Even still - I think they've incorperated enough variation in the skillset for each to thoroughly provide a new experience. I mean, if the Barbarian (who has changed relatively little when compared to the other classes) can continue to bring me back, then the new lifeblood imbued into each of these "new" D3 classes will certainly make for good time wasters!
There's a lot of us that still want/need keys. I'd say there's even a good liklihood that many of them have entered as many (if not more) of the fansite giveaways than yourself (I've even entered some of the regional fansite giveaways). Does that mean we'll get them - no.
Here's a funny story: I've been part of almost every Blizzard beta trial to date (on one account or another) and finally when the 1 game that matters to me has its beta - guess who did not get an invite. This guy. I suppose that's my punishment for not providing much feedback during the Lich King beta trial (I was stationed overseas during much of Cata and found little time to play.)
One thing I will say - not playing the beta can be a reward unto itself. While you might miss out on some of the experience and will have to play a little bit of catch-up you don't confused by any changes that manifest in the retail version of the game! Additionally, if you enjoy the lore and the story-line - you get to see it all with fresh eyes!
Do I still want-in on this Beta you bet your sweet aspercreme I do.
A final point about the class conformity is people are afraid of change and resist, it’s a normal human behavior. Until people are playing the full deal you're going to see a lot of posts of "this doesn't work or make sense".
Well I think when the game finally launches and everyone gets the chance to really see what's happening they'll either like it or they won't. That being said, if the RMAH works how it's intended then blizz will have a new cash-cow on its hands and I'm sure they'll leave a couple devs dedicated to correcting in-game problems (like skill imbalances) to ensure game longevity.
I may not be adding on how you can improve your system but like you I'm killing time and giving you input on how I feel about it.
Yeah, good deal!
I was mostly interested in trying to dissolve the tension between the Blue posts and the "hardcore" (not in the diablo HC Mode sense) players by putting another concept out there.
The one thing I think everyone fears is that the new system, as-is, might not have the ability to make players feel original or unique. Class conformity is a boring concept so hopefully (as Bash has stated and you have reiterated) that can be avoided. I think when y ou factor everything together:
*Play Style
*Class Selection/Party Composition
*Farming Territory (Where people choose to slay foes)
*Rune Skill System
The liklihood of seeing many cookie-cutter specs is slim (provided there's not a few obviously overpowering skills).
Hmm yah that could work... but the issue with that is you can't level anything up until level 60. You don't open all your abilities for your rune passives till then so if you ever did want to try out a different move because of the new rune passive you lose all your "grinded" boost and have to do it all over again each time... I suppose that temporarily increase short term longevity adding grinding features if these bonuses are significant enough skew the balance of things.
Well I want to emphasize that the idea here isn't to create a massive power swing by mastering a skill so much as providing a small reward for sticking with the choices you've made.
...and there's no need to wait to 60. You could "master" a given skill rune as soon as it's available.
During leveling periods it might disuade people from always choosing a new rune when it becomes available due to this notion everyone seems to have that a rune unlocked at a later level must be better than one unlocked earlier - which is clearly not the case.
End game it could be a good way to encourage people to play THEIR character more than playing the one everyone says they should.
And like I said earlier - it doesn't have to be a long grind. It could be just 15-30 minutes for a given skill. In the scheme of how long people will be playing this game it wouldn't take more than a day or two to completely master all new skill runes.
Just trying to offer up some good discussion here to kill time :).
Your temporary boost suggestion is interesting but it would also make people just spam a couple of moves to build up the passives, thus going back to D2 and spamming two moves.... or playing for a long period of time to hit the max for all your abilities.
That's not exactly what I meant.
What I meant was, using one built it up to a max level. It doesn't deteriorate unless you choose to begin grinding a new one. The idea is that you're somewhat rewarded for sticking with a particular skillset.
Like with anything the more you do it, the better at it you become. As you stop doing it, you get a little rusty.
The only reason I bring it up is because it seems there are 2 main complaints by the individuals who are not fans of the current skill rune design:
1. They fear lack of uniqueness. With this "system" someone would have to at least put in a little time to imitate a build that they saw elsewhere. I believe that concept might at least mildly satiate those individuals.
2. Lack of investment. The other major complaint I've seen is that there's no reprocussions for switching all the time. Instead of having to modify your play style (for a given encounter) to work with the decisions you've made (with regard to skill selection) you can just swap on the fly and let the rune system trivialize content for you.
They have end game gear that has + to skills i.e. more damage etc... That basically covers most of the points you’re looking for. If you grab this type of gear you’re obviously going to use that move more unless you hate it then you can sell it.
Oh, I'm not worried about the system. To be honest, I think it'll make the game better overall. What I'm attempting to hash-out in my mind is a way for blizzards recently "casual-friendly" style to meet with the desires of the more hardcore RPG fanbase that seems to have been offended by the skill rune system.
