I think that if respec is made a bit harder, it would be done a lot less:
Stays like this -> A lot of repecing, possibly after each encounter, or before.
Locked in areas -> Huge pause before entering those areas
Only in town -> Respecing only when near waypoints and before boss fights
Buying a respec -> Even rarer respec, people deciding between REAL money (as gold can be traded for it) and a repec
Generally speaking, if you don't have to go to town for anything but artisans and quests, people would hesitate going to town just to repec, as that will become less of a focus of the game.
If left unchanged, I can see this issue, some might not call it that, becoming the center point of the game, especially in Inferno and Hell.
In the 2010 BlizzCon, it was revealed that there was 96 886 969 344 different builds in the game.
This number was derived from the number of different active skill combinations (7 skill slots and 24 skills per class): 24*23*22*21*20*19*18/(2*3*4*5*6*7) = 346 104
The number that is left when this id divided form the original number is 279936
This number is the number of different rune combinations per skill. At the time there were 7 skill slots, so that's 7 skills.
That number is X to the 7th power X=6
This means that 6 Runestones were planed.
Now this number is very different:
--------------------------
There are:
24 skills/class
20 passives/class
5 runestones
8 different qualities of runestones
The math:
24*23*22*21*20*19
6*5*4*3*2
number of active skill combinations
5 * 8 + 1
number of different combinations of runes per skill + unruned (if no runes were put into it)
5 different runes * 8 qualities of those runes + unruned
41*41*41*41*41*41 (41^6)
number of different combinations of runes per 6 skills
20*19*18
3*2
number of passive skill combinations
Totaling at: 728 853 334 680 665 040
----------------------------
Recalculated version for less passives:
There are:
24 skills/class
15 passives/class
5 runestones
8 different qualities of runestones
Build combinations: 956 893 437 500 (0,00330/00 of total combinations)
Total combinations: 290 901 988 841 844 380
-------------------
Barbarian
Active Skills: 22
Passive Skills: 15
Number of builds: 530 451 796 875
Number of skill combinations: 94 476 058 707 571 778
Demon Hunter
Active Skills: 23
Passive Skills: 13
Number of builds: 451 106 906 250
Number of skill combinations: 83 836 328 480 574 640
Monk
Active Skills: 21
Passive Skills: 13
Number of builds: 242 492 250 000
Number of skill combinations: 45 118 631 019 401 728
Witch Doctor
Active Skills: 22
Passive Skills: 12
Number of builds: 256 482 187 500
Number of skill combinations: 49 042 259 641 604 104
Wizard
Active Skills: 25
Passive Skills: 12
Number of builds: 608 781 250 000
Number of skill combinations: 116 233 880 268 736 912
-------------------
It has been taken in account that a build consists of a full Tier 7 Runestone in each of the skills and that all 6 active and 3 passive skills have been selected.
In depth math:
Na - Number of active skills (of class)
Np - Number of passive skills (of class)
[Na!/((Na-6)!*6!)] //*Number of combinations of active skills
[5^6] //*Number of Runestone combinations
[Np!/((Np-3)!*3!)] //*Number of combinations of passive skills
While a skill combination can consist of any Tier or no Runestone in each of the skills and that any number of active and passive skills have been selected.
Na - Number of active skills (of class)
Np - Number of passive skills (of class)
36 - Number of Runestone combinations (5*7+1)
The second question is IF IT WERE TO BE CHANGED, so even if you have answered the previous question No, you can still vote on the second one on what do you think WOULD be the best if they change it.
Realistically we should be looking at something like this:
Crimson - What we saw in one of the playthroughs, Zombies stacking up and falling in a row
Indigo - Zombie nova (again, something we saw in a vid)
Obsidian - Charges farther on, dealing less damage.
Gold - Increases damage over time
Alabaster - Knocks back enemies in the way
Well, from a subjective point of view I could point out a ton of things that I would consider to be issue, personally I'm no fan of respecs at all. Objectively however I can't say that unrestricted customization is a bad idea, because a lot of people like that. I will disagree with them, but I won't say that it is a problem, not any more than I will say that the existence of soccer is a problem because it takes up too much of what is shown on TV in the evenings.
Also remember that you can always opt to not respec every 5 minutes and say to yourself "I will only respec in town". I'm sure the people you are playing with will understand.
You have a point there. But from the point of simple math, the current system is definitively not something that Blizzard nor I would agree with. This solution is something that could work (for me and Blizzard), as it is, in my opinion, the simplest. What could be the other?
Maybe this could be turned into a discussion about the best possible way to solve this problem.
So far I can think of these:
- The above (only in town)
- Putting a timer on in
- Being locked while in combat (similar to Stone of Recall)
- Being locked while in certain areas
- Buying a respec (like in WoW)
So which problems are caused by the ability to respec away from town? I can only come up with one, and that is the option to switch to specific skills for something like a boss battle, which I would agree is a cheap way to overcome that obstacle.
I think this is a great idea, but only in Inferno. The other difficulties should be easy enough that stopping to respec would only waste time and make you fall behind the group. I mean why would you spend 30 seconds-a minute on a respec when it would only make a boss go down 10 seconds faster? In Inferno it does make sense because there you might not even be able to take down the boss unless you have very fine tuned skills. Switching to AoE skills for getting to the boss, and then to single target skills for the bossfight, is a very bad way of beating content imo. It forces you to stop the action to adjust things, which Bashiok and Jay have stated multiple times that they don't want, which is partly why they removed inventory management and frequent town visits. It also makes it less important to actually make a good build that works in all situations.
If there are any other problems caused by on-the-fly respecs other than beating specific content, enlighten me.
I am aware that Blizzard doesn't want you to go back to town, and so they have made all these systems to keep you in action, and penalties if you do go back. But, if left unchanged, the skills will become boring, and the game in the process, because if you can respec on-the-fly, it takes all the fun out of the skills you have chosen. If you can change the set you have every 5 minutes or even worse, after every encounter, they might as well let you have 30 skill slots from the start.
I played D&D, and choosing skills before you go slaughtering isn't something that bad. I really don't see what is the problem with what I am suggesting. You are gonna have to go to town to complete quests anyway...
"No. It is fine as it is (locked while in combat)" means that you are OK with it as it is, locked while in combat.
"Yes. There should be higher penalties for re-selecting your skills." means that you want it to be changed, and made so that it is harder to switch your selection of skills.
"Yes. The current system is simply not enough GOD-mod" means that you want it to be changed so that it is easier to change between your sets of skills, possibly by starting with all slots unlocked, or having hotkeys for sets of skills.
To the next question:
"Only allowed in town" - Re-selecting is allowed only while in town.
"Bought from a trainer/vendor" - Pay gold to respec
"Locked in certain areas" - The system is the same as now, but while you are in certain areas you cannot respec
"Each respec with a timer" - Each time you respec, you cannot do it again for a short (or long) period of time. Can be slot related (each slot has it's own timer), or bar related (the whole bar is locked for a period of time)
"Other" - None of the above, something else. Feel free to post your suggestion.
-------------------
I don't know if this was suggested...
I just realized that the solution to the respecing can be a town-only rule, that you can only respec in town.
0
Stays like this -> A lot of repecing, possibly after each encounter, or before.
Locked in areas -> Huge pause before entering those areas
Only in town -> Respecing only when near waypoints and before boss fights
Buying a respec -> Even rarer respec, people deciding between REAL money (as gold can be traded for it) and a repec
Generally speaking, if you don't have to go to town for anything but artisans and quests, people would hesitate going to town just to repec, as that will become less of a focus of the game.
If left unchanged, I can see this issue, some might not call it that, becoming the center point of the game, especially in Inferno and Hell.
0
This number was derived from the number of different active skill combinations (7 skill slots and 24 skills per class): 24*23*22*21*20*19*18/(2*3*4*5*6*7) = 346 104
The number that is left when this id divided form the original number is 279936
This number is the number of different rune combinations per skill. At the time there were 7 skill slots, so that's 7 skills.
That number is X to the 7th power
X=6
This means that 6 Runestones were planed.
Now this number is very different:
--------------------------
There are:
24 skills/class
20 passives/class
5 runestones
8 different qualities of runestones
The math:
24*23*22*21*20*19
6*5*4*3*2
number of active skill combinations
5 * 8 + 1
number of different combinations of runes per skill + unruned (if no runes were put into it)
5 different runes * 8 qualities of those runes + unruned
41*41*41*41*41*41 (41^6)
number of different combinations of runes per 6 skills
20*19*18
3*2
number of passive skill combinations
Totaling at:
728 853 334 680 665 040
----------------------------
Recalculated version for less passives:
There are:
24 skills/class
15 passives/class
5 runestones
8 different qualities of runestones
Build combinations: 956 893 437 500 (0,00330/00 of total combinations)
Total combinations:
290 901 988 841 844 380
Barbarian
- Active Skills: 22
- Passive Skills: 15
Number of builds: 530 451 796 875Number of skill combinations: 94 476 058 707 571 778
Demon Hunter
- Active Skills: 23
- Passive Skills: 13
Number of builds: 451 106 906 250Number of skill combinations: 83 836 328 480 574 640
Monk
- Active Skills: 21
- Passive Skills: 13
Number of builds: 242 492 250 000Number of skill combinations: 45 118 631 019 401 728
Witch Doctor
- Active Skills: 22
- Passive Skills: 12
Number of builds: 256 482 187 500Number of skill combinations: 49 042 259 641 604 104
Wizard
- Active Skills: 25
- Passive Skills: 12
Number of builds: 608 781 250 000Number of skill combinations: 116 233 880 268 736 912
It has been taken in account that a build consists of a full Tier 7 Runestone in each of the skills and that all 6 active and 3 passive skills have been selected.
In depth math:
Na - Number of active skills (of class)
Np - Number of passive skills (of class)
[Na!/((Na-6)!*6!)] //*Number of combinations of active skills
[5^6] //*Number of Runestone combinations
[Np!/((Np-3)!*3!)] //*Number of combinations of passive skills
Final:
[Na!/((Na-6)!*6!)]*[5^6]*[Np!/((Np-3)!*3!)]
While a skill combination can consist of any Tier or no Runestone in each of the skills and that any number of active and passive skills have been selected.
Na - Number of active skills (of class)
Np - Number of passive skills (of class)
36 - Number of Runestone combinations (5*7+1)
Combinations of selected active skills and passive skills:
Actives Passives
6 3
5 3
4 3
3 3
2 3
1 3
0 3
Actives Passives
6 2
5 2
4 2
3 2
2 2
1 2
0 2
Actives Passives
6 1
5 1
4 1
3 1
2 1
1 1
0 1
Actives Passives
6 0
5 0
4 0
3 0
2 0
1 0
0 0
Final:
(Np*(Np-1)*(Np-2)/6+Np*(Np-1)/2+Np+1)*(Na*(Na-1)*(Na-2)*(Na-3)*(Na-4)*(Na-5)*(36^6)/720+Na*(Na-1)*(Na-2)*(Na-3)*(Na-4)*(36^5)/120+Na*(Na-1)*(Na-2)*(Na-3)*(36^4)/24+Na*(Na-1)*(Na-2)*(36^3)/6+Na*(Na-1)*(36^2)/2+Na*36+1)
References:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/whats-new
0
0
It is just me or does he look like his left eye is blind?
0
The second question is IF IT WERE TO BE CHANGED, so even if you have answered the previous question No, you can still vote on the second one on what do you think WOULD be the best if they change it.
0
Crimson - What we saw in one of the playthroughs, Zombies stacking up and falling in a row
Indigo - Zombie nova (again, something we saw in a vid)
Obsidian - Charges farther on, dealing less damage.
Gold - Increases damage over time
Alabaster - Knocks back enemies in the way
0
0
0
You have a point there. But from the point of simple math, the current system is definitively not something that Blizzard nor I would agree with. This solution is something that could work (for me and Blizzard), as it is, in my opinion, the simplest. What could be the other?
Maybe this could be turned into a discussion about the best possible way to solve this problem.
So far I can think of these:
- The above (only in town)
- Putting a timer on in
- Being locked while in combat (similar to Stone of Recall)
- Being locked while in certain areas
- Buying a respec (like in WoW)
Thoughts?
0
I am aware that Blizzard doesn't want you to go back to town, and so they have made all these systems to keep you in action, and penalties if you do go back. But, if left unchanged, the skills will become boring, and the game in the process, because if you can respec on-the-fly, it takes all the fun out of the skills you have chosen. If you can change the set you have every 5 minutes or even worse, after every encounter, they might as well let you have 30 skill slots from the start.
I played D&D, and choosing skills before you go slaughtering isn't something that bad. I really don't see what is the problem with what I am suggesting. You are gonna have to go to town to complete quests anyway...
0
Answers explained:
"No. It is fine as it is (locked while in combat)" means that you are OK with it as it is, locked while in combat.
"Yes. There should be higher penalties for re-selecting your skills." means that you want it to be changed, and made so that it is harder to switch your selection of skills.
"Yes. The current system is simply not enough GOD-mod" means that you want it to be changed so that it is easier to change between your sets of skills, possibly by starting with all slots unlocked, or having hotkeys for sets of skills.
To the next question:
"Only allowed in town" - Re-selecting is allowed only while in town.
"Bought from a trainer/vendor" - Pay gold to respec
"Locked in certain areas" - The system is the same as now, but while you are in certain areas you cannot respec
"Each respec with a timer" - Each time you respec, you cannot do it again for a short (or long) period of time. Can be slot related (each slot has it's own timer), or bar related (the whole bar is locked for a period of time)
"Other" - None of the above, something else. Feel free to post your suggestion.
-------------------
I don't know if this was suggested...
I just realized that the solution to the respecing can be a town-only rule, that you can only respec in town.
Thoughts?
0
Yeah baby, yeah