doo. It's all generic combinations with very little identity. More doesn't mean better. Every Blizzard fan should know that by heart. Nobody gives a crap if your rogue build is different, They only care if your Combat rogue or your sublety rogue rips into flesh better than the other guy... or if you have the skills or rotation down pat to do so. Who would give a crap if your rogue build is skill combination #3450?
After 6+ years of development, we basically have the same situation where every build has the same purpose of killing crap, while having also having every build have less identity. We might as well just go back to Warcraft 2, where every one of our skills could be perfectly balanced, similar to have every unit in WC2 was a mirror matched unit and they did the exact same thing. Outside of making, let's say, an MF run Demon hunter or a PvM Demon Hunter, what else is there?
Diablo 2 Player: I'm leveling a whirlwind barb.
Diablo 3 Player: Cool. Well you see... my barb will have bash and leap and ignore pain and whirlwind and...
Diablo 2 Playter: Um... so that's a whirlwind barb then, right?
Diablo 3 Player: Well, yeah... but not really. There's more to it then that. You have to see my skills to understand how it all works Plus my runes are...
Diablo 2 Player: Sounds complicated and boring. Too long, didn't listen. Brb, pindleskin run.
Diablo 3 Player: Screw you, noobtrash!
Gems, gear sets and followers will have to be more in-depth to compensate. If not, you'll basically just have a maximum of five characters with an extended stash and maybe mule characters for extra storage. Why? Well every character can switch to another characters "build" simply by switching gear, at absolutely no cost. Almost 12 years have past and all we have done was go from a game where we could have multiple builds of each class (example. having a hurricane druid AND a shapeshifter druid) to a game we just have one character of each class (ex. having one druid that can just switch to any build whenever he wants just by switching skills and gear.)
Math does not make a game fun long-term. If it did, all of you guys and gals would be Actuaries in real life having a great time making a good living.
I've been reading on these forums for a while now and I've become so fed up with this argument that I've decided to actually make a post. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that you believe having to re-level a toon to respec is more meaningful than just openning your spellbook and swapping out abilities. I can see how this makes sense to some people since each toon's skills are permanent, and therefore each individual has more of a unique identity. (ie. blizzard sorc and meteor sorc).
The fact that you are ignoring though, is that in D2 it took less that 5 hours play time to level a toon to 80. On top of that, and I admit this is merely my opinion, those ~5 hours felt like a necessary but annoying chore that I had to complete before I could have some real fun. As a result, you are actually arguing that an annoying ~5 hours creates a meaningful identity that a toon in D3 will lack. I for one am glad that Blizzard does not share your opinion.
What really gives a toon a unique identity is the gear. I'd be happy to expand on this but I feel like I've already said too much for my first post.
/rant off
And asfastasican is rebuffed yet again. Don't worry, he won't respond. He never does. He just comes to shit on a conversation by bringing up the D2 vs D3 argument (which this topic is not about) and then leaves. He does not come back.
I'm still as jacked up as I was when the game was originally announced. I am really really wondering where the end game will take us, how deep the item hunt goes.
I hope it's very deep. I want the game to have a vibrant economy. There are a lot of unknowns here like how people will try to take advantage of the RMAH, how Hardcore will play out, and what people will be doing in the game two years from now. I'm excited to find out.
People need to learn that this sense of entitlement that leads them to complain about things they don't like about a game being developed by a company according to their own design plans is not productive. They need to realize that in no way shape or form does Blizzard need to adhere to an individual's own personal tastes. Blizzard designs a game based on what they think people want. A lot of discussion and forethought is put into these decisions and there is a large "silent majority" supporting each one that Blizzard makes.
If the game is not made the way you want, that's a shame. That's unfortunate for you. But understand that the game will still probably be fun for you, and that if you want to make games your way, you can. Go to school, learn programming languages, get a job in the industry, pay your dues, get your certifications, learn the business, and eventually you might be in a position to make those decisions, or help make them. But until then you are at the mercy of game designers, and nothing you complain and whine about is going to affect that.
The only thing that will, is your pocketbook. Don't support what you don't like, support what you do, and the majority will rule.
No, I haven't read the books, hence my reference to the wiki page on Uldyssian. I had no idea who he was so I read the wiki on him.
I never see Trag'Oul mentioned on these boards or on Blizzard's forums.
Most likely he's a non-entity in D3, and he would probably seem too outlandish to most people who aren't involved in the lore. Not to mention all the "OMG D3 HAS DRAGONS WTF BLIZZARD STOP MAKING THIS GAME WOW" comments that would ensue.
So, I ran across a brief reference to "Trag'Oul" in the Wiki article on Uldyssian, and I had never heard of this dragon. You heard me: there is a dragon in Diablo.
