Gibson is correct, but it has little to do with the Book of Cain. The Pandemonium Event, or Uber Diablo for that matter, were never canonical events. Even during the days of D2, before the Sin War books etc., it made absolutely no logical, metaphysical or narrative sense within the Diablo Universe. They were two fun events designed to deal with design flaws within D2, nothing more.Quote from mooclwon
Did we fight Lilith in the pandemonium event or was that purely a game event and didn't really happen lore wise?
- Registered User
Member for 14 years, 6 months, and 25 days
Last active Sat, Jan, 18 2014 22:23:24
- 51 Followers
- 12,879 Total Posts
- 213 Thanks
Feb 24, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Feb 24, 2012Posted in: General Discussion (non-Diablo)
LinkX was just taking a jab at all the countless people over the years (myself included once) who've made farewell threads as soon as they leave the forums. Sometimes it's been warranted, sometimes not so much. Though it is much more common for people to announce their return...Quote from FreddyBenson
ive no idea myself now lol
Feb 23, 2012Posted in: General Discussion (non-Diablo)
Well taht is true, but I think it's time we move past the "you're only an oldtimer if you were here in '06"-mentality. It's like distinguishing between the Jurassic and Cretaceous; we're all dinosaur anywayQuote from LinkX
I joined in '07, so I don't get the illustrious '06 gloating rights. Link has a sad.
Yes. I mean you don't have to make a public thread or anything, but do tell someone at least.Quote from Umpa
HEY! If you ever have the need to say goodbye here, actually say goodbye. Let us all know where you are going and that you're not dead.
Feb 22, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
I'm not so certain we'll get an explanation about it, but something along those lines seems to be the most reasonable explanation at least.Quote from Damerflinn
I had never thought of the crown, and why it would be needed to kill him. It's certainly an interesting question. And I can see us getting more detail. But it still makes sense. Traditionally ghosts are things that are holding onto this world, and items of personal value often can be a center for their energies. When you encoutner him before, he's in a more corpreal state, but when you put the crown on his head, he takes a physical form, instead of summoning other demons to do his bidding, I mean he could have struck down Cain all by himself but he chooses to use summons instead. So I think the crown is what was needed to defeat not only his body, but the part of his soul that was tethered to the world. But that's just logic attached to speculation, and I'm hoping that it's revealed more in the full game.
That to me doesn't seem all that unreasonable. I mean, if this had not been a story and he's revived again, really pissed off, and faces off some (as far as he can tell) random adventurer, I'd be pretty cocky too.Quote from Damerflinn
I found it very odd that the first real mini boss would say something like "You shall never defeat me." It seemed really cheesy, and not placed well. I mean think about it, we're obviously going to defeat him, he's the first damn boss.
Something I find much more strange is the first time you encounter him, when he says "The power of the fallen star awakened me". How does he know it was a fallen star? Or a more prudent question, why does he assume like all the townsfolk, who actually was something fall, that it's a star? He was dead and gone, buried underground, and he only just woke up after the thing crashed. He's talked to no one, and all he knows is that there's a big blue hole in the ground. And even if he suspected that, why say "the power of the fallen star?" As far as we know it's definitely not a star, and if anyone else knows this it ought to be Leoric. It seems like he's only saying it so the player gets a quick explanation for why he's not dead anymore.
Btw, kickass name Damerflinn. I always liked Flinn best of the Asha'man
Feb 21, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Well then how can you know there won't be any "Xel'Naga" mentioned in D3?
Second, it is true that there really isn't much to go on because of how much Blizz is trying to keep hidden. I am also trying to keep as much hidden as possible so I have not really sought out too much of the datamined spoilers. I also have not read the books but it is on my to do list. That being said, I am up to date on the lore from the wiki site and from ForceStrategy Gaming Diablo Cast episodes where you speak about the lore in the books.
Feb 21, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Ok first of all he's just a greenskin, so pay no attention to him
Wow, I can't believe I attracted the attention of two moderators. I'm flattered.
You're right, they're not the same at all. To be honest I think it's at least partly an aesthetic decision: the original layout from D1 is very spacious and would probably look rather weird if it was out into the new D3 Sanctuary alongside all the other towns.
