I cannot really see an inferno build without Spirit walk. This is because it is the only ''get out of trouble'' ability that will work 100% of the time. CC abilities won't work on every mobs and not 100% of the time so they might be more usefull before inferno kicks in since resistances to CC should be lower. I suspect Spirit walk to work great with thorn damage as when you enter the spirit realm, your physical body would return damage (whislt you won't take any since you are in Spirit form).
ignoring your WD building being completely up for debate and can be a lot of different ways not just how you stated it.
if thats true that your physical form still returns dmg when you spirit walk that would be amazing and makes me think a thorn build is even more viable in inferno
Of course, it is all about speculation at this point. But i just find it really plausible for your physical body to return damage. I don't wan't to entrust my life in inferno on CC spells which might not just work well when i really need it. I prefer an escaping ability i could be able to spam (with Grave injustice) to take care of my survivability. If i can couple this great survivability while returning damage, it will definitely be awesome to play. I could escape endlessly while delivering damage thanks to thorns, pets and DOT.
It's SC, of course you can ^^
(at least I assume it's SC)
Absolutely, and if hardcore all you really need is spirit vessel, probably in place of Blood Ritual. And maybe MassConfusion back.
Inferno viable? I'm sure there's potential. Even all my first unenlightened noob builds in D2 were able to make it to Hell, just not able to beat Duriel most of the time.. actually, I think my first trap-sin got stuck at blood raven, but, still, made it to hell with my skill points spread over 7 or 8 skills with one maybe as high as 20 with the plus skills.
persistent summons are useful sure, but don't really think they are absolutely necessary especially with the amount of potential CC the Doctor has.
I agree. Especially, with Grave injustice. You can definitely be able to have a viable pet-less build after the cd's are lowered. And in solo, you go for the templar and you got some meat shield before you.
I love Grave injustice/Honored guest because it induces a time dimension. When SW as a high CD, you generate less mana from it (because you can't cast so often) so you compensate by using VQ.
When SW cooldown is lowered, you generate more mana from tthe ability so that you can swap VQ for another passive. (you can also swap your +''Gold pick radius'' affixes items for other type of item affixes)
Honestly, I keep looking at the skills but I just don't get how they fit together. Is it just me or is there way too little information available for this class?
Wizard, Barb, DH and Monk all have somewhat obvious playstyles and working builds. There may be a quirk here and there to work out but overall they're easy to get.
WD on the other hand I just don't get how were supposed to play? How do you migrate damage? With pets? Do the big frogs tank for you? Do the small spiders tank?
The dogs? The dogs didn't make very good tanks Normal, I'm having big trouble seeing them tank very well in inferno. And also the cooldown doesn't start before all dogs are dead, so if one dog dies and youre left with two of them. You will have to kill the two before you can resummon the dead one, and even if you kill them off cooldown doesn't start till theyre dead so 60 second downtime.
Guargantuan? May work allright, I honestly don't know when I havent tried it.
Confusion? Fetish Army? Horrify? Don't last very long and the cooldown takes forever.
I just don't feel there is enough information available about this class to understand how it's actually going to perform in end-game combat. All the other classes you pretty much know everything you need to about them but this class is just a total mystery to me.
I don't really see whats so hard to get about the WD. The basic idea is this:
1 direct damage ability and 1 DOT ability
Then, you incorporate most of the time at least 1 CC.
Grasp of the dead, Zombie dogs, Gargantua, Horrify, Hex, Confusion or Giant toad.
Afterwards, if you don't have much CC, you will definetly need an escaping skill: Spirit walk
I cannot really see an inferno build without Spirit walk. This is because it is the only ''get out of trouble'' ability that will work 100% of the time. CC abilities won't work on every mobs and not 100% of the time so they might be more usefull before inferno kicks in since resistances to CC should be lower. I suspect Spirit walk to work great with thorn damage as when you enter the spirit realm, your physical body would return damage (whislt you won't take any since you are in Spirit form).
