Seems to me as a solid self-healing tank build. Earthquake is down to 60 sec CD with runestone and passive. This CD is almost the same as Ignore pain (60sec.). This allows you to use Ignore pain (Alabaster) and then throw in Earthquake to heal 25% the damage done. Using skills together (every 60secs.) seems to give you a good healing boost considering the high damage output produced by Earthquake. There doesn't seem to be any fury issues.
To maximize fury generation as barb, you need 4 skills. Hammer of the ancients, overpower, battle rage and wrath of the berserker and if possible, revenge with alabaster. I'm not saying you should go this but it is what MadViking was refering to with maximizing fury generation for WotB.
I have to agree with MadViking. In theory, if I had to choose between battle rage for the whole team or wrath of the berserker. I would go with battle rage since it will be active all the time rather than just 15 seconds of the battle. Will I do that during release? No. : )
I just proved to you guys that maintaining fury with this build did'nt seemed to be a problem given i take "Weapons master" and wield mighty weapons to go for a 2 fury per attack bonus. My total fury regen per sec would be around 15 which can hopefully give WotB more than a 15 sec boost. In fact, if i can maintain 10 fury per attack, this would mean that i could keep Wotb on for like 30-45 secs which would not be totally bad. We are not talking about 15 secs anymore.
Madviking, I'm quite sure he meant for team death match and not inferno. : )
Ah, OK. Then forget what I said
Btw if you want maximum fury generation as a barb (for example to keep your WotB up), you want a high crit % and Battle Rage golden. Nothing will beat that for fury generation.
This is not the type of answer which can satisfies me. Show me a build and make the calculations. From my point of view, i don't see how i can replace any skills with battle rage apart from WotB. Then, increasing so much fury would not make any sense and i would rather choose another weapon type from "Weapons master".
That barb build brings nothing to his team. You have neither War Cry nor Threatening Shout, and for a team build I think War Cry is more or less a must. You don't have Battle Rage either, which I think would be far more usefull than WotB for this build. Why not get +100% damage all the time, instead of +45% damage (and IAS/dodge etc) for only 12% of the time? I'm also not sure how much use you will have of Marathon, since it's a huge fury sink which could better be used to deal damage. But it's an interesting idea.
Switching out Marathon for War Cry gives you the following: +100% armor and +50% life (with a maxed out alabaster rune) with massive life regeneration, all of which is also given to your team mates (including WD summons). Plus it gives you 30 fury instead of costing you 20, meaning more hammers. This seems a lot more usefull than being able to run around fast.
I can't realy comment on the WD since I haven't read up on his skills, but for the monk I'm thinking that a build for inferno it might be better with a more defensive mantra (Evasion or Healing).
The whole point of this warrior build is not to be supportive at all, it is to maximize damage output. By maximizing damage output, I maximize also bloothirsty ability which will heal furthermore. Sprints purpose is to be able to launch every possible attacks. There is no point being strong and have fast attacks if you can only launch half of them.
About Wotb and Battle rage, i was a bit horn appart between the 2.
- WotB (12% of the time):
45% attack speed
10% critical bonus
20% dodge
20% movement
Runestone choices: Crimson or Golden
-Battle rage (100% of the time):
45% attack damage
4% critical bonus
Runestone choices: Crimson
"Battle rage" seems to be a better choice long term because you have it barely always on. On the other hand, there is another way to configure "WotB" so that it seems to solve the 2 main problems; the duration and rage cost. Do you think it is feasable to use golden runestone with WotB to generate enough rage to remedy for both problems?
Here is my idea: Go golden instead of crimson for WotB. Now, with every 12 rage generated while under the effect of "WotB", you gain 1sec to WotB. The best way to generate fury imo is to use frenzy while dual-wielding mighty weapons with weapons master. Dual-wielding mighty weapons give a 1 fury per hit (2 fury every attack with dual-wield). With 1h weapons, you can go up to 1.5 attack/sec and with a 120% bonus to attack speed (from frenzy fully stacked and WotB), this means approximately 3 attack/sec.
Calculating:
Fury from Weapons master: 6 fury/sec
Fury from Ancient spear: 2.9 fury/sec
Fury from Frenzy: 9 fury/sec
Total fury: 18fury/sec (of course this is theorycraft and stuns comming in will lower this a bit)
It seems like you could go on an eternal rampage given those numbers if you can keep launching all attacks. To launch all attacks, you must keep pace with your ennemy and this is the whole purpose of sprint boosted to 80% increased movement speed. This being said, i can't say if you agree with the idea but i think i could try to play it like this:
Battling order
1. Use Ancient spear (29 fury generated and ennemy is slowed for x secs)
2. Use Frenzy (fully stack frenzy bonus)
- When you can't keep up anymore, use sprint
- Use "Overpower" whenever possible
3. Keep boosting fury up to full power (should take between 5-10sec depending)
4. Use "Wrath of the Berserker"
- Use "Overpower" followed by "Hammer of the ancients" whenever possible
If there are configurable macros like in Wow, after reaching 100 fury again, you could use a weapon swaping macro to alternate between fury generation (dual-wield, mighty weapons) and damage output (2H, Other weapon type).