I had a couple other thoughts on this recently. Having only played D2 (but seen D1 on multiple occasions), I became familiar with the layout for tristram. Is it me or does D3's Tristram not really resemble prior layouts? I know there are similar locations like the blacksmith and Adria's house but I'm not sure if they're even in the same spots they used to be in. Also, what would really help me get a better feel for it would to actually get my hands on the beta. That way I would know for sure.
I don't think one should mistake ignorance on the player's behalf with immersion. D2 contains just as much, or rather just as little, as it did when it was released. D3 by comparison is by almost any metric a much more developed and fully-fledged world.
For intance, SC1 spoke about the Xel'Naga like we all knew what they were talking about and D2 talked about the lesser and greater Evil's the same way. Normally, I would think I would have a problem with this because I can't relate to what the character's are refering to. However, it seemed this element made the SC1 and D2 universe much more immersive: It gave impression there was a dynamic world to discover. Phrozen, I've heard you on podcasts and I know you're a lore expert so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this and also why/if this element does not seem to be in D3?
What I think you really mean is that SC1 and D2 introduced new story concepts which you were unfamiliar with, while D3 seems to just expand on exactly what you learned in D2. And that is certainly true so far, but any new developments that stray from what we know from D2 would be considered spoilers and would be information that Blizzard would not give out to us.
Let me ask you, how many of the books/datamined spoilers have you looked over?
Feb 21, 2012Posted in: General Discussion (non-Diablo)
I was like "wait a minute, I don't remember no DarkJayII ever posting... oh it's from today."
Did you all ever see a ghost? Now its not the normal Darkjay as i cant remember the password but it is close. I think
If you're looking for old-timers they're few and far in between. The only '06 members I can think of who are still active would be me, Siyanoq and Fingolfin_GR. Though I do see a lot of others lurking from time to time.
Sure does look the same to me. So who all is still active? I will at least be on occasionally I miss everyone. Any chance i can get my old acct back?
Message Daemaro, he should be able to fix it for you.
Yea forgot password i usually keep the same one but for somereason it has not worked, I even tried the other variations i do. So its been nearly 4 years and im still #12 in the post count lol
Oh come on Siya, you've been pulling that excuse for years. Although I guess the wall of text part is still as true as everQuote from Siaynoq
I've kind of become like an old man that everyone ignores. I'll write these long wall of texts sometimes in a thread and most the time people just ignore it. LOL
Feb 18, 2012EDIT: I retract what I just said. After becoming uncertain, I checked the Diablo II Manual and did find one place where they're called the Northern Steppes. Though it hasn't been used anywhere I guess you would still be technically correct.Posted in: Site Feedback
That being said, Mount Arreat is such a defining factor of the region, and a much more well-known descriptor that I'm not sure this would invalidate answering Mount Arreat.
Feb 18, 2012I definitely agree with your point on the Haedrig thing, it is rather unbelievable that in two seconds he doesa 180 and goes in and murders everyone. Obviously this is a gameplay thing, since the focus is on people not having to stand around and listed to quest dialogues all that muchin D3, but I agree that it could have been handled better. Your suggestion is a good one.Posted in: Lore & Storyline
But the point isn't so much to inform us, it's to weave us into the world and prevent us from remembering that there's a UI overlay telling us with divine power what our purpose is.Quote from Zaxlor
Almost like the Skeleton King dilema. Cain telling you "This is the only route Hero, we can only go deeper into the crypts from here. There is no turning back!" would help, but you've already got a quest telling you to slay him anyways. Hopefully, there isn't alot of this in game.
Though to be honest I hadn't really reflected on the crown thing until I read it here. I guess that goes to show you how ingrained the "fetch arbitrary item to proceed further"-mentality is in a gamer's head
Feb 18, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Book of Cain doesn't meantion an angelic forge =/= Heaven doesn't have any forges. Heaven certainly has a means to produce weapons and armor, not to mention the Pandemonium Fortress, which was alsu built by Heaven.Quote from Ralnon7
Well, it's kind of ironic, because Hell actually has its own Forge, and Heaven doesn't, as far as we know.
