1 - Make MF not compete with dps/survival stats(affixes). MF would only compete with gold find, Experience and Radius grab. The thing is MF is a personal stat whereas dps and survival are coop stats, this way MF only compete with personal stats like GF, Exp. Is not losing dps for MF really a problem ? I don't think so but it would make gooditem+MF much better and valuable than gooditem (or gooditem+GF) though.
2 - Average MF across the group. Other players help you kill monsters you help them loot. Problem is what happens when the MF player is also stronger than the other ? Also since I get MF from another player and keep my DPS, I get everything and don't see the point losing DPS; the MF player becomes a MF bot.
So maybe an average with only player stronger than you. The game would calculate two scores a dps score and a MFscore. Every player share their MF score with players with higher dps.
Example:
Player 1 300DPS 50MF
Player 2 350DPS 150MF
Player 3 320DPS 80MF
Player 1 would share his 50 MF across all 3 players, player 2 would not share his MF, player 3 would share his MF only with player 2.
The ammount shared could be proportionate to the difference in DPS.
Player 2 is 16% more than P1, P3 is 6% more. P2 is 9% more dps than P3. Therefore Player 2 get 16% of 50MF from P1, 9% from P3, Player 3 get 6% of 50MF from P1. Player 1 get nothing. The players that give % also lose this % themselves.
Finally
Player 1 39MF (50-8-3)
Player 2 165MF (150+8+7)
Player 3 74MF (80+3-7)
A system along those lines seem fair to me (this is a rapid formula, maybe something is even better but that is fairer than a raw average I think). Note that if say Player2 had no MF and was just aiming for DPS he would only have 15MF. Still he carries the other players so he is getting a small boost to his MF.
For me the 1st solution is the better of the two (and better than nothing).
My guess though is game will ship as it is, they will work on the problem later on once the average player sees it as an issue, for laucnch and a couple month into the game only dedicated players will see it as a problem, not the mass.
It would be very difficult to setup the game in the way you are suggesting in #2. This game isn't really just about DPS, as each player is to some extent the tank/dps/healer. Furthermore, I don't think what you are suggesting is something that should be implemented regardless.
Differences in skill and gear will exist no matter what you do. If you group with random people, then you will come across some people who are mediocre. That is just the way it is. If you do not want to take that chance, then you need to play with your friends or solo.
I am still confused as to why it matters if the person with you is wearing a lot of magic find. Yes this is a coop game and yes working together is key to downing some of the higher difficulties. But it comes down to that player also has the same goals as the group and does not have to live to achieve that. If that person is not "pulling his weight" pve wise that doesn't absolutely hinder your own progression in that if he fails to live or fails to dps correctly that doesn't mean your group is doomed or even has to sacrifice themselves to save him.
Let that player die, I have seen many times over the years players who just don't understand how the game works running in with the group and not pulling back at the right time or just not doing anything productive mobs wise and being utterly destroyed in the process. Why does it matter what they want MF wise if he thinks he can play with it then fine. I trust in every players ability to access the situation and play as I am. We shouldn't change game mechanics or even cater to these players by adding more stats to items. Damage wise yes he isn't doing as much as say someone who is pure +attack but so are the people who are playing more defensively in their builds why should we cater to the MF whores and not to the tankers who never want to die.
I digress maybe I just don't fully understand the concept of the argument when it shocks me to see these posts on both the game forums and on diablofans.
Barbarians kite when it is necessary to lure the foes into another group of their friends so all will experience the destruction in one fearful pack of victims....
I personally just don't feel like Hammer of the Ancients is a very good ability. Yea it has a +15% chance to crit, but the animation and the radius of the aoe from the point of impact just seems to small. My hammer will visibly hit a nearby mob and yet do no damage to it. It's just not for me I guess.
Im also taking into account I am Dual Wielding in this build by the way so my rage regen is pretty intense. But as stated above I guess I can just spam abilities spenders more even when cleave seemed to be more optimal in some situations. But yes the point that we just don't know what it is going to be like is very true.
On the note about Hammer of the Ancients I saw it being a very viable ability when applied to a hybrid theory of facing both multiple mobs and a more powerful elite mob. Both providing a slow for possible kiting and also having a aoe it seemed like the proper choice for most situations we would come across while trying to reach our objectives.