Wd and monk builds aready have what is needed as supportive means, (maximum attack damage increase, crowd control and supportive healing). This is why i did not wanna take War cry in. Sprint seems for me as something which would eventually pay out because you will basically be able to catch up anytime on the ennemy. It complements WotB well because there is no point having good stats if you cannot deal all attacks because your opponent is constantly running away and kitting you all the time you are under Wotb. On the other hand, is was thorned between taking Battle rage ot Wotb since it seems to be a fury issue.
Well, what I meant is that the 40% loot rune by itself is meaningless without context. Percentage to drop loot doesn't matter in the long run, only drops per minute do (will some other skill kill mobs more than 40% faster than hammer of the ancients? Probably.). And because Hammer of the Ancients is a single target, probably rather slow hitting (from the videos it was shown in, it has a rather long cast animation), high damage skill, I'm not yet sure whether it's a good farming skill (bosses, maybe?).
Once again, it's too early to say for sure. It's also too early to say whether Hammer of the Ancients attack speed will be affected by Frenzy.
A very potential problem arises from how Frenzy will function (whether it works best with quick weapons) while as I could see Hammer of the Ancients benefit most from high-damage, slower weapons (of course, this is 100% speculation before we play the game).
Hammer and Frenzy are both in beta, so we actually do know quite a bit about how they work.
Hammer casts very quickly, it's not slow at all. It's based on weapon speed. If I had to guess, I'd say it's basically equal to a swing, but I don't have any testing data to back that up.
Frenzy's increased attack speed only affects Frenzy, it does not affect any other skill.
So the basic tradeoff between fast and slow weapons is more attacks that do less damage vs. fewer attacks doing more damage. A Hammer with fast weapons does less damage, but you'll also generate fury faster and thus will cast more Hammers than you would with a slow weapon.
Hammer is also not single target. It's small area AOE. For monsters that cluster tightly (zombies), it can hit quite a few. For larger monsters (Unburied), it's a one hit deal.
I have tried a Frenzy build with a two-hander and I didn't like how it felt. The Frenzy buff duration is very short, so you have to start it up again on every mob group. It takes too long to swing a two-hander before you start getting the benefit of the attack speed. Not that it's not viable, I just prefer DW for Frenzy much more.
You pointed out something of great interest revealing the 2-hand weapon vs dualwield dilema. In Wow, you could make macros which let you automize certain things like swaping weapons (2hvsDW). Using this swaping device, some things may become feasable. For exemple, with "Weapons master", you can dualwield mighty weapons first to generate fury using frenzy (incredible 10 fury per attack total). When Overpower kicks in, you can trade off the dual-wielded mighty weapons for a 2h weapon with a different bonus from "Weapons master" like the 5%crit. Then you and start using fury spenders.
In Wow, those macro where easy to create. Will this be something we will be able to tool with in D3?
1_up Mush
I just love how you say "it will totally fail" and add "more fails". You seem to have played it already. Why bother being on the forum if you are just here to show off your absolute build that has no flaws which seem to the most boring build I´ve seen for a barbarian.
You will use your ancient spear to drag him to you and then you will start kiting him with throw weapon throw? Yes, the untouchable vs a target dummy.
My build does'nt rely solely on Weapon throw, but it's maxed out so that it becomes a powerfull kiting tool coupled with mobility. I kite, bring hp down and when it's low enough, i end it out on close combat. I rely upon boosted stats on normal attacks, maxed mobility and slow effects so that there is no means of escaping if you are caught down on hp. As fury generator, i got unforgiving which can help me keep rage going up so i got no need for active fury generators. When i am below 20% (27% because it is 20% of 135%), i can spam throw an deploy all my arsenal for free and with 50% damage reduction, it seems better than you're ignore pain ability imo. I just have to kite you until i got enough Fury and then hit. The whole point of this build is not to go all-in at first sight, it is to lower Hp and wait for proper moment to engage in hand to hand combat. When i am ready to engage in close range, i got high survivability and insane attack boost stacking up with each other. My normal damage will deal more than you're rage consuming abilities when i use them in conjonction and you won't be able to escape shit because i will sprint up your ass (105% Attack improvement, 100% movement speed, 45% attack speed, 10% critical hit). I could just kite you to death with you're pittyfull build without even having to engage you once.