Not if:Quote from Ralnon7
The Angiris Council are really interesting characters, but it just seems strange that for all their power and items of power (the Sword, Cord, Spear, Scroll and Chalice), they've never been able to kill even one of the seven Great Evils over thousands of years (while a few humans with untapped potential were able to slaughter five in maybe a week), and the Angels, for all their weapons, still haven't won a war against disorganized hordes of unarmed creatures...
1) There are way more demons than angels
2) Demons are, on average, stronger than angels or,
3) Demons aren't as disorganized as one might think
It could be any number of other reasons. Perhaps demons are more like cannon-fodder. Equipping these with gear equal to what angels wear would in that case be impossible if they die 3 times faster, even in a fantasy setting that'd be economically impossible.
Agreed. Fallen, Megademons, Overseers etc. Like I said above, it could be any number of reasons. Some use weapons, some don't.Quote from Milknut
Well plenty of the lesser demons use weapons.
Feb 18, 2012Siggard's story will likely not be implemented, the events in Demonsbane make absolutely no chronological sense with the rest of the lore these days. If he came back in the story somehow it would be heavily retconned, though I guess that's a possibility. The basic premise of him being a human who awakens in nephalem powers is certainly there, so perhaps.Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Other than that, I guess I'd really like to see more of the nephalem in general. Who they were and what happened between them after Lilith murdered their parents.
Feb 18, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
If you just want a recap and get up to date on the current state of the lore, then the Book of Cain is definitely the one you want to get.Quote from Exostra
Hey guys.I've never read any diablo books and now I am thinking to read them before the game come out.What do you think should I buy all books or just the book of cain for a nice recap of the story?
If you want some additional lore and an in-depth look at what happened during the Sin War, try the Sin War novels, starting with Birthright.
The other books you could check out if you want to, but they're not considered canon.
Feb 17, 2012Posted in: Lore & Storyline
Well most of it probably wasn't really though of by the time the game was madeQuote from Zaxlor
Ah, awesome, thanks alot for that! It's a shame that more of this wasn't in game, thought i suppose the way that Diablo 3 is handling lore will make things in the new game abit more easier to understand. I'm guessing there's some kind of Codex, or Lore book in D3 that you can re-read though?
As for where this information comes from, it's mainly the Book of Cain. You can also check out the Sin War lore reference, though that's probably going to be dull without having read the books. I would have advised you to read the Lore Summary as well, but as of this moment it's quite out of date and will need to be reworked to be fully accurate.
- To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Jun 30, 2011Posted in: News
Nice. I hope it's more than simply a recap of D2&1. Wait it has to be, it's clearly not marketed to the casual Diablo gamer.Quote from Medievaldragon
Hi guys, I posted about this book around 3am EST when I saw it at Amazon. More info in a few days. I can confirm -- Diablo III: Book of Cain is CANON.
Jun 17, 2011...Except Diablo is the Lord of Terror.Posted in: News
Anyway, besides that little detail it's an interesting idea, the idea that the Prime Evils are the essences of Hatred, Terror and Destruction, and that they can't really die so long as those three domains exist. It's an theory I've thought makes sense which explains why the Lesser Evils chose to exile the Three rather than kill them, and how Diablo could return in D3. It fits somewhat yes, but there's no direct support for such a cosmic mechanic.
Jun 5, 2011Posted in: News
Remember that Mephisto is the Lord of Hate. What is he going to do, hate you to death? Yet he's still quite powerful. No reason Belial couldn't be as well.
Considerating that Azmodan - Lord of Sin sound way more like warrior than than Belial - Lord of Lies / I mean boss killing mechanics/ hard to imagine Belial as boss who lies to u and making critical shots with it / if u know what I mean - so I expect him more as NPC who making some kind of intrigue more than boss who u kill by sword / even Jay Wison said that in Act 2 gonna be some kind of intrigue - > Who could lie better than Belial ,? (noone ofc )
I understand that you want your theory to be true, but I don't give it much hope. The most telling problem is that Tyrael was with Cain during the whole of Act IV, and on top of that Tyrael has sworn an oath to protect the Horadrim. He would know if Belial was directly controlling Cain.
even for 20 years he could be within Cain ( unless he really had civil war in hall against Azmo ) Is it possible he was controling cain from Hell ? Im huge fan of this theory ( cain beeing Belial's "spy" for 20 years ) for me that would be so orginal and cool - holywood thriller style , thats why I m asking u guys who r way more into lore of D3
But could Cain be a servant without being controlled? Maybe, but there's no trace throughout the games that Cain would be a servant of Belial. You could argue that Cain is so good at covering his tracks that nobody suspects, but then you've created a theory that can't be disproved, a classic conspiracy.