Finally, you pick utility spells to fill in the blanks.
the ONLY pets that are attackable by mobs are the garg and dogs, the rest are not attackable and therefor dont tank for you. there is some evidence that when casting tons of spiders that they kind of effect enemy pathing but thats it, the mobs completely ignore them.
pretty sure fetish army can be attacked however there is evidence that Hex and BBV shamans cannot be attacked.
thats the only thing we dont know for sure. since its a 2 min CD skill i dont think they can, because how shitty would that be to use it and have them instantly die? im 99.9% positive they cant be attacked either.
About wall of zombies runed for creepers? My bet would be that they tank for you since they have a crap damage output but would only last for 5 seconds.
Lol nice insult there. Let me put it in a way where I don't try to talk about lore or general diablo gameplay since I don't give a shit about lore.
There are so many fucking ways that you can add pet controle one of them is the classic shift (or ctrl) + clicking which is basicly the same concept just gives you more controle. If you want some controle there is no logical reason you shouldn't have full controle. The point I was trying to make though is that pet controle is never something that was part of diablo gameplay and just because there aren't 20+ minions in this game it doesn't mean you should have full controle.
And sry I said worst way I meant it's a rediculessly flawed and look like you just don't thought it through before comming up with what is just a quick fix that doesn't fix anything. So if you want to suggest something like this and actually argue for it atleast think it through
Dude... You tell me that my idea is terrible and that it is the worst way to fix it. Then you say that it could be done with shift+clicking.
Now, for the benefit of everyone, please explain how i am suppose to control my pets using shift+clicking.
Now that you look even newber than before, for your own sake, please don't write something if you don't have a fucking clue.
Now, i really like to debate with people and with due respect. But i got my limits and you definitely went beyond. You have no common sense and you give me headhaches.
This will probably be the foundation for my main solo PVE builds.
I am positive that there is a chance that when you enter the spirit realm, your 50% dummy returns thorn damage. In that case, i wan't to use grave injustice to be able to gain mobility and use the dummy as much as i can to deal thorn damage.
Creepers could be nice rune for zombie wall if the zombies which you raise can also tank and deal thorn also.
I just hope that if some skills/runes are under used, Blizzard will adjust accordingly. Without playing it already feels like there is gonna be some further balance needed.
Dont get me wrong, I understand that the WD is not supposed to be a pure summon class, but 25% wep dmg for Gargantuan, 20% Wep Dmg for the fetish army, of which you only get 5, and 9% Wep Dmg for the Z-Dogs.
Seems to me like the pets are nothing but glorified tanks. Was excited before to play WD but not so much now, does anyone else feel the same way?
You didn't evaluate damage you can dish out with thorn passive for sure, else you would say that pet's seem unbalanced. If you play long enough and can farm a uber gear set...
I'm playin around with a build focused on being up in groups of enemies faces to use toads and cloud of bats at max effectiveness. I don't have any pets and Bad Medicine seems like an obvious choice even if it is just me thats taking 20% less dmg. That IS from all sources, if i'm stacking health and armor it could really maximize the effect.
Using toads and firebats is not being effective since both abilities are instant damage. If you wan't to be effective, you should use a DOT and an instant damage ability.
Bad Medicine not for solo? Hmm... I was thinking of just the garg as my summon, big stinker rune + bad medicine. Then a bunch of nukes(both poison and physical ones). Well, I could always change up if it doesn't work.
I mean, unless you have jungle fortitude already, you will never want bad medecine unless you really care about your pets that much and you must keep it going all the time. If you already have jungle fortitude, i think that it would be best to choose another passive than bad medecine because the multiplicative effect decreases the bonus from 20% to 16%. If you still think that this 16% is worth the passive than go for it but i would much rather invest in something else.
With vision quest I wonder if you really need a cheap primary spell. Perhaps the toad of hugeness for a extra cd but besides that I think you got enough mana to use for whatever you want.
Also if you are running vision quest you are basically forced to use the zombies on cd to keep it up for maximum regen -> damage. This might mean that your forced to throw pets spell even though you already have them up, might be completely viable on inferno though.
The extra mana from gruesome feast might be wasted if you are running with 300% extra mana regen. Although the extra int might be useful. If gruesome feast seems lackluster ingame you could change it for bad medicine or pierce the veil.
Bad medecine is not for solo builds. Also, since it is multiplicative with jungle fortitude, the bonus is not as great (16%).
I would not recommand pierce the veil with bats unless you wan't to invest in mana regen gear and give up on other better affixes. You would need over 52 mana regen to make it sustainable if you wield a 1 APS weapon. If you wan't to wield a 1.4 APS dagger, you will need above 70 mana regen to make it sustainable. I find the best ability to be used with pierce the veil is toads, especially bull ones.
I would rather use thorn instead of gruesome. If you think about it, with all this bunch of pets each returning damage, if you heavily invest into thorn affixes, you will get a big DPS increase. I think that the gruesome feast passive will be good in normal, nightmare and maybe hell levels, but remember that globes will drop less frequently as you go on trough level difficulty.
I think that splinters and firebats are 2 instant abilities so i would definetly switch splinters for something else. Since you don't have CC, i would suggest you incorporate 1 into your build.
Spread sheet as been calculated with an ideal casting sequence doing 1 action every second. I made it optimal so that every 8 second, i would cast locust, that every 15 seconds i would use spirit walk and so on. A lot of the mana regeneration comes from the fact that it exploits honored guest as one of it's main incoming source.
I could show you the graphics i have output from the spread sheet itself. It really shows out how mana management goes with a sustained 1 action per second build. If the graph shows that the build goes into negative values, you adjust mana regeneration and max mana to reach equilibrium. Now, it will all depends how it really plays out in real gaming. Will i do 1 action per second? Will i cast locust every 8 secs or so? Likely not.
Mana management is the first thing that one needs to start with when planning builds. Once you get the right mana consuption/regeneration balance, you know exactly how much you need to invest on magic affixes. This is a good thing because then you know that the rest can be invested towards thorns, intelligence, vitality and life regeneration. This is why i thought it would be a good thing to make spread sheets.
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Of course, it is all about speculation at this point. But i just find it really plausible for your physical body to return damage. I don't wan't to entrust my life in inferno on CC spells which might not just work well when i really need it. I prefer an escaping ability i could be able to spam (with Grave injustice) to take care of my survivability. If i can couple this great survivability while returning damage, it will definitely be awesome to play. I could escape endlessly while delivering damage thanks to thorns, pets and DOT.
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I agree. Especially, with Grave injustice. You can definitely be able to have a viable pet-less build after the cd's are lowered. And in solo, you go for the templar and you got some meat shield before you.
I love Grave injustice/Honored guest because it induces a time dimension. When SW as a high CD, you generate less mana from it (because you can't cast so often) so you compensate by using VQ.
SW on 15 sec CD
When SW cooldown is lowered, you generate more mana from tthe ability so that you can swap VQ for another passive. (you can also swap your +''Gold pick radius'' affixes items for other type of item affixes)
SW on a 3 sec CD
This kind of playstyle (evolutive) suits me perfectly and this is mostly why i will be rolling a WD first.
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I don't really see whats so hard to get about the WD. The basic idea is this:
1 direct damage ability and 1 DOT ability
Then, you incorporate most of the time at least 1 CC.
Grasp of the dead, Zombie dogs, Gargantua, Horrify, Hex, Confusion or Giant toad.