It does solely rely on weapon throw since that is where your damage is and you can´t kite someone forever since you have to use ancient spear. Why would you ever want to go close combat to finish it when you only have weapon throw?
There is one change I would make to your build that would change it completely for me, which is to remove battle rage and then add call of the ancients with a golden rune. I doubt many would be able to counter Talic, Korlic and Madawc going ballistic on you while being in sayian mode. Either way, call of the ancients > battle rage.
Since you compared your and lord_scales build in a duel scenario. I would just counter your build even more by using ground stomp instead of sprint with golden or alabaster depending on the slow percentage but for fun, lets just see what would happen.
[ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WRgeQP!Vfc!ZbabbZ ]
If I go by what you said in your first post, you will be kiting until you have your stuff up but I'll have more fury either way since you will have to use your first 20 fury for battle rage. Whatever you do afterwards, doesn't matter. You already lost since you had to use your first fury on a buff and to maintain it, that is 40 fury every minute. With your awful fury generation, that is really bad. The moment you use ancient spear, you will lose. I'll counter it with ground stomp, say hello to ancients into an ancient spear.
Lord_Scales
Feedback? I would not go with bash since it has a chance to knock back your target which is counterproductive, wouldnt you agree?
Frenzy with obsidian is what I am going to try, otherwise crimson. For ancient spear, I think the increase fury gain would be better but I don´t know how much the heal will be of your total health so we will have to wait and see for that.
Leap attack vs Sprint, I'm a bit torn about that one still. I'll going to play around with both, change depending on the class you face.
- Firehaert
You see, i went with the passive skill unforgiving. It will generate rage over time so that i don't need to use Ancient spear to generate the fury i need to kite you. I only need to stack up some fury by keeping myself away from you until i got enough. Then, i can kite you with "War cry"/"Weapon throw"/"Battle rage"/"Sprint" while you try to catch up to me to generate some fury. What will you do? Try to run after me like a kitty. If you ever manage to ancient spear me, i will be slowed for 3 secs, loose few HP because you got shit unless you use your 75 fury skills. And for god sake, don't think that those retarded ancients will do a lot if they have the same retarded AI as i saw in D2 while my bear was always stuck the head in some corner. When you're on CD with ancients, you are weaker than me hands down no question even if you stun me for 3 secs. If you slow me, i will still be faster than you with sprint so good luck catching up to me. Maybe call of the "Ancients">"Battle rage" versus a retard who stands there like a scarecrow but i will almost always have battle rage on wilst you will have you're 3 retarded companions only half of the time.
It is funny, I don't think you realize how little fury unforgiving gives. It is 30 fury per minute and with war cry, you get another 60 fury per minute. Weapon throw needs 20 fury, battle rage 20 fury every 30 seconds, sprint 20 fury. I heal 60% of my health over a minute plus another 3-400 per second. Do the math.
I assume the ancients use the same AI as the new followers or like any pet you can summon. Why on earth would they use a decade old AI? Makes no sense nor do you. Either way, as I said before, you believe that your build is absolute then so be it.
- Firehaert
You might be right on certain points. This build was aimed at fully exploit Wrath of the berserker by taking sprint (80% movement speed) so that the opponent could not dodge it very well. Maybe investing towards kiting might not work out as well as i plan because all of this is theorycraft. We don't know about diminishing returns, dual-wield vs 2h-weapon, global cooldowns, shared CD, macros. Wrath of the berserker and Call of the ancient might share a cooldown for example. Going sprint with Wrath of the berserker to exploit it so that you can launch the full potential of it?
1_up Mush
I just love how you say "it will totally fail" and add "more fails". You seem to have played it already. Why bother being on the forum if you are just here to show off your absolute build that has no flaws which seem to the most boring build I´ve seen for a barbarian.
You will use your ancient spear to drag him to you and then you will start kiting him with throw weapon throw? Yes, the untouchable vs a target dummy.
My build does'nt rely solely on Weapon throw, but it's maxed out so that it becomes a powerfull kiting tool coupled with mobility. I kite, bring hp down and when it's low enough, i end it out on close combat. I rely upon boosted stats on normal attacks, maxed mobility and slow effects so that there is no means of escaping if you are caught down on hp. As fury generator, i got unforgiving which can help me keep rage going up so i got no need for active fury generators. When i am below 20% (27% because it is 20% of 135%), i can spam throw an deploy all my arsenal for free and with 50% damage reduction, it seems better than you're ignore pain ability imo. I just have to kite you until i got enough Fury and then hit. The whole point of this build is not to go all-in at first sight, it is to lower Hp and wait for proper moment to engage in hand to hand combat. When i am ready to engage in close range, i got high survivability and insane attack boost stacking up with each other. My normal damage will deal more than you're rage consuming abilities when i use them in conjonction and you won't be able to escape shit because i will sprint up your ass (105% Attack improvement, 100% movement speed, 45% attack speed, 10% critical hit). I could just kite you to death with you're pittyfull build without even having to engage you once.
It does solely rely on weapon throw since that is where your damage is and you can´t kite someone forever since you have to use ancient spear. Why would you ever want to go close combat to finish it when you only have weapon throw?
There is one change I would make to your build that would change it completely for me, which is to remove battle rage and then add call of the ancients with a golden rune. I doubt many would be able to counter Talic, Korlic and Madawc going ballistic on you while being in sayian mode. Either way, call of the ancients > battle rage.
Since you compared your and lord_scales build in a duel scenario. I would just counter your build even more by using ground stomp instead of sprint with golden or alabaster depending on the slow percentage but for fun, lets just see what would happen.
[ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WRgeQP!Vfc!ZbabbZ ]
If I go by what you said in your first post, you will be kiting until you have your stuff up but I'll have more fury either way since you will have to use your first 20 fury for battle rage. Whatever you do afterwards, doesn't matter. You already lost since you had to use your first fury on a buff and to maintain it, that is 40 fury every minute. With your awful fury generation, that is really bad. The moment you use ancient spear, you will lose. I'll counter it with ground stomp, say hello to ancients into an ancient spear.
Lord_Scales
Feedback? I would not go with bash since it has a chance to knock back your target which is counterproductive, wouldnt you agree?
Frenzy with obsidian is what I am going to try, otherwise crimson. For ancient spear, I think the increase fury gain would be better but I don´t know how much the heal will be of your total health so we will have to wait and see for that.
Leap attack vs Sprint, I'm a bit torn about that one still. I'll going to play around with both, change depending on the class you face.
- Firehaert
You see, i went with the passive skill unforgiving. It will generate rage over time so that i don't need to use Ancient spear to generate the fury i need to kite you. I only need to stack up some fury by keeping myself away from you until i got enough. Then, i can kite you with "War cry"/"Weapon throw"/"Battle rage"/"Sprint" while you try to catch up to me to generate some fury. What will you do? Try to run after me like a kitty. If you ever manage to ancient spear me, i will be slowed for 3 secs, loose few HP because you got shit unless you use your 75 fury skills. And for god sake, don't think that those retarded ancients will do a lot if they have the same retarded AI as i saw in D2 while my bear was always stuck the head in some corner. When you're on CD with ancients, you are weaker than me hands down no question even if you stun me for 3 secs. If you slow me, i will still be faster than you with sprint so good luck catching up to me. Maybe call of the "Ancients">"Battle rage" versus a retard who stands there like a scarecrow but i will almost always have battle rage on wilst you will have you're 3 retarded companions only half of the time.
I think that this skill is best used for tanking in PVE. As soon as someone will see you use this spell, they will just try go get away and wait until it expires. [/quote]
Ignore pain is useful to counter heavy cooldowns. It is like using shield wall as warrior to counter an ability or when you just need those extra seconds to survive.
[/quote]
I can just push the srint button and run away... no need for Ignore pain...
Marathon with Wrath of the berserker(100% increased movement speed) will be a pain for you to escape and i will exploit it to it's full extend since i will be able to launch full APS during 15 secs unless i get stunned. If you have a slow effect coupled with that, i will be moving like 4 times faster than you will. You're tree newb barbarians friends will have a fun time running behind me and launch 0 damage during 15secs.
I did not meant to be harsh and frankly, no one knows how Diablo will function until it comes out of the box. The thing is, based on my experience, there will most likely be diminishing returns. When i was playing WoW with my warrior some time ago, i stumbled upon a build (Unrelenting assault/ Revenge). This build was about constant spamming revenge which would in return perma stun single target. It was highly accurate on big creeps but since bosses were most of the time (not to say always) immune to stun, and that in pvp, diminishing return was present, this build would not make the cut. If the don't incorporate diminishing return, then your build will probably be great but just my two cents it will and you're build will prove efficient when tanking lots of common mobs since DR does not apply but will epic fail in pvp or vs bosses.
The way a warrior was designed in WoW was to bleed your opponent by inflicting Dot, wait until he bleeded enough and then rely upon critical hits and slows to kill him. If Blizzard keeps the same path, i will probably be the best way to play the barbarian as PVP.
Two things that is to consider is global cooldown and 2hand vs dual-wield and this will be affecting much the way a barbarian can be played. Those two mechanics will have a huge impact on the viability of builds.
