DiabloFans

I'm just telling you why it shouldn't be considered a legit esport, not why the ranking system doesn't work. I'm pointing at wow and its short and declining life as an esport to make that point. The part about buying power wasn't an underlying point, it was just to show that power wasn't even necessarily a time investment, as if that should be a requirement for something to be an esport in the first place...

In wow tournaments they give you premade characters and allow you to use various items of your choosing so that power isn't a factor. Despite this FOTM (flavor of the month, or overpowering class-compositions) always exists unless it's a mirror match, and even if it is you can still lose to people of lesser skill through the process of Random Number Generation as I detailed in the post above.

Was also suggesting that arena and pvp will recieve record low balancing from blizzard because they don't want the game to become an esport, specifically pointed out during a blizzcon. They don't want to do the work and make the "sacrifices" involved in order to make it happen. So it wouldn't even be nearly as balanced as wow from the get go.

I have no problem if blizzard allows people to organize private pvp matches (and thus the creation of community based tournaments) and people make up their own rules or lack thereof, in fact I hope this is the case, but I'm simply detailing a few points as to why d3 will not become an esport.

I agree with slayer, a lot of people will always default to pvp when the content is cleared regardless of whether or not the reverse is true, that much is true. This gives them time to work in more pvp into either the arena or as polled in this topic (and received 2 to 1) adding it to private games. Most people who bother playing to 60 once will bother playing to 60 on additional characters as well, for them that is the additional content. It's after that (and the clearing of inferno) when pvp interested players will begin to quit if there is no dueling/private pvp match creation etc in the works.

^I hope you are right. Given the fact that we are being promised an arena perhaps adding more arena functionality for those interested in different forms/modes of pvp would be the best way to go, especially since anything else tends to freak a bunch of people out because it breaks the mental bubble of pvp and pvm existing in two different worlds even if the road to doing so leads to the same result.

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So long as you have power in a game it should not become an esport. Not only are they going to spend minimal amounts of time on d3 pvp balance in general, having 5+ classes with broken gear earned from credit card and killing monsters is not a good platform for competitive play.

I'm all for more pvp functionality in d3 but I'll keep playing sc2 if I want to play a game capable and worthy of being an esport.

You can buy league placement in sc2 if you know where to look (not 1v1 obv) you can buy "perceived" power in any game.

I beat noobs all the time in games that have way better gear than me. Gear only takes you so far my friend.

Power and imbalance (like fotm) can still take you at least that far. It's an innate advantage before combat even begins, whether you're able to make use of it or not and regardless of the extent you're able to do so. I have beaten better equipped players many times, but I have also lost arena matches I had no business losing because I was in greens and the guys in the other pin were in gear which could just facetank me for a minute and kill me in a second.

It only takes you so far, but if you ask me it's no paper thin margin in an RPG. Gear also causes other complications for pvp such as RNG, it's hard to take it seriously when two people are on opposite sides of the same coin (in a mirror match with the same exact skill and gear for instance) but one guy is landing crit after crit after crit while the other keeps on getting dodged and parried and hitting for normal minimum damage.

I don't see why there's an issue. If you were really only using 1 or 2 items for MF then it wouldn't be a large difference to begin with being my first point, and the second being if you are playing with friends they're more likely to find things for you also, and also opens up the potential of having someone lag behind in safety carrying unreal amounts of MF while supporting the team if they so desired being my second and third points.

If the system were different than it is now, that'd just be one more reason for me to never consider playing in public quests, as if I needed yet another reason. That being my fourth point.

Quote from ecutruin

Diablo 1-2 did work alright for its time. Unfortunately that was 12~ years ago. Games and gaming has evolved, you obviously have not evolved with it. Honestly, I'm quite confident that the average player wouldn't want to play with you at all... so I think Blizzard is doing the right thing reducing the incentives for more gamers like yourself. ^-^

What like starcraft2, WoW, and other Blizzard-released games in this time period you mention? Players like us exist in communities like this for the express reason that all the blizz games leading up to this point have had and grown the player vs player community. We are the minority without feeling like the minority, because we are the "hardcore" who want a challenge and we know blizzard's pvm game by now. Out gear the opponent, beat the script gimmick a couple of times and it's yours to faceroll in the future. Then what, farm gear for the sake of having better gear? That's cool but it gets old, and so we quit and go to a different game which has infinite replayability for our liking.

Anyone who has played the beta a lot, and quit or took serious time away because there was no point to continue playing for better itmes and there was nothing new to experience should understand what I'm talking about.

The sad thing is, *like in this topic, I have made (2) topics with ideas taken even from across the isle so that the "PvM Player"'s experience will be left alone and people started arguing about resources and even turned on their own ideas for sad reasons like "people are too stupid/greedy, they will just want more and then ruin other people's experience in the end" (more or less), and for the simple sake of arguing then start playing social f'cking politics acting like victims of verbal-hostility when they finally egg people on too far while being uncompromisable just wasting the time of people who are actually trying to get something accomplished in the only place on the forums where that type of talk belongs, in the PvP forums.