Afterwards, if you don't have much CC, you will definetly need an escaping skill: Spirit walk
I cannot really see an inferno build without Spirit walk. This is because it is the only ''get out of trouble'' ability that will work 100% of the time. CC abilities won't work on every mobs and not 100% of the time so they might be more usefull before inferno kicks in since resistances to CC should be lower. I suspect Spirit walk to work great with thorn damage as when you enter the spirit realm, your physical body would return damage (whislt you won't take any since you are in Spirit form).
Finally, you pick utility spells to fill in the blanks.
0
About wall of zombies runed for creepers? My bet would be that they tank for you since they have a crap damage output but would only last for 5 seconds.
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Dude... You tell me that my idea is terrible and that it is the worst way to fix it. Then you say that it could be done with shift+clicking.
Now, for the benefit of everyone, please explain how i am suppose to control my pets using shift+clicking.
Now that you look even newber than before, for your own sake, please don't write something if you don't have a fucking clue.
Now, i really like to debate with people and with due respect. But i got my limits and you definitely went beyond. You have no common sense and you give me headhaches.
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Because bats can make oral sex and male have a spiral phallus.
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This will probably be the foundation for my main solo PVE builds.
I am positive that there is a chance that when you enter the spirit realm, your 50% dummy returns thorn damage. In that case, i wan't to use grave injustice to be able to gain mobility and use the dummy as much as i can to deal thorn damage.
Creepers could be nice rune for zombie wall if the zombies which you raise can also tank and deal thorn also.
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You didn't evaluate damage you can dish out with thorn passive for sure, else you would say that pet's seem unbalanced. If you play long enough and can farm a uber gear set...
Max thorn value
Amulet: 2544
Belt: 2544
Chest: 2544
Shield: 2544
Shoulders: 2544
Weapon: 2544
Armor: 1454
Offhand: 1454
Ring: 1454
Total max value: 18326
So, you and every pet you have would return 18326 damage when hit before reduction. I doubt anything can be as powerful as this.
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If you read previous posts you will notice that i said that bad medecine is not a solo ability.
Using toads and firebats is not being effective since both abilities are instant damage. If you wan't to be effective, you should use a DOT and an instant damage ability.
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I mean, unless you have jungle fortitude already, you will never want bad medecine unless you really care about your pets that much and you must keep it going all the time. If you already have jungle fortitude, i think that it would be best to choose another passive than bad medecine because the multiplicative effect decreases the bonus from 20% to 16%. If you still think that this 16% is worth the passive than go for it but i would much rather invest in something else.
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Bad medecine is not for solo builds. Also, since it is multiplicative with jungle fortitude, the bonus is not as great (16%).
I would not recommand pierce the veil with bats unless you wan't to invest in mana regen gear and give up on other better affixes. You would need over 52 mana regen to make it sustainable if you wield a 1 APS weapon. If you wan't to wield a 1.4 APS dagger, you will need above 70 mana regen to make it sustainable. I find the best ability to be used with pierce the veil is toads, especially bull ones.
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I would rather use thorn instead of gruesome. If you think about it, with all this bunch of pets each returning damage, if you heavily invest into thorn affixes, you will get a big DPS increase. I think that the gruesome feast passive will be good in normal, nightmare and maybe hell levels, but remember that globes will drop less frequently as you go on trough level difficulty.
I think that splinters and firebats are 2 instant abilities so i would definetly switch splinters for something else. Since you don't have CC, i would suggest you incorporate 1 into your build.
0
I could show you the graphics i have output from the spread sheet itself. It really shows out how mana management goes with a sustained 1 action per second build. If the graph shows that the build goes into negative values, you adjust mana regeneration and max mana to reach equilibrium. Now, it will all depends how it really plays out in real gaming. Will i do 1 action per second? Will i cast locust every 8 secs or so? Likely not.
Mana management is the first thing that one needs to start with when planning builds. Once you get the right mana consuption/regeneration balance, you know exactly how much you need to invest on magic affixes. This is a good thing because then you know that the rest can be invested towards thorns, intelligence, vitality and life regeneration. This is why i thought it would be a good thing to make spread sheets.