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Quote from Red_Panda

Quote from wishedhehadbeta

no offense but nice way to say aboslutely nothing. and no one is using pets for damage. they are meant to be TANKS, they might as well do no damage. the extra dmg isnt anything to count on. you just count on each one distracting 1 monster a piece at least which will be great with 4 dogs + garg. 5 inferno mobs distracted at all times during all fights will be amazing for you to lob your powerful ranged attacks without nearly as much panic if you had none.

The dogs doing no damage would make them rather pointless. On-top of that you don't know the exact mechanics and numbers behind their scaling methods. They could be "okay" or they could be "great".

Knowing that they work is one thing; knowing how well they can work is another.

Your behavior really astounds me. If you really knew as much as you did you'd be a millionaire and writing dozens of books a year.

Am I disputing the facts about pets? No I never said that they won't win out. I just said that they're not the end-all be-all and that for all we know due to many factors we are not aware of (when it comes to the inner workings and numbers) - They could be placed close enough to other utility skills for the disparity to not really matter.

Also: What about the situations where you fight 20-40 monsters at once? Your situation only seems to account for 5 mobs.

Quote from Red_Panda

With all due respect - I don't think pets are the end-all be-all solution. I don't think they vastly out-weigh the other options either.

I obviously don't feel like putting numbers or math into this post right now (mostly because I'm not really trying to discredit you, just throwing in my opinion)

But..

Pets will be nice and everything...but I see them as being a waste if you're not going to go all-in or at least dedicate part of your build for them.

There are other spells like Mass Confusion and Zombie Wall that you can use...Obviously they won't have constant up-time like pets (assuming said pets haven't been slain while the skill is on CD)..

but...I think it's just play-style more than anything. If you look at the numbers...the pets really only add up to like 70% weapon damage. You have to count for their movement speed, their attack frames, where the enemies are, if they're alive or not, etc. There are a lot of factors going into the pets.

I'm just saying that you have to count all of the factors in and think about it..

I think you guys are just placing too much thought into the "if" statement of them being alive. There are other factors that can go against my opinion; such as how high the CC resist of Inferno mobs can go, mob behavior and skills (think of the Sand Leapers in A2 D2), etc.

That's why I'm not putting any numbers into it or anything. There are just a lot of factors that go into both sides of the equations and I think at the end of the day we'll see the ultimate truth when it comes to application once we have our grimy little paws on Inferno..

Quote from kendro1200

Quote from Antirepublican

You will never be as strong as a WD with pets, but it might be playable.

We don't know that for certain yet. All we know for certain is that in-house Blizzard's testers found it more difficult to play without pets. Some Blizzard testers who have contributed to this comment have less than a hundred hours total in playing the game. Since Feburary, I've done over a couple hundred hours of beta testing. I have no experience in the later difficulty levels, but I do know that I spent a lot of time with the Witch Doctor, and playing petless always felt different between most patches and you had to adjust. We have no information to confirm or deny how much experience the people who came to the conclusion who played petless, and found the game harder, had with the Witch Doctor class before making their statements.
For all we know the statement and data was gathered from people in-house that are in truth absolutely horrible with the Witch Doctor class, or they are in fact just plainly doing it wrong. We won't know until later next week, after people have beat normal and start moving into the more difficult levels.
We know that the Witch Doctor class was designed that one (of many) well supported playstyle and intent was to be pet/summoner centric. That is all we really know at the moment.
The necro had more than just a summoner build in D2 that was successful and the necro was a favorite of even Blizz, and the Witch Doctor is their attempt of making a spiritual successor of the necro, I doubt they'll make pet/summoner builds the ONLY viable playstyle.

Quote from Razboss

Quote from Maerlimi

I wonder how
Exsanguinating Tier 7 Stearl 2.8-3.0X% of L8TI%arget's YTuLife JNper Hit
will work against a 76M boss.
2.2M health per hit? aight

the percentage is based off of your damage done, not the bosses max hp...


hmmm didnt notice the "of targets life" part...