Jun 4, 2011If we'd cut out all my "uuh" "eeh" and "aah" parts, the cast would only have been 46 minutes longPosted in: News
I'll complement what Daemaro wrote. I agree with the siding with demons part, unless Imperious goes as crazy as Inarius does in the end of the books, he's never siding with Hell.
I have a couple of questions to Phrozen :
Could the meteor be Imperius? I don't know. Any theory involving that meteor has to be based on so many assumptions at this point that it becomes impossible to say anything definitive.
Extremely unlikely. It's very far-fetched, it requires Belial to leave the current civil war with Azmodan, it also requires him to remain in Cain for 20 years without doing much. That's a lot of time wasted that could be better spent elsewhere, especially since it likely means losing all of Hell to Azmodan. Plus it might conflict with Worldstone mechanics, but that's speculation based on speculation...
2 : Have u been thinking that Decard Cain might be possesed by Belial, Lord of Lies ?( Why in diablo 2 in tristram all of people have been slain ( griswold became demon and so on ) Only Cain was imprisoned - maybe there was a reason to "spere" him or maybe he wasnt same Cain he was before invasion ?
Why was Cain imprisoned? It could have been as punishment, instead of dying quickly you'd have to watch everyone you know become undead as you starve to death. This is also the area where game mechanics start directly affecting the lore. Cain had to survive for the story's sake, which has to be taken into account when considering why he lived.
Yeah that's a good point, it could very well work that way in theory.
whoa. Scyberdragon crushed me in the cast! I figured that passive or no, they are still technically a 'skill' and thus, with a runestone insert that could, in theory, change the effect, perhaps even drastically and lead to more unique character build considerations. *laughing* ah-well. Thanks for the broadcast mention, Sixen. Lore was interesting.
Never!Quote from ScyberDragon
2. Damn you Phrozen, you are just mad because you know I am right about my Mighty Morphing prime evils theory.
May 23, 2011Posted in: News
There are no good guys, which could perhaps have been made clearer in the video. It's not a fight between good and evil but between order and chaos (roughly speaking).
It was mentioned in the beginning that there has been a battle between angels and demons since the beginning of time yet we don't know why, so technically we don't know who is REALLY the good guys or even the right side, for all we know it is the demons and hell who has been wronged in some way.
Heaven seems slightly more aligned towards the good people of the world, but not enough so to warrant total cooperation.
Victory by one side would seem to be a cosmological impossibility. The conflict seems inherent to the structure of the universe, and one side just cannot be defeated. It's not even clear whether there's an end to their ranks.
Nor do we know what the winning side (if in deed there ever will be one) plans to do after the victory. Other than throw a party over the enemies corpses. Will they take over the opposing world? Enslavement? etc?
If there is to be winner however, I suspect it will be neither Heaven nor Hell, but either the nephalem or something related to the "others" briefly mentioned in the Sin War novels.
Lilith is not a friend of humanity. She wanted to make them into soldiers yes, but soldiers that served and worshipped her.
Also I remember that Lilith was fought in D2 (I think) but from the video, clearly she seems like a good character, she even seems more beneficial to humanity than her lover (forgot the angels name, Anerius?)
Because when two great forces clash, it's generally a good idea not stand in the middle of them. Especially when said forces will actively try to destroy you if you're not on their side. Choosing a side means only having to worry about one side rather than both.
so why would humanity want to join either side? Neither sound like a good choice, the whole time your looking helping out the angels but are they really in our best interests? (Also relating to my first question).
May 22, 2011Posted in: News
Likewise. If Curse were to fund the rest of my trip I'd happily pay the 175 thoughQuote from Don_guillotine
The problem is -- as others have said -- that the flights and hotels from here (North Europe) would cost $1,500-$2,000/person by minimum, which is far too steep for me.
Seeing as I haven't been to Blizzcon I find it hard to value whether 175 is overpriced or not, though I suppose I would find it worth my money at least once just for the sake of the experience.
