DiabloFans

Quote from Odin

TheDFO wow, thats a great response thanks for that we may differ in tastes but kept it civil. Total opposite to the crap GladHeHasBeta is doing.

lmao. ive kept it civil, your just getting butt hurt because you got TOLLD and have nothing to retort with. come up with a better excuse to not reply then ima meanie.

but seriously your arguments are weak and just because someone is aggressively arguing doesnt make it not civil. come up with better come backs bud

deja vu a billion times.

"diablo is like wow"
"diablo has no customization"
"diablo isnt diablo because its online-only"
"diablo with RMAH is greedy"
"im no longer buying Diablo because its not out yet"

or of course "diablo is exactly like wow with no customization and because its online-only because its all about the RMAH and im no longer buying it because of that and its not out yet"

next major patch will be the last before release. i predict

Quote from kanzaki_urumi

Awesome stuff

You are brilliant and intelligent

maybe if you had a good argument people would take you seriously /sad face

Quote from ArcaneWeapon

Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

you were fine until here. wrong, just like i said. spell damage scales/increases/improves with both attack AND weapon base damage.

Actually you're wrong. Spell damage is based PURELY off of weapon damage. Attack happens to increase weapon damage, THUS also increasing spell damage since it's based ON weapon damage.

Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

lol..... you always seem to argue for no reason at all. your post was pointless and were back where we started.

You shouldn't talk to yourself like this, it's a sign of insanity.

you never come back with anything good arcane, you should really stop replying to me. or in general if your only going to flame as usual.

spell damage is NOT based "purely" on weapon dmg. we went over this kid, its based on BOTH attack attribute AND wpn damage, this is proven by looking at your overall Damage in the beta. each point of attack increases spell dmg (aka OVERALL damge, NOT just "wpn dmg")? OMFG CRAZY! its really insane and funny how you and super are so ignorant to facts like that. the blue post is worded poorly, beta proves this.

EDIT: let me break it down for you in organized simplier terms so you can grasp it:

there are 3 sepparate entities for flat damage in diablo for casters (not counting crit chances):

1. weapon damage number (the plain 140-170 dmg listed for the weapons damage)
2. the amount of attack attribute you have from all of your gear
3. overall damage(AKA spell damage, the damage your spell does when you cast it) which is calculated from 1 and 2

what i believe you and superfula are implying is that "spell damage" and "overall damage" are two sepparate things, they are not. thats where the confusion started.

Quote from superfula

Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?

First, you need to stop confusing "scale" with "increase", as they are not the same. While a spell's damage is increased by several stats, it scales with only one.

What we know...
Spells ONLY scale with weapon damage. How do we know this? A blue post saying exactly that, spell tooltips show that they do a % of weapon damage, and it's easily provable in the beta. There's no question about this, so arguing that spells scale with Attack is fruitless. There's just nothing to back that claim up. But I think once you stop using "scale" and "increase" interchangeably, you'll see this.

As far as Attack goes, it will certainly increase the damage spells will do. No one is saying otherwise (well, except maybe Force in his video). How do we know spells don't scale with Attack? Blue post and very easily provable in the beta. What happens if you were to add an item with +35 Attack to a naked toon? Your dps would go up a point or two, if that. Now, what happens when you have a nice weapon and some +Damage gear? That 35 Attack is worth significantly more. Why? Because Attack = a % of your total Damage. 35 Attack = 35% Damage. Which is higher....35% of 10 or 35% of 100? Attack scales indirectly with your Weapon Damage and directly with the total Damage you can do. No Damage? Attack is next to worthless. Lots of Damage? Attack is more valuable.

the whole point of this thread is because the blue post is worded poorly. the fact that you need to explain it in the first place proves that its wrong. lol

scale, if you read it in the dictionary. means 1.
a succession or progression of steps or degrees; graduated series:

progression: increasing, moving forward, climbing

they ARE interchangable. lol...

but saying "your attack attribute increases (scales) with your weapon damage" is completely false. attack scales/increases with how much you get of the attribute from all of your gear, NOT just attack on your weapon. so if you have 10 base attack and you wear gloves that add +7 its scaling with your gloves, not your weapon. and if you have a weapon that doesnt have any attack on it, then it doesnt scale at all with your weapon.

if you had a white weapon with 20 dmg, and you have 10 base attack. and then u get a white weapon with 40 dmg, your attack would STILL be 10. were talking an attribute, NOT overall damage which i think thats what your confusing "attack" with. regardless of what attack does is irrelavant. the attribute itself does not increase without + to it from gear.