Quote from Derwiv33

I'm confused really.
If it doesn't add it, then the other stats are getting nerfed and it isn't at all as strong as others here make it sound.

20% movement speed = Gargantuan moves 80% slower.
35% attack speed = Garguantuan hits 65% slower
200% damage = Gargantuan hits 2x harder

I really thought it adds these stats to him, like this (you know... he is restless, always on the move...)

+20% movement speed = Gargantuan moves 20% faster
+35% attack speed = Garguantuan hits 35% faster
+200% damage = Gargantuan hits 3x harder

I think the 15sec version would fit in a nuker build.


EDIT: Looking at Barbarian's skill Wrath of Berserker, the bullet pointing is similar, which is why I believe it means +20% speed, +35% atk speed and +200% damage for Gargantuan as well. I know for sure that Wrath of Berserker increases the stats for the barbarian.

Quote from jungle_woman

Quote from NDigi

I will be using the wrathful protector in group plays. I think gargauntan can go down pretty quick in a 4 man game inferno

disagree. already been confirmed by blue that pets scale well with regards to difficulty and number of players in game. In short, as mobs become harder to kill your pets also become harder to kill. will know for sure once game goes live but still... im inclined to believe blue posts at this point.

Quote from Antirepublican

Quote from jungle_woman

Wrathful Protector
Summon a more powerful Gargantuan that only lasts for 15 seconds. The Gargantuan's fists burn with fire, dealing 55% of your weapon damage as Fire and knocking enemies back.
Unlocks at Level 39

Restless Giant
When the Gargantuan encounters an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies, it enrages for 15 seconds gaining:
20% movement speed
35% attack speed
200% Physical damage

This effect cannot occur more than once every 120 seconds. Elite enemies include champions, rares, bosses, and other players.
Unlocks at Level 29

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can someone please explain to me the reason why wrathful protector would ever be chosen over restless giant? restless giant seems much better and is offered at a lower level and requires less micro management.

Just another case where some runes simply suck is all.

A rune that turns your awesome tank into a pathetic DPS cooldown? No thanks. Thats almost like a bad joke.
v/s
A rune that turns your awesome tank into an awesome DPS/Tank when you need him the boost in dmg the most. Amazing. The CD is an extra minute longer, but who cares? Chances are you won't run into another elite pack or boss within 2 minutes of one another.

Quote from Ruppgu

I got in the beta just after it was moved to later level.

Is it true that it also provides a movement speed buff while it's active? I've heard numerous people mention it before but the tooltip doesn't mention anything about a speed increase. If so, how much is the increase?

Also, could you cast physical realm (or spirit realm spells) while you were in the spirit world?

Quote from Antirepublican

Quote from wishedhehadbeta

tested spirit walk in the beta in the last patch. the dmg your phsyical body sustains does NOT transfer over to you in the spirit realm. so you come out with the same health you went into it(unruned)

That is cool, a lot better than I thought it would do.

Quote from Khrull777

Quote from 1up_Mush

You are not taking damage while in the spirit body. If your decoy suffers more then 50% of your max hp, you exit the spirit world. . This decoy will act as one of my "pets" most of the time.

I respectfully think you're wrong. Nowhere does it say your physical body is a decoy. What it does say is that your physical body gets left behind during your "journey" can take damage. Now, I have a tough time seeing your body getting pummeled to 50% health and magically healing. Spirit Walk is a take off from "Astral Projection", which every nerd knows leaves your physical body exposed during your travels.

For the sake of full disclosure, I am going to use spirit walk for my Blood Ritual Doctor, because with the Honored Guest rune, it will refill my mana by 30%. That's NICE! But for defense, it has a MAJOR downside.

@Kendro - Really good points. During Beta, I got stuck in several mobs after Siphoning their souls and when I tried escaping, I accidentally attacked. Spirit Walk would have helped.

Quote from Antirepublican

Healing Journey specifically says that "while spiritwalk" not while in the spirit realm.