They have said that, and I don't expect this year to be different, even withthe raised prices. Marketing costsQuote from f1reburn
Somewhere I read/heard that Blizzard was losing money on Blizzcon. I can imagine things like security costs must be huge. So in my eyes the price is justified, especially considering the demand. If I lived in Anaheim I still wouldn't purchase a ticket.
May 22, 2011Posted in: News
If you're talking about D1 and D2, it's not made clear, but it's entirely possible that the heroes of the games, and many other's beside them in the lore, are individuals who've for some reasons managed to harness these latent powers they possess to varying degrees. It would certainly explain the superhuman feats the heroes are able to pull off.Quote from Raptorbonz42
One question, how are the characters in the games able to use such powerful magic, or is their magic still weakened by the twisted worldstone?
The supressing effect is not something that works like a permanent downward force. This is exemplified by the nephalem during the Sin War: Rathma and Bul-Kathos were never affected by it, only the successive generations born and each new generation more so. Now that the effect is gone, it seems reasonable to assume that it will be a slow process of humanity growing into their potential. First of all, that's kind of the gist of the ending in tVP: humanity got too powerful too fast, and it made the edyrem's powers uncontrollable.Quote from Jackzor
However, that probably doesn't mean that all humans will suddenly have the power of the Nephalem, or otherwise there would be no reason for only five heroes, seeing as humanity would be able to more than defend itself.
Secondly, it's a boring world if everyone becomes a supersoldier instantly. The gift also has to be awoken within each individual, at least of the time of the Worldstone. That will probably be true for still for some time.
May 22, 2011Very cool video and very cool artwork. Not to mention the splendid lore in there. But that's cool Sixen, you just showcase UmpaPosted in: News
Mephisto's blood is not in the Worldstone, or even necessarily related to it. The pact involving his blood was made on the ground of the destroyed Cathedral of Light, probably somewhere around where Kurast lies today. The pact regarding the Worldstone is never explained in the books. Understand that the video is supposed to be devoid of as much speculation as possible.
I enjoyed this post a lot, however, when mankind is indeed given a chance to chose sides by their own, it should also be said that Mephisto's blood is by now in the Worldstone and that Sanctuary belongs to Hell, the Worldstone actively prevents Angels or Demons coming into Sanctuary but since the pact after Uldyssian's sacrifice.
Not true. The old D1 lore states that the Three kill one third of Hell's minions before being banishes, but it's so obscure and old that it's hardly certain to be relevant in the lore developed for D3. No reference is made to the Three being killed during their banishment, and the blood link is conjecture on your part.
The Prime Evils are able to come into Sanctuary, as they are banished by Azmodan and Belial who seek control over Hell, basically Mephisto dies killing one quarter of Hell's minions and respawns into Sanctuary because of his blood being in the Worldstone, alongside his brothers (what happens in Hell at the moment should be quite interesting).
Possibly. It remains to be seen just how much of a renegade Tyrael was during the events of D2. And as for the Angiris seeing the nephalem as a sin, that's basically just Imperius of the five.
Also Tyrael being a renegade among the angels is trying to help mankind fight the demons on Earth but without the consent of The Angiris Council, who looks upon Nephilim as a great sin
Apr 8, 2011Posted in: News
Yes. It's only a matter of time before each episode spans 168 hours. It will be the world's first reality show following the lives of a few ardent DiablofansQuote from jonny_cool
It seams that each episode is longer than the previous one.
Mar 30, 2011Just seems like there's lots of fanboy hate going on here as well.Posted in: News
Valve: Episode 3 not coming out fast enough.
Bioware: Dragon Age 2 being bad for various reasons.
Blizzard: Well... WoW. Need I say more?
All of which would probably vote for Mojang given the chance, even had they not played the game. There's that indie charm over them.
Blizzard should put up links to this. They did last year I think, though it was in the beginning and not near the end when it was needed.
Mar 30, 2011Posted in: News
This may be a dumb question, but did you include the hyphens when you entered it? Because you shouldn't iirc.Quote from Siaynoq
The key isn't working. Do I need to register my D2 classic first?
Maybe it doesn't matter, but I remember not entering the hyphens when I added my games.
- To post a comment, please login or register a new account.