Quote from superfula

Yes and no. Increasing damage and "scaling" are different. While both refer to ways a spell can do more damage, if a spell "scales" with a stat, that stat affects spells much more than anything else. Attack increases the damage your spells do above and beyond that. The value of Attack is also directly dependent upon your weapon damage. You can do a lot of damage with a good weapon yet have no Attack items. Alternately, if you simply stack Attack and have a crappy beginner weapon, your spells won't do much of anything. So essentially your spells and Attack both scale with weapon damage.

im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?

Quote from Serix69

I don't get whats so confusing. Spells only SCALE with weapon damage, and attack can "increase" their damage further. Blizzard specifically said they want the spells to now scale with weapon damage only, and not levels. Simple, not wrong, not confusing.

anything that "increases" something makes it "scale". does weapon damage not increase? therefor making the spells "scale"? exactly how attack power does. so you would say "spells scale with attack power" just as you would say "spells scale with weapon damage" because they do. therefor its another thing they scale with. it IS worded badly.

Quote from Ottosen

Equipping a pair of gloves on my wizard (in patch 9) increases my DPS in the stat tab.

good. so then the blue post doesnt make sense when it says "ONLY effected by weapon damage". implying the 1 and only. lol. i can maybe see why the "+lightning dmg" shit doesnt work for spells and only melee, but i still think its lame and should be changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBsXl3dnBQ

this video about the "caster damage" part doesnt make sense. even the blue post about it is wrong or just worded wrong. because attack effects damage and is on most weapons and effects all damage even casters. his video is therefor spreading confused false info and needs to be corrected.

the WD spell "soul harvest" increases attack, why would a caster have a spell like that if it doesnt help him at all?

they REALLY need to reclerify this. because if this is the case then the attack attribute on all weapons is 100% useless for casters or anything that boosts damage such as "adds 1-6 lightning damage". this would severely gimp the WD and Wiz damage wise. unless there spell damage was super increased for every skill i dont see this being true.

**its confirmed attack effects caster spells in the beta. so this is definitely worded badly.

Quote from wishedhehadbeta

im sorry to tell you that none of those things increase like they did in D2.

the ONLY thing that changes from solo to co-op is monster HP and monster Damage. that is all. the drops, chance of drops, amount of monsters and gold do not increase at all. it was made this way to avoid making co-op the end-all for item hunting.

also unless you have a group of friends to play with, playing solo will yield better farming because your MF/GF isnt averaged out between the group and you'd be able to kill faster since monster hp is increased by 110% PER person who joins in Inferno

With a 15% damage increase per person added onto this in Inferno...(As he mentioned generally in his entry paragraph)...The person would have to be able to bring something to the team defensively.

Like he said; if you don't know the person and you can't corroborate with them....then you may as well not play with them. They need to not only pull their own weight, but find ways to bring synergy to the table to reduce the impact of an increase in damage.


Mantras, are an example.

Quote from Antirepublican

Pulling #s out of your ass doesn't change the fact you only get 14 mana from poison dart, and its hard to spam. Its crap. There are far better options for getting mana.

I was going to just red tag spider queen as I recalled it sucked, so I couldn't motivate myself to scour the internet to find the outdated details fo the skill.

I already said grouping eels were good....

Spirit barrage spirit of the willing - Its easy not to miss....unless you suck.

Haunt- Draining spirit - Why are you considering regen? That makes no sense. If its a spell that's supposed to restore mana, then it should be able to do that. This one, not so much. At best you might break even, making this rune ok.

Bad medicine pretty much sucks outside of group play, and there are far better ways to apply it beside pets.

Frightening Aspect:- Mobs are supposed to be feared, you shouldnt need an armor bonus. There are better options that this rune. Though horrify is mediocre compared to mass confusion anyways.

Quote from Antirepublican

Frightening Aspect:- Mobs are supposed to be feared, you shouldnt need an armor bonus. There are better options that this rune. Though horrify is mediocre compared to mass confusion anyways.