At any rate, at the bottom of the article there's a little paragraph claiming that Rob Pardo has let it slip that there are other worlds in the Diablo universe aside from Sanctuary, Heaven, and Hell. There is, apparently, a reference to other guardians such as Trag'Oul, keeping watch over other worlds.
Is it possible that we may be introduced to one of these other worlds in this game, and that the expansion might take place therein?
I don't think they do have world first achievements ecutruin, but they do have date stamped achievements so I can prove when I became 60 and see if anyone did it earlier than me. As someone said in a different thread, people who make it a goal to do something first want it to be known.
I thought the implications of being a HC D2 Veteran was obvious but I guess not. You're right, we haven't seen all the monster types or content, but that doesn't mean I don't know what happens in HC when you rush in recklessly, blind and unprepared. You don't really understand how careful you have to play if you don't actually play HC, and being careful is equally applicable to D3 as it is to D2.
I think a lot of people assume rushing means playing recklessly. That's pretty much the exact opposite because as Ecutruin points out, we don't know the content, especially the first playthrough so my first playthrough each difficult is going to be extremely cautious and controlled. We're going to be going as fast as we can in that regard (ie as fast as viably possible).
This poor guy... all you naysayers need to stop trying to hijack his thread with "YOU CAN'T DO IT" posts. You think someone that goes slowly, approaches every champion pack carefully, and moves methodically through the game will get world first. How do you know this guy will not take that approach?
Just fuck off, seriously, and let him recruit the people he needs.
can't wait to read the WD short story tomorrow when the reveal site is up w/ him
this video made him look fuckin badass. i played a wd in beta to level 11 (enough to get firebats), some of the earlier skills are really meh, but in this video he seems to be blowing shit up good enough.
The only thing I have to say about Wizard. is that I was the least impressed with their skill selection in the beta.. Like every skill was just Meh... Except the Orb one.. Other than that it was just sort of lack luster I thought. Not damage wise just aesthetically.
This forum is only big enough for one FFT avatar... Plus Delita is a cocksucker.
0
I think Blizzard knows that everyone looking the same at level 60 would be a severe drawback to the item hunt. I have faith that Blizzard knows that parts of the item hunt that create the addictive nature of farming in D3.
1
Look at LoL. Shit game, absolute shit. But there is $$ there put up by the company that owns the game. They have turned it into an e-Sport by throwing money at it.
Look at DotA2. Less of a shit game. Pretty good game. What's the first thing Valve does with it before it even gets to closed beta? Hosts a $1m tournament. They threw money at it. Now it's an e-Sport.
Look at HoN. It has a "Head of e-Sports Development" employed on its staff whose sole purpose is to find sponsors, host events, and get HoN into DreamHack.
What do these games have in common with Diablo 3? Well, a lot. They can both be considered (to some extent) multi-player online battle arenas. What do these games not have in common? The company that created D3 will NOT be throwing money at making it an e-Sport. There will not be D3 tournaments at Blizzcon (at least none that have $$ involved). This game is not like Counter-Strike or Starcraft where it is incredibly well-balanced and 100% skill based so e-Sports will naturally spring up around it. This game will be highly imbalanced, and item-dependant.
This is why D3 is not, and will not be, an e-Sport, despite what you PvPers think. You need to grow up if you think your favorite game can become an e-Sport just because a lot of people like it. WAY more goes into it than that nowadays.
That said, I want there to be a vibrant PvP community in D3. You PvPers deserve it. There may even be some $100 tournaments or something like that which may be privately sponsored every once in a while. But mark my words. There will be no big tournaments, unless someone really puts a LOT of effort into it. That someone will not be Blizzard. Who will it be? You? Do you have the kind of scratch to put together an event big enough to get D3 on the scene? I don't think so.
0
The thing you have to understand about a game becoming a competitive PvP game is that it absolutely has to be supported by the company creating it as such. Look at games like LoL, or DotA2. They have competitive scenes because the companies that created those games are funding the tournaments, finding the sponsors, hosting the competitions, etc. A game doesn't just suddenly appear on the docket at DreamHack, it has to get there through the hard work of a lot of people.
Nowadays, games NEED support from their companies to become an e-Sport. This is proving hard for people to understand, but it's the facts and believing that you can make D3 an e-Sport is just naive.
That said, if you're just trying to narrow the playing field in your just-for-fun PvP games (which I'm sure there will be a lot of - there might even be some for $$, but it will never ever be on the scale of other games). Then I think what you're going to have to do is ban the use of some skills/passives rather than bother with items.
0
The fuck are you talking about. Lesser, shittier games have become e-Sports? Like what game? D3 will not be an e-Sport. It won't be balanced. It won't be supported. What's there not to understand?