My opinion about your build:
You're build would be definetly good in PVE since you will be able to stun a lot and tank damage. For a PVP build, i would recommand you not to focus too heavily on stuns, be sure that you have good mobility and rely upon critical strikes to land you're damage whilst being able to kite a bit yourself and get out of trouble if needed.
Healing...
I think that the best mitigating/replenishing skill might be comming from War cry with Alabaster. You can regenerate away from your target, something that can't be done if you rely upon Ancient spear with obsidian. This means that if you are in big trouble, you're only option for healing will be to engage in fight which if you are too low on Hp, won't be a good idea.
Bash...
Bash with obsidian seems ok to me for PVP. One big question: will dual-wield provide more chances to stun since you launch more attacks? If so, you should consider this skill to be best suited for dual-wield. The problem i see with going for 2x 1-handed swords is that weapon damage based ability would provide lower bonuses (unless i am not aware of all the mechanics). If this skill is best suited for dual-wield, it won't be good to use it with Hammer of the ancients and Weapon throw since those skills will be best used with 2h weapons considering throwing a 2h-weapon will hurt more than a 1h (unless you have a macro where you could switch from 2h to dual-wield and vice-versa like there was in WoW but this would still not be optimal and micro-consuming).
Leap attack, Ancient spear or both?...
Can't tell right now if Leap will be better than Ancient spear for PVP (you can escape with Leap which you cannot with AS and maybe dodge some incomming attacks with it which might be better for PVP). Ancient spear on the other hand, gives better damage and has slow effect. The runestones worth for PVP are golden and alabaster for Leap imo whilst obsidian and golden for AS seem best suited. Taking both skills? Maybe, we will have to wait to see the efficiency of both abilities.
Hammer of the ancient...
A classic for PVP imo. Crimson seems to get the best out of it. This spell suits Overpower very well.
Weapon throw...
Defenitly go for crimson runestone especially if you intend to use "No escape" as a passive ability.
Ignore pain...
I think that this skill is best used for tanking in PVE. As soon as someone will see you use this spell, they will just try go get away and wait until it expires.
Why kite, when you can drag them to you? My build is viable for ranged combat! Involves keeping damage taken to a minimum whilst attempting to close the gap with stun locks and spear... I don't know how stun locks will work in Diablo 3, whether there is diminishing returns or if stuns are shortened against players, but I'm gonna have alot of fun experimenting with this kind of build!
Also, the build you linked doesn't have the passive skills you mention! I see what your trying to get at, but I don't think relying solely on weapon throw is going to work, especially when one step in your combat tactics is to be reduced to 20% life... At that point, you'll probably be targeted and bombed down!
Another point is you lack a fury generator without a cool down; spear is 10s, and warcry is 30s!
There was a mistake in the build, trade ruthless for unforgiving.
You're build will totaly fail in PVP. Don't expect stun locks with Pvp, this is not bound to happen. Diminishing return will surely apply. Further more, you rely upon luck for your stuns which is a totally bad idea imo. You can't just drag him to you and hit every button until it's him or you especially if you are counting upon x%chance runes. I don't believe that this kind of playstyle cuts it in arena or battleground. Plus, you got poor synergy between your skills.
More fails:
- Ignore pain is a Tank ability which is purpose is most likely for PVE. You trigger this and i can just run away for 10secs.
- Juggernaut would not regenerate any hit points versus a build like mine and the 20% mitigation for imparing effects would not matter much. With Srpint upg to marathon, you would have poor escaping chances if you are down on hp.
- In pure meel combat, you would fail completely versus a build like mine improving stats much.
- Superstition won't help you much versus another Warrior or a Monk, it's just a bad passive skill
- Relying so much on stuns would end up be a fail versus any warrior going Juggernault as an example
My build does'nt rely solely on Weapon throw, but it's maxed out so that it becomes a powerfull kiting tool coupled with mobility. I kite, bring hp down and when it's low enough, i end it out on close combat. I rely upon boosted stats on normal attacks, maxed mobility and slow effects so that there is no means of escaping if you are caught down on hp. As fury generator, i got unforgiving which can help me keep rage going up so i got no need for active fury generators. When i am below 20% (27% because it is 20% of 135%), i can spam throw an deploy all my arsenal for free and with 50% damage reduction, it seems better than you're ignore pain ability imo. I just have to kite you until i got enough Fury and then hit. The whole point of this build is not to go all-in at first sight, it is to lower Hp and wait for proper moment to engage in hand to hand combat. When i am ready to engage in close range, i got high survivability and insane attack boost stacking up with each other. My normal damage will deal more than you're rage consuming abilities when i use them in conjonction and you won't be able to escape shit because i will sprint up your ass (105% Attack improvement, 100% movement speed, 45% attack speed, 10% critical hit). I could just kite you to death with you're pittyfull build without even having to engage you once.