I know the skill system is probably going to go ahead from this point unchanged (for the most part) but I'm wondering if they hadn't considered the idea of a "mastery" system.
Time spent using any given runed (or unruned) version of a skill could build up a "mastery" meter. It could have several thresholds where upon reaching each you get a small bonus to the runed version of the skill you're using (extra bolt, dmg %, range, etc.) until it's "maxed".
By switching to another skill rune and casting/using it often you build its meter up while simultaneously detracting from the prior. The meter-build time doesn't have to be much - maybe 15-30 minutes worth of play time (predetermined by a set number of casts or kills with a technique). Ultimately allowing you to only have 1 rune maxed per skill at a time.
That would be in keeping with the current design concept:
It allows for sampling of new techniques and the "penatly" for switching would be minimal - really just a small amount of time lost.
I think additionally it would provide the feeling of "investment" in decisions that the more avid RPG fans are seeking. I posted about it under one of my WoW toons names on the D3 forums - just search for Kankles.
It's a bit more detailed in explanation than is listed here.
1. Packs of cows can be extremely dangerous on an unstable connection. I've hardwired all my computers again to eliminated the possibility of Wifi related issues and payed for better internet so even on "bad" days I've got the connection I need. On that note - make sure no one else in the house is downloading a movie :| ..... because running across the house going "Are you on the internet right now?!?!..." doesn't get your level 97 Javazon back.
2. Test new zones on softcore first. Can't even count the number of times I'd wished I'd done that. Playing a melee class (Barbarian on D2) you got pretty dependant on life-leach when WW'ing through a big pack of mobs. Finding out they can't be leached from..... priceless.
3. Don't trust strangers.... POP... that's all I can say. Private games are the way to go after you've grinded through the early levels.
4. Hunter Tactics FTW. Kite outlying mobs away from large packs where possible. Fighting a pack of 6 is a lot easier than a pack of 12, you just have to pick away at 'em.
5. Any mob that is Extra Fast, Spectral, Lightning Enchanted, known to knock-back, or any combination thereof is dangerous.... very dangerous. Not to mention their lackies who share in the fun.
6. The best offense is a good defense. If it's harder for you to die, then obviously it's easier for you to live. Vitality, heavy leaching, pots, mercs, anything that helps lay down a buffer will get you far.
7. The best defense is a good offense? I know it's the opposite of what I already said, but sometimes being able to take a mob down fast is better than not being able to kill it at all - in which case you'll never see the end of the game.
8. Esc key is your friend, your best friend.
9. A dead hardcore character can't harvest Inferno difficulty gear for you anymore - no RMAH for you good sir.
I'm sure there's a ton of those "tricks of the trade" missing from this little list that won't come back to me until it's too late.... here's to remembering them in time!
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Barb -> Barb
Necromancer -> Witch Doctor
Amazon -> Demon Hunter
Sorceress -> Wizard
Paladin -> Monk
Even still - I think they've incorperated enough variation in the skillset for each to thoroughly provide a new experience. I mean, if the Barbarian (who has changed relatively little when compared to the other classes) can continue to bring me back, then the new lifeblood imbued into each of these "new" D3 classes will certainly make for good time wasters!
0
Here's a funny story: I've been part of almost every Blizzard beta trial to date (on one account or another) and finally when the 1 game that matters to me has its beta - guess who did not get an invite. This guy. I suppose that's my punishment for not providing much feedback during the Lich King beta trial (I was stationed overseas during much of Cata and found little time to play.)
One thing I will say - not playing the beta can be a reward unto itself. While you might miss out on some of the experience and will have to play a little bit of catch-up you don't confused by any changes that manifest in the retail version of the game! Additionally, if you enjoy the lore and the story-line - you get to see it all with fresh eyes!
Do I still want-in on this Beta you bet your sweet aspercreme I do.
0
Starship Troopers!
The Protoss never appeared though.
Haha!
0
Well I think when the game finally launches and everyone gets the chance to really see what's happening they'll either like it or they won't. That being said, if the RMAH works how it's intended then blizz will have a new cash-cow on its hands and I'm sure they'll leave a couple devs dedicated to correcting in-game problems (like skill imbalances) to ensure game longevity.
"Top men will work on it!"
"Who?"
"... TOP MEN."
0
Yeah, good deal!
I was mostly interested in trying to dissolve the tension between the Blue posts and the "hardcore" (not in the diablo HC Mode sense) players by putting another concept out there.