Maybe PvP? *derp*

Quote from Antirepublican

Haunt- Draining spirit - Why are you considering regen? That makes no sense. If its a spell that's supposed to restore mana, then it should be able to do that. This one, not so much. At best you might break even, making this rune ok.

Z-Oh my fucking god. *facepalm*

Lets say have 500 max mana and a regeneration rate of 30 mana per second. Then I cast Draining Spirit that costs 100 mana, and generates 10 mana per second. Do you see the correlation between the two bolded passages?

(500 - 100 = 400) <--- That's my total mana

... (30 + 10 = 40) <--- That's how much I'm regenerating per second


How long will it take me to regenerate the 100 mana lost from casting Draining Spirit?
2.5 fucking seconds

Basic math buddy...

Quote from Antirepublican

Bad medicine pretty much sucks outside of group play, and there are far better ways to apply it beside pets.

Would it be so far fetched as combine something like this?
http://us.battle.net...S...Y!Zc!.a...a

It's called "options"

I'm..... I'm sorry. Not to troll or flame, but how can you rate on skills you've never used?! There's so many little factors that don't show up on the tooltip! GJ on putting this together, but it honestly means nothing.

pick your 4 favorite skills

those last 2 spots? nothing is better than pets. you already have your best damage spells, and pets do *some* damage, so already they have a dps advantage over everything else that would be doing nothing most of the time. pets are 'always on' defense. no other spell matches that.

no matter what 4 spells you pick or what passives you choose, those 2 spots are for pets if you want the better build. i might play a petless WD at some point just for the fun of it, but i'm going to do so understanding it's significantly worse.

Quote from gurg0

i don't understand why ppl complain that 4ppl party is not worth it
430% hp and 145% dmg is nothing compared what u can get even from crapy set up 4ppl party only problem i might see is on HC where 145% dmg might cause issue in certain situations

what u get in 4 ppl group

4x BASE dmg
4x effective hp
4x crowd control
4x targets(less likely u are going to be chased)
sure if we talk about cakewalk farming solo is going to be better (but even in beta where everything was so overgeared full party runs was faster since u could find entrances faster when u split)
but if we talk about inferno runs with still not optimal gear u can easy get 2-3x faster with full group cause u spend so much time kiteing crowdcontroling cause u alone sux and group synergies are pretty strong if u look in to them

So many things wrong with this.

1.) It won't be 400% damage. It's pretty much impossible to have that kind of efficiency in a group. There will be wasted damage, overkill and lost DPS from entering the fight at slightly different times.
2.) 4x effective HP? You act like the group forms into some sort of Voltron and a single character is spawned. The characters keep their same HP so a single character can get overwhelmed just as easily... in fact more so because of the much increased damage.
3.) It's already been stated that high level monsters will be resistant to CC effects. In Inferno, it's highly unlikely that CC sticks around for even 50% of its duration. Also, this is another area where it's difficult to be efficient in a group and not to waste a CC while someone else uses theirs.
4.) If you're a good player, there's no reason to party unless you have a group of players you know that are exactly the same gear level/skill level as you. It's just not possible to carry a single person with buffs that high. If you played the beta, you'd realize how even at +75% monster HP, things would die so much slower when you have a crappy person in your group (compared to playing solo). It was fine at 75% because that helped to make up for A) the inefficiency of groups in general and B.) Possibly getting someone that isn't as geared/good as yourself.
5.) Everyone forgets that you also get a follower in single player. Yeah, it's not a lot of damage, but some of the followers do have some pretty awesome buffs.

Now... a good player has no reason to group unless it's a premade group and even then... let's hope they are the same gear level as you.

Everyone and their dog is making posts about trying to get world's first 60. I'm here to tell you why its not a big deal, and suggest an alternative!

1.) No one remembers who gets the first level capped character, it will not bring you fame or E-peen. There will be many people at level 60 within days of release, and no one will give a shit about it by the end of the month.
2.) No one person will get first 60, because at least a dozen people will claim that they did it. AFAIK there's no way to prove it short of screenshots/video/other easily faked methods.
3.) Thousands of people will hit level cap within a few hours of the first person who manages it. You aren't special, you merely had the free time and perhaps a little more than your fair share of luck (IE XP shrines, finding the right path on your first try in a lot of places, etc)

Being able to invest the kind of time to reach 60 in a few days isn't an accomplishment. This is from someone who took time off work for release--I, like you, could be doing this exact thing. However, my first level 60 will probably be my slowest, since this will be my first time playing the game and I want to experience it fully. If I were to race to level 60, I would ruin the game for myself, enjoying it less in the name of a worthless goal.