It's hard to say without knowing exactly what it is you want from your build. I tend to over think things a great deal and try to visualize every little possibility, but I play exclusively hardcore and it just requires a different mind set. I focus on pure survival first and foremost where as you want a more damage centric build, from what I can tell, with less emphasis put on survival.
If I had take your build and replace your Berserker Fury with some other passive I would choose, with softcore max damage play in mind, Weapon Mastery. Now if you were dead set on keeping Berserker Rage then I would replace sprint with Leap or Furious Charge and call it good so long as you kept Hammer of Ancients to a minimal. The more time you have less than 100% fury the less BR is doing you any good of course.
Of course none of this takes into account what runes you're using or anything.
So even with weapon optimization on health regen prioritization would this build not be viable with even dungeon crawling? Im assuming hardcore is just a 1 death limit and not a complete difficulty overhaul. Seeing how a hammer smash and run for a pot CD could keep you alive. The only reason berserker fury is playing a part right now is due to in beta from my experience going through trash and what not my fury is completely maxed and seeing how that can put a lot of static damage is there a better choice?
I assume you'll be playing softcore since you didn't specify otherwise so the learning curve will be much gentler for you. You'll be free to try anything you want, but my one suggestion is to change out Berserker Rage. You've got 3 fury spenders 1 situational and 2 generators. Unless you just don't plan on using 3 of your abilities hardly ever BR just won't do you much good at all compared to something else.
Was thinking Beserker Rage was more for trash since the game hits on that a lot and moving towards a more survivable ability before bosses or even hard elite mobs. But yes that is a weak point in the build do you think focusing more on a movement generator or even a cooldown would be better?
It is lacking in survivability and CC but the damage output seems to be in an overall good direction with some varying abilities for certain boss situations.
Just trying to bounce ideas of someone so be gentle.
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I am still confused as to why it matters if the person with you is wearing a lot of magic find. Yes this is a coop game and yes working together is key to downing some of the higher difficulties. But it comes down to that player also has the same goals as the group and does not have to live to achieve that. If that person is not "pulling his weight" pve wise that doesn't absolutely hinder your own progression in that if he fails to live or fails to dps correctly that doesn't mean your group is doomed or even has to sacrifice themselves to save him.
Let that player die, I have seen many times over the years players who just don't understand how the game works running in with the group and not pulling back at the right time or just not doing anything productive mobs wise and being utterly destroyed in the process. Why does it matter what they want MF wise if he thinks he can play with it then fine. I trust in every players ability to access the situation and play as I am. We shouldn't change game mechanics or even cater to these players by adding more stats to items. Damage wise yes he isn't doing as much as say someone who is pure +attack but so are the people who are playing more defensively in their builds why should we cater to the MF whores and not to the tankers who never want to die.
I digress maybe I just don't fully understand the concept of the argument when it shocks me to see these posts on both the game forums and on diablofans.
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That is what Happens when you leave us Corsir.
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Im also taking into account I am Dual Wielding in this build by the way so my rage regen is pretty intense. But as stated above I guess I can just spam abilities spenders more even when cleave seemed to be more optimal in some situations. But yes the point that we just don't know what it is going to be like is very true.
On the note about Hammer of the Ancients I saw it being a very viable ability when applied to a hybrid theory of facing both multiple mobs and a more powerful elite mob. Both providing a slow for possible kiting and also having a aoe it seemed like the proper choice for most situations we would come across while trying to reach our objectives.
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So even with weapon optimization on health regen prioritization would this build not be viable with even dungeon crawling? Im assuming hardcore is just a 1 death limit and not a complete difficulty overhaul. Seeing how a hammer smash and run for a pot CD could keep you alive. The only reason berserker fury is playing a part right now is due to in beta from my experience going through trash and what not my fury is completely maxed and seeing how that can put a lot of static damage is there a better choice?
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Was thinking Beserker Rage was more for trash since the game hits on that a lot and moving towards a more survivable ability before bosses or even hard elite mobs. But yes that is a weak point in the build do you think focusing more on a movement generator or even a cooldown would be better?
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#acYZPj!ZXd!YZYcZZ
It is lacking in survivability and CC but the damage output seems to be in an overall good direction with some varying abilities for certain boss situations.
Just trying to bounce ideas of someone so be gentle.