Bottom line: Unless there is no such thing as diminishing returns in this game, you're build is just some ordinary build which will never make the cut in the long run.
Wanted to hear what you guys think of such a build for PVP circumstances. The build as i named it, focuses on having high movement and attack speed. It seems overwell balanced so it could be viable versus many classes, especially kiting classes (WD,DH,Wz). The point of having mobility is to be able to capitalize over APS and kite more efficiently. Everyone agrees that there is no point going into frenzy if you can't catch up and launch full APS. I explain:
1. First of all, kite and remove precious Hp from your opponent:
2. When you kited enough and got at least 20 Fury:
Boost Attack---> [Active skill: "Battle Rage" (Crimson)]
Get more Fury---> [Active skill: "Ancient spear" (Golden)]
* Now you got at least 30 Fury
Spam ---> [Active skill: "Weapon Throw" (Crimson)]
3. Now you are below 20% hp, it is time to go into rampage. You should last at least 15 sec:
0
Seems to me as a solid self-healing tank build. Earthquake is down to 60 sec CD with runestone and passive. This CD is almost the same as Ignore pain (60sec.). This allows you to use Ignore pain (Alabaster) and then throw in Earthquake to heal 25% the damage done. Using skills together (every 60secs.) seems to give you a good healing boost considering the high damage output produced by Earthquake. There doesn't seem to be any fury issues.
0
I just proved to you guys that maintaining fury with this build did'nt seemed to be a problem given i take "Weapons master" and wield mighty weapons to go for a 2 fury per attack bonus. My total fury regen per sec would be around 15 which can hopefully give WotB more than a 15 sec boost. In fact, if i can maintain 10 fury per attack, this would mean that i could keep Wotb on for like 30-45 secs which would not be totally bad. We are not talking about 15 secs anymore.
0
This is not the type of answer which can satisfies me. Show me a build and make the calculations. From my point of view, i don't see how i can replace any skills with battle rage apart from WotB. Then, increasing so much fury would not make any sense and i would rather choose another weapon type from "Weapons master".
0
The whole point of this warrior build is not to be supportive at all, it is to maximize damage output. By maximizing damage output, I maximize also bloothirsty ability which will heal furthermore. Sprints purpose is to be able to launch every possible attacks. There is no point being strong and have fast attacks if you can only launch half of them.
About Wotb and Battle rage, i was a bit horn appart between the 2.
- WotB (12% of the time):
45% attack speed
10% critical bonus
20% dodge
20% movement
Runestone choices: Crimson or Golden
-Battle rage (100% of the time):
45% attack damage
4% critical bonus
Runestone choices: Crimson
"Battle rage" seems to be a better choice long term because you have it barely always on. On the other hand, there is another way to configure "WotB" so that it seems to solve the 2 main problems; the duration and rage cost. Do you think it is feasable to use golden runestone with WotB to generate enough rage to remedy for both problems?
Here is my idea: Go golden instead of crimson for WotB. Now, with every 12 rage generated while under the effect of "WotB", you gain 1sec to WotB. The best way to generate fury imo is to use frenzy while dual-wielding mighty weapons with weapons master. Dual-wielding mighty weapons give a 1 fury per hit (2 fury every attack with dual-wield). With 1h weapons, you can go up to 1.5 attack/sec and with a 120% bonus to attack speed (from frenzy fully stacked and WotB), this means approximately 3 attack/sec.
Calculating:
Fury from Weapons master: 6 fury/sec
Fury from Ancient spear: 2.9 fury/sec
Fury from Frenzy: 9 fury/sec
Total fury: 18fury/sec (of course this is theorycraft and stuns comming in will lower this a bit)
It seems like you could go on an eternal rampage given those numbers if you can keep launching all attacks. To launch all attacks, you must keep pace with your ennemy and this is the whole purpose of sprint boosted to 80% increased movement speed. This being said, i can't say if you agree with the idea but i think i could try to play it like this:
Battling order
1. Use Ancient spear (29 fury generated and ennemy is slowed for x secs)
2. Use Frenzy (fully stack frenzy bonus)
- When you can't keep up anymore, use sprint
- Use "Overpower" whenever possible
3. Keep boosting fury up to full power (should take between 5-10sec depending)
4. Use "Wrath of the Berserker"
- Use "Overpower" followed by "Hammer of the ancients" whenever possible
If there are configurable macros like in Wow, after reaching 100 fury again, you could use a weapon swaping macro to alternate between fury generation (dual-wield, mighty weapons) and damage output (2H, Other weapon type).
Wd and monk builds aready have what is needed as supportive means, (maximum attack damage increase, crowd control and supportive healing). This is why i did not wanna take War cry in. Sprint seems for me as something which would eventually pay out because you will basically be able to catch up anytime on the ennemy. It complements WotB well because there is no point having good stats if you cannot deal all attacks because your opponent is constantly running away and kitting you all the time you are under Wotb. On the other hand, is was thorned between taking Battle rage ot Wotb since it seems to be a fury issue.
0
You pointed out something of great interest revealing the 2-hand weapon vs dualwield dilema. In Wow, you could make macros which let you automize certain things like swaping weapons (2hvsDW). Using this swaping device, some things may become feasable. For exemple, with "Weapons master", you can dualwield mighty weapons first to generate fury using frenzy (incredible 10 fury per attack total). When Overpower kicks in, you can trade off the dual-wielded mighty weapons for a 2h weapon with a different bonus from "Weapons master" like the 5%crit. Then you and start using fury spenders.
In Wow, those macro where easy to create. Will this be something we will be able to tool with in D3?
0
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fRZhjP!Yab!ZbZZZZ
Monk- Supportive and damage-wise monk.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#jXecRd!dfV!ZcaZZa
WD- Fetish voodoo crowd controling wd.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ePUcdQ!UWf!cZYcaZ
0
You might be right on certain points. This build was aimed at fully exploit Wrath of the berserker by taking sprint (80% movement speed) so that the opponent could not dodge it very well. Maybe investing towards kiting might not work out as well as i plan because all of this is theorycraft. We don't know about diminishing returns, dual-wield vs 2h-weapon, global cooldowns, shared CD, macros. Wrath of the berserker and Call of the ancient might share a cooldown for example. Going sprint with Wrath of the berserker to exploit it so that you can launch the full potential of it?
0
You see, i went with the passive skill unforgiving. It will generate rage over time so that i don't need to use Ancient spear to generate the fury i need to kite you. I only need to stack up some fury by keeping myself away from you until i got enough. Then, i can kite you with "War cry"/"Weapon throw"/"Battle rage"/"Sprint" while you try to catch up to me to generate some fury. What will you do? Try to run after me like a kitty. If you ever manage to ancient spear me, i will be slowed for 3 secs, loose few HP because you got shit unless you use your 75 fury skills. And for god sake, don't think that those retarded ancients will do a lot if they have the same retarded AI as i saw in D2 while my bear was always stuck the head in some corner. When you're on CD with ancients, you are weaker than me hands down no question even if you stun me for 3 secs. If you slow me, i will still be faster than you with sprint so good luck catching up to me. Maybe call of the "Ancients">"Battle rage" versus a retard who stands there like a scarecrow but i will almost always have battle rage on wilst you will have you're 3 retarded companions only half of the time.
0
[/quote]
I can just push the srint button and run away... no need for Ignore pain...
Marathon with Wrath of the berserker(100% increased movement speed) will be a pain for you to escape and i will exploit it to it's full extend since i will be able to launch full APS during 15 secs unless i get stunned. If you have a slow effect coupled with that, i will be moving like 4 times faster than you will. You're tree newb barbarians friends will have a fun time running behind me and launch 0 damage during 15secs.
0
The way a warrior was designed in WoW was to bleed your opponent by inflicting Dot, wait until he bleeded enough and then rely upon critical hits and slows to kill him. If Blizzard keeps the same path, i will probably be the best way to play the barbarian as PVP.
Two things that is to consider is global cooldown and 2hand vs dual-wield and this will be affecting much the way a barbarian can be played. Those two mechanics will have a huge impact on the viability of builds.
My opinion about your build:
You're build would be definetly good in PVE since you will be able to stun a lot and tank damage. For a PVP build, i would recommand you not to focus too heavily on stuns, be sure that you have good mobility and rely upon critical strikes to land you're damage whilst being able to kite a bit yourself and get out of trouble if needed.
Healing...
I think that the best mitigating/replenishing skill might be comming from War cry with Alabaster. You can regenerate away from your target, something that can't be done if you rely upon Ancient spear with obsidian. This means that if you are in big trouble, you're only option for healing will be to engage in fight which if you are too low on Hp, won't be a good idea.
Bash...
Bash with obsidian seems ok to me for PVP. One big question: will dual-wield provide more chances to stun since you launch more attacks? If so, you should consider this skill to be best suited for dual-wield. The problem i see with going for 2x 1-handed swords is that weapon damage based ability would provide lower bonuses (unless i am not aware of all the mechanics). If this skill is best suited for dual-wield, it won't be good to use it with Hammer of the ancients and Weapon throw since those skills will be best used with 2h weapons considering throwing a 2h-weapon will hurt more than a 1h (unless you have a macro where you could switch from 2h to dual-wield and vice-versa like there was in WoW but this would still not be optimal and micro-consuming).
Leap attack, Ancient spear or both?...
Can't tell right now if Leap will be better than Ancient spear for PVP (you can escape with Leap which you cannot with AS and maybe dodge some incomming attacks with it which might be better for PVP). Ancient spear on the other hand, gives better damage and has slow effect. The runestones worth for PVP are golden and alabaster for Leap imo whilst obsidian and golden for AS seem best suited. Taking both skills? Maybe, we will have to wait to see the efficiency of both abilities.
Hammer of the ancient...
A classic for PVP imo. Crimson seems to get the best out of it. This spell suits Overpower very well.
Weapon throw...
Defenitly go for crimson runestone especially if you intend to use "No escape" as a passive ability.
Ignore pain...
I think that this skill is best used for tanking in PVE. As soon as someone will see you use this spell, they will just try go get away and wait until it expires.
0
There was a mistake in the build, trade ruthless for unforgiving.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#RgWYjP!Vhf!baZZZZ
You're build will totaly fail in PVP. Don't expect stun locks with Pvp, this is not bound to happen. Diminishing return will surely apply. Further more, you rely upon luck for your stuns which is a totally bad idea imo. You can't just drag him to you and hit every button until it's him or you especially if you are counting upon x%chance runes. I don't believe that this kind of playstyle cuts it in arena or battleground. Plus, you got poor synergy between your skills.
More fails:
- Ignore pain is a Tank ability which is purpose is most likely for PVE. You trigger this and i can just run away for 10secs.
- Juggernaut would not regenerate any hit points versus a build like mine and the 20% mitigation for imparing effects would not matter much. With Srpint upg to marathon, you would have poor escaping chances if you are down on hp.
- In pure meel combat, you would fail completely versus a build like mine improving stats much.
- Superstition won't help you much versus another Warrior or a Monk, it's just a bad passive skill
- Relying so much on stuns would end up be a fail versus any warrior going Juggernault as an example
My build does'nt rely solely on Weapon throw, but it's maxed out so that it becomes a powerfull kiting tool coupled with mobility. I kite, bring hp down and when it's low enough, i end it out on close combat. I rely upon boosted stats on normal attacks, maxed mobility and slow effects so that there is no means of escaping if you are caught down on hp. As fury generator, i got unforgiving which can help me keep rage going up so i got no need for active fury generators. When i am below 20% (27% because it is 20% of 135%), i can spam throw an deploy all my arsenal for free and with 50% damage reduction, it seems better than you're ignore pain ability imo. I just have to kite you until i got enough Fury and then hit. The whole point of this build is not to go all-in at first sight, it is to lower Hp and wait for proper moment to engage in hand to hand combat. When i am ready to engage in close range, i got high survivability and insane attack boost stacking up with each other. My normal damage will deal more than you're rage consuming abilities when i use them in conjonction and you won't be able to escape shit because i will sprint up your ass (105% Attack improvement, 100% movement speed, 45% attack speed, 10% critical hit). I could just kite you to death with you're pittyfull build without even having to engage you once.
Bottom line: Unless there is no such thing as diminishing returns in this game, you're build is just some ordinary build which will never make the cut in the long run.
0
Wanted to hear what you guys think of such a build for PVP circumstances. The build as i named it, focuses on having high movement and attack speed. It seems overwell balanced so it could be viable versus many classes, especially kiting classes (WD,DH,Wz). The point of having mobility is to be able to capitalize over APS and kite more efficiently. Everyone agrees that there is no point going into frenzy if you can't catch up and launch full APS. I explain:
1. First of all, kite and remove precious Hp from your opponent:
Acquire Fury---> [Passive skill: "Unforgiving"], [Active skill: "War cry" (Alabaster)]
Deal damage---> [Active skill: "Battle Rage" (Crimson), "Weapon Throw" (Crimson)], [Passive skill: "No escape"]
High mobility---> [Active skill: "Sprint" (Crimson)]
*Keep your Hp up while you kite with War cry
2. When you kited enough and got at least 20 Fury:
Boost Attack---> [Active skill: "Battle Rage" (Crimson)]
Get more Fury---> [Active skill: "Ancient spear" (Golden)]
* Now you got at least 30 Fury
Spam ---> [Active skill: "Weapon Throw" (Crimson)]
3. Now you are below 20% hp, it is time to go into rampage. You should last at least 15 sec:
Survivability---> [Active skill: "War cry" (Alabaster)], [Passive skill: "Relentless"]
*All skills cost no fury with relentless
Enter berserker mode---> [Active skill: "Battle Rage" (Crimson), "Sprint" (Crimson), "WotB" (Crimson)
Finish move---> [Active skill: "Weapon Throw" (Crimson)]