Not everyone has to agree with me, but I hope some of you will be dissuaded from this stupidity and avoid ruining your first play through.

If you are looking for something more worthwhile, the first person/group to beat Inferno will probably be much more prominent, seeing as its actually a skill challenge instead of a time investment. Unlike the race to 60, Inferno is something that not everyone can do, and is a real accomplishment.

One component of that WILL be hitting level 60 quickly, but that is not THE goal, and it doesn't require that you do it first--only that you do it in a timely fashion. Skill will be the biggest component beyond that point, and the best individuals and groups will get ahead not by crunching (well, not entirely) but by being tactical and coordinating.

As an example of how this might appeal to people who ARE only interested in e-peen, its worth noting that the important and memorable "world firsts" of games like WoW were not hitting level caps, but defeating big tough raid bosses.

*Prepares for onslaught of hatred for mentioning WOW*

The point is that this leveling mentality is an artifact from the silly ladder system in Diablo 2, and the broken way the level cap operated (IE being far higher than anyone ever had any need to attain). Don't let the flaws of D2 corrupt your first experience of D3!

Quote from necro2607

Man, I'm going to be totally honest here because I think a dash of honesty might open some eyes. I find it totally disheartening and pretty depressing how so many people are dishing out personal attacks and insults towards people who aren't happy with the whole FoS/sigil thing. This kind of crap really reminds me why I rarely post on forums.

Seriously, I want to have some real discussion but nearly every response I receive is some kind of insult or attack. I don't see why I'll ever post here again when this is the way people are treated here. I'm here to have a discussion - whether right or wrong, whether we agree or not. I didn't come here to have people tell me I'm "mentally deficient" or to "get the stick out of my ass" or "stop bitching like a 5 year old for christ's sake". What an unbelievably worthless excuse for a "discussion".

Edit: I'm not even exaggerating, I'm now going to bed in a totally shitty mood because I thought I'd have some genuine debate/discussion about this issue but all I got was a bunch of people totally shitting on me and plenty of others. Thanks, I really appreciate it.

WOW. I don't want to make personal attacks or demean you and I've only read the posts on the first few pages and this page. But wow. The only thing that comes to my mind is how old are you?

If you're in your late 20's or older and are holding a steady job supporting yourself and perhaps a family, then you sound really immature. You're telling me that in life you've never encountered lucky bastards who won something while you didn't ? (eg. Winning a lottery or game giveaway) never encountered a situation where you weren't picked for a group either social or sports or otherwise? Where there was a gift/toy/item that you really wanted but so did everyone else and you had to wait a few months? (Eg. iPad launch) When investing in the stock market or your 401k, and how some people who picked stocks which skyrocketed in value despite the market and your portfolio going down?

Blizzard using whatever algorithmic formula they used picked Random people for Diablo 3 closed beta. It was completely luck of the draw. They now want to give those people a Feat of Strength which gives a sigil banner unlock. There are going to be tens of dozens of sigil unlocks just from gameplay. One more isn't going to make a difference to anyone in the grand scheme of things.

Also you made a comment about special Dye + Wings in a previous post that you're losing out on? Anyone buying a collector's edition get's this. You just needed to have 2 criteria. (1) Shell out the cash for a CE D3 box (2) Had been a devoted fan of diablo (or luck) and pre-ordered a box. I can only assume by your post number that you're new to diablofans.com so either you were on another diablo fan site or you are only a casual fan of the game. Some of us have literally been following this game for years and were just waiting for the CE to be available. That's why it sold out in less than a day when initially offered.

Back to my main point, if you're in your late 20's or older and are crying out at the unfairness of people getting a feat of strength, you have bigger issues that a game. If you're not yet in your late 20's and are and are crying out at the unfairness of this, then its a life lesson. One of many you will encounter, so deal with it, see a shrink, find an outlet, whatever. Otherwise you'll find yourself in a whole heap of trouble in a few more years.

You don't want real discussion because this is a non-issue to a rational mature adult. And this sounds bad but Shit Happens, get over it.

I had beta. I will have that achievment.

I am choosen one.

Deal with it...