The one thing I think everyone fears is that the new system, as-is, might not have the ability to make players feel original or unique. Class conformity is a boring concept so hopefully (as Bash has stated and you have reiterated) that can be avoided. I think when y ou factor everything together:
*Play Style
*Class Selection/Party Composition
*Farming Territory (Where people choose to slay foes)
*Rune Skill System
The liklihood of seeing many cookie-cutter specs is slim (provided there's not a few obviously overpowering skills).
0
Well I want to emphasize that the idea here isn't to create a massive power swing by mastering a skill so much as providing a small reward for sticking with the choices you've made.
...and there's no need to wait to 60. You could "master" a given skill rune as soon as it's available.
During leveling periods it might disuade people from always choosing a new rune when it becomes available due to this notion everyone seems to have that a rune unlocked at a later level must be better than one unlocked earlier - which is clearly not the case.
End game it could be a good way to encourage people to play THEIR character more than playing the one everyone says they should.
And like I said earlier - it doesn't have to be a long grind. It could be just 15-30 minutes for a given skill. In the scheme of how long people will be playing this game it wouldn't take more than a day or two to completely master all new skill runes.
Just trying to offer up some good discussion here to kill time :).
0
That's not exactly what I meant.
What I meant was, using one built it up to a max level. It doesn't deteriorate unless you choose to begin grinding a new one. The idea is that you're somewhat rewarded for sticking with a particular skillset.
Like with anything the more you do it, the better at it you become. As you stop doing it, you get a little rusty.
The only reason I bring it up is because it seems there are 2 main complaints by the individuals who are not fans of the current skill rune design:
1. They fear lack of uniqueness. With this "system" someone would have to at least put in a little time to imitate a build that they saw elsewhere. I believe that concept might at least mildly satiate those individuals.
2. Lack of investment. The other major complaint I've seen is that there's no reprocussions for switching all the time. Instead of having to modify your play style (for a given encounter) to work with the decisions you've made (with regard to skill selection) you can just swap on the fly and let the rune system trivialize content for you.
0
Oh, I'm not worried about the system. To be honest, I think it'll make the game better overall. What I'm attempting to hash-out in my mind is a way for blizzards recently "casual-friendly" style to meet with the desires of the more hardcore RPG fanbase that seems to have been offended by the skill rune system.
0
Time spent using any given runed (or unruned) version of a skill could build up a "mastery" meter. It could have several thresholds where upon reaching each you get a small bonus to the runed version of the skill you're using (extra bolt, dmg %, range, etc.) until it's "maxed".
By switching to another skill rune and casting/using it often you build its meter up while simultaneously detracting from the prior. The meter-build time doesn't have to be much - maybe 15-30 minutes worth of play time (predetermined by a set number of casts or kills with a technique). Ultimately allowing you to only have 1 rune maxed per skill at a time.
That would be in keeping with the current design concept:
It allows for sampling of new techniques and the "penatly" for switching would be minimal - really just a small amount of time lost.
I think additionally it would provide the feeling of "investment" in decisions that the more avid RPG fans are seeking. I posted about it under one of my WoW toons names on the D3 forums - just search for Kankles.
It's a bit more detailed in explanation than is listed here.
0
1. Packs of cows can be extremely dangerous on an unstable connection. I've hardwired all my computers again to eliminated the possibility of Wifi related issues and payed for better internet so even on "bad" days I've got the connection I need. On that note - make sure no one else in the house is downloading a movie :| ..... because running across the house going "Are you on the internet right now?!?!..." doesn't get your level 97 Javazon back.
2. Test new zones on softcore first. Can't even count the number of times I'd wished I'd done that. Playing a melee class (Barbarian on D2) you got pretty dependant on life-leach when WW'ing through a big pack of mobs. Finding out they can't be leached from..... priceless.
3. Don't trust strangers.... POP... that's all I can say. Private games are the way to go after you've grinded through the early levels.
4. Hunter Tactics FTW. Kite outlying mobs away from large packs where possible. Fighting a pack of 6 is a lot easier than a pack of 12, you just have to pick away at 'em.
5. Any mob that is Extra Fast, Spectral, Lightning Enchanted, known to knock-back, or any combination thereof is dangerous.... very dangerous. Not to mention their lackies who share in the fun.
6. The best offense is a good defense. If it's harder for you to die, then obviously it's easier for you to live. Vitality, heavy leaching, pots, mercs, anything that helps lay down a buffer will get you far.
7. The best defense is a good offense? I know it's the opposite of what I already said, but sometimes being able to take a mob down fast is better than not being able to kill it at all - in which case you'll never see the end of the game.
8. Esc key is your friend, your best friend.
9. A dead hardcore character can't harvest Inferno difficulty gear for you anymore - no RMAH for you good sir.
I'm sure there's a ton of those "tricks of the trade" missing from this little list that won't come back to me until it's too late.... here's to remembering them in time!
Cheers!
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0