And actually, you couldn't be more wrong about LoL. It's on the scene because the creators of the game offer huge prize pools for its fucking tournaments! The e-Sports portion of LoL is supported by the creators of the game - THAT'S why it exists. Not because it's popular. Holy christ. People see they can win $$ and serious gamers go there to get it. Even HoN is the same way. S2 has a head of e-Sports development employed on their staff. Even DotA2 is the same. The first DotA2 tournament was a $1m tournament hosted and funded by who? OH RIGHT. BY VALVE.
You think these games just "become" e-Sports? No. That only happens for games like Counter-Strike, which are inherently balanced because of the game type. They become e-Sports because the creators of the game encourage it and fund it. Something Blizzard will NOT be doing with D3. For a game to become an e-Sport, there must be $$ involved - and lots of it. Sponsors have to be found, tournaments have to be set up, and there has to be interest among high level gamers. I got news for you, high-end PvP in D3 does not interest serious gamers because Blizzard has stated they won't balance around it. At least other games give the impression that they are trying to balance around the competitive aspect of their game.
fucking /thread.
0
Actually, yes, the developers are always right on what they believe is best for their game. The game they are creating. They are always right because they are the only ones who can be right about the decisions they make. They base them off of marketing, metrics, what sells in other games, what they loved about Diablo 2, etc. etc. They do NOT make decisions based on what Adon thinks. You need to understand that your type of self-entitlement has no place in the world.
And yes, PvP is essentially the end game for me (and I'm primarily a PvMer). I hunt items so that I can slay other players. But I don't need hostility to do that. I can enjoy that part of the game in Arenas and the designated PvP games. Why not fight other players who are there to fight you. It just makes sense.
The fact that D3 will never be "competitive" in an e-Sports sense is due to the fact that they have stated they will not be balancing skills around PvP. Hence, some classes will be unbalanced. CAN people try and make it into an e-Sport? Sure, why not? Will it be successful? I highly doubt it. Only time will tell though.
The fact is that (as it should be with WoW arenas) if you want competitive gaming, SC2/DotA/CS:GO(hopefully) are your choices. I don't see D3 being in that group. PvP will be fun though.
0
How is he supposed to look like a juggernaught with tin cans on his shoulders? Wtf? Please, show me an example of some silhouette-enhancing shoulderpads that aren't big?
..wtf is wrong with people.
0
And asfastasican is rebuffed yet again. Don't worry, he won't respond. He never does. He just comes to shit on a conversation by bringing up the D2 vs D3 argument (which this topic is not about) and then leaves. He does not come back.
0
I hope it's very deep. I want the game to have a vibrant economy. There are a lot of unknowns here like how people will try to take advantage of the RMAH, how Hardcore will play out, and what people will be doing in the game two years from now. I'm excited to find out.
0
If the game is not made the way you want, that's a shame. That's unfortunate for you. But understand that the game will still probably be fun for you, and that if you want to make games your way, you can. Go to school, learn programming languages, get a job in the industry, pay your dues, get your certifications, learn the business, and eventually you might be in a position to make those decisions, or help make them. But until then you are at the mercy of game designers, and nothing you complain and whine about is going to affect that.
The only thing that will, is your pocketbook. Don't support what you don't like, support what you do, and the majority will rule.
0
I never see Trag'Oul mentioned on these boards or on Blizzard's forums.
Most likely he's a non-entity in D3, and he would probably seem too outlandish to most people who aren't involved in the lore. Not to mention all the "OMG D3 HAS DRAGONS WTF BLIZZARD STOP MAKING THIS GAME WOW" comments that would ensue.
0
http://www.diablowiki.net/Trag'Oul
At any rate, at the bottom of the article there's a little paragraph claiming that Rob Pardo has let it slip that there are other worlds in the Diablo universe aside from Sanctuary, Heaven, and Hell. There is, apparently, a reference to other guardians such as Trag'Oul, keeping watch over other worlds.
Is it possible that we may be introduced to one of these other worlds in this game, and that the expansion might take place therein?
0
/thread
0
This poor guy... all you naysayers need to stop trying to hijack his thread with "YOU CAN'T DO IT" posts. You think someone that goes slowly, approaches every champion pack carefully, and moves methodically through the game will get world first. How do you know this guy will not take that approach?
Just fuck off, seriously, and let him recruit the people he needs.
0
this video made him look fuckin badass. i played a wd in beta to level 11 (enough to get firebats), some of the earlier skills are really meh, but in this video he seems to be blowing shit up good enough.
looks fun
1
This forum is only big enough for one FFT avatar... Plus Delita is a cocksucker.