With that said this thread is different. This thread is going nowhere and had no chance even from the first post because of the topic title containing "vs". Upon reading the title people came into this thread, ignored the OP for the most part, and started geting angry and declaring what side they were on, seeking out like-minded player's attention. I think you have a lot of good points, but they are being ignored by most of the people posting here, as usual.

Also I'd gladly play with or against someone like adon or vlad. The only things that kept wow and d2 charming for me WAS the open world hostility environment. I'm not suggesting that happen in open public games for d3, but I was a part of that pvp community where the mentality is basically "what's up" not "my gear score is so high I killed a dragon". I'd like to note that I vaguely remember playing against them a decade ago in d2 when I was a lot more childish and quick to anger, and despite that and because of it I'd much rather play with them than someone who can't handle having their manhood questioned.

And to wrap it up let me say this. The public queue system creates assholes as bad as the griefers I hear about so often, they are basically closet-griefers. Why? Because there is no real consequence for skrewing around with people or not carrying your weight etc. What are they going to do, kick you out of a game if they notice you're not playing to their liking? There's nothing to stop people from being self-proclaimed elitist prick "bullies" either, or joining up with 2 friends and just griefing people out of games once the kick feature is added. Back when wow was a same-server community you had to be nice to people and earn people's respect. There were rivalries like nothing that exists today even in the arena over battlegrounds and territorial disputes and guilds. But what happened when they added cross server and later added pick up group queues cross server? The communities died and everyone became something of an asshat. You didn't need to be well liked, you just need to click a button and you're in. Your gear not good enough from a quick inspection, see ya later. Also the content got dumbed down enough, even the end game content, so that it was puggable by a group of completely random players. Back in vanilla and in TBC raiding was freaking hard, but carried soooooo much more gratification when you finally triumphed. That's gone now. The game is a joke in every aspect. You aren't being social by queuing into public quests, you're just looking for things to move around your screen like pets independent from you and hoping for a quick clear for exp and a bunch of convenient, easy to get loot (not too different from the queue system in wow nowadays). Are you seriously going to drop that epic chest piece you found to some complete random kid who's jerking off in the game? No, you're going to save it for someone worth your time or sell it yourself. With that said Diablo is not wow, but the fact remains that there is no real noteworthy consequence for being an ahole in d3 all the same, and I expect nothing more from the people playing in public games together. People ninja'd crap all the time in wow, and you could even roll on it and see every little thing that dropped. 999/1000 times people are going to keep anything of value they find themselves. If you were playing with actual friends however, it'd be a different story.

So long as you have power in a game it should not become an esport. Not only are they going to spend minimal amounts of time on d3 pvp balance in general, having 5+ classes with broken gear earned from credit card and killing monsters is not a good platform for competitive play.

I'm all for more pvp functionality in d3 but I'll keep playing sc2 if I want to play a game capable and worthy of being an esport.

At least you will avoid the first couple days of mayhem that generally come with launch. Let's just choose to think that way even if it isn't true. >:] I had a hefty BB giftcard sitting around and bought through them as well, the game could ship *up to* an entire week late.

What I want to know is how many times the servers will crash or be brought down during the first week xD.

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Actually, I love the big frog, don't ask me why...



Interesting spotlight, anyway.

I'm right there with you. Everything else was cool, but a giant toad for crowd control? Priceless.

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I said a prayer last night that the cow level would exist in d3.

Don't worry, there will be. One of the starting game tips says, rather sarcastically 'There is no secret cow level'. Which blatently means
there is... a secret unicorn level.

neooooooooo!

Here come the pet builds!

I said a prayer last night that the cow level would exist in d3.

This might be a good time to point out that all we've been promised thus far is a bare bones arena system with no additional utility beyond its 3v3 function.

I don't really care what other people have complained about. I've made polls about ideas for change whether be an idea of my own making or someone else's. I'm also fine with more features being added to arena to the same effect as you well know. With that said, this could also work and it wouldn't ruin anyone's gameplay experience just the same. All those votes for either hostility and duels could have been simply hostility, seeing as how hostility is just another way to duel to the death, but it also shows people are still enthusiastic about pvp and will take whatever they can get.

The way I see it, they are basically two ways of going about the same thing. PvP doesn't always have to be instanced to be done right, as private games are instances in themselves and particular to games like diablo and not typical modern mmorpg's. I just don't think it's right for you to flip flop on your own idea because you started to believe it might trick more players into asking for a griefing system in the oh so precious public quest system (which after everything I have read on these forums, I probably will rarely ever venture into.)