DiabloFans

It sounds like you didn't even read my reasoning for WHY blizzard is trying to defer bosses from being a viable source of loot Seluhir.

Bosses are not random, bosses are very static and very specific. It would be a lot easier to make a character tailor suited to take down a specific boss repeatedly. You wouldn’t have to have a flexible character and because of this it would be *better* to just farm bosses as the kill consistency would be higher. This is the primary reason Blizzard is trying to deter boss runs as part of the loot grinding game.

It just feels like the current model is going to make the boss highly anticlimactic

Actually it's quite the opposite. Again, as I said before, the first time boss kills are BY FAR the best source of loot making the quest kill (the only one you are forced to do through story progression) very climactic in regards to loot dropping. If you choose to kill a boss again when you don't have to, the loot drop is adjusted accordingly.

I totally understand the desire to have the most badass fights be the best place to get loot, but it's actually not in the best interest of the game for it to be that way.

Good conversation! I wanted to pipe in with a few thoughts

So I’ve seen a few people claim how they want Bosses to be viable drop sources (given either even or slightly better drop chances, but not worse). I *was* of the same mindset as I thought bosses should be viable to farm if people want, but they should be comparable sources to Rares/Champions, NOT superior (otherwise we’d only get boss runs). However Blizzard recently explained why they want to deter people from farming bosses and their explanation makes a lot of sense that I was convinced. So one thing you have to understand is that Rare spawns are Random. They have random properties and random abilities so if you plan on farming them you have to have a character flexible enough to deal with all types of random champions. Bosses are not random, bosses are very static and very specific. It would be a lot easier to make a character tailor suited to take down a specific boss repeatedly. You wouldn’t have to have a flexible character and because of this it would be *better* to just farm bosses as the kill consistency would be higher. This is the primary reason Blizzard is trying to deter boss runs as part of the loot grinding game. Knowing this I agree with giving bosses a smaller chance than Champions. This means if you really want to farm bosses for loot you can, but because it can be done a lot easier than random champions, you get less for it.

Just imagine if the best loot came from bosses like the ancients or the council (Act 3). Doing hell ancients repeatedly would be torture (And a sure fire way to get a lot of HC characters killed). I’m hoping Rare Champs come in groups in Inferno

If D2 loot finding worked like D3 where would be some ideal places to MF? I’m looking at the forgotten Tower with the Countess at the end to boot! That place is CHALK full of rare champs!

And lastly according to the Beta yes, first Boss kills provide increased drop chances (Currently the only real way to get rare items consistently is killing the Leoric on a new character). I personally like this as it is a small reward for questing through the game the first time and you can’t really farm items this way. The except is if it’s easy enough to power level and if drop rates are THAT much higher D3 runs the risk of turning D2 Forge runs into D3 Inferno boss runs (power leveling a level 60 just for the first kill loot in inferno). I seriously doubt the drop rates and time to power level would make that viable, but you never know.

99.9999% of the people who put 'yes' will immediately have the entirety of their interest returned the second the game is available for download.

Yup!

and then they play games by releasing a Demo, but calling it a beta, which there Isn't a single aspect about this Demo that should lead people to think It's a beta(also it sickens me that people actually stick up for Blizzard, even when they pull **** like this. Whoever thinks this is a beta, should apply for a job at Blizzard, I'm sure they are looking for people to stroke their ego).

Oh so ignorant....

And my interest in D3 isn't going, my interest in keeping tabs on it up until launch has completely disappeared though

You guys whine about Blizzard doing things the way they ALWAYS do things. It's quite baffling...

I did this last week (And posted in the Blizzcon schedule thread) when the app was announced (and when I thought a non-app schedule was going to be going up by Blizzard in a day or two). Without that having been put up with only a week before Blizzcon I decided to update it to make it look actually finished. For those of you interested in the Blizzcon schedule who haven't looked at it yet here you go!

http://i.imgur.com/DEFcD.jpg

A TRUE Beta ..."the expectations" based on prior Blizzard betas were that we will have a SCII/WoW like beta. They didn't have TRUE betas for WoW and SCII ?

Yo, can you link me the definition for "TRUE Beta"? I guess I've totally had it wrong this entire time!

Their investor meetings and other blue posts and such said that they will try for a 2011 release

You know what else we knew from those investor meetings? ActiviisionBlizzard was never counting on or expecting a 2011 release date for Diablo 3, but what the hell do the their executives know....

DarkPhenomenon said:
Fans are extremely dumb

Are you a fan ?

I am a fan, however after this statement I defined the fan idiocy. Those who fall into the below categories (ie the author of the linked article) I consider dumb (which isn’t a category I fall into)

DarkPhenomenon said:
They create their own expectations, schedules and hype despite Blizzard telling us exactly what they are doing and that the expectations fans create ourselves are wrong.

Wrong, expectations were build upon Blizzard's press releases and hype.

What exact expectations? Blizzard press releases announced things like the Beta and the existence of D3. The only expectations those announcements created were for the release of said Beta and the eventual release of Diablo 3. You’re going to have to be a lot more specific if you expect to actually debate this and hold your ground. I’ve already given specific examples and all you can do is tell me I’m wrong without actually explaining why.

DarkPhenomenon said:
Then Blizzard fails to meet the expectations the fans created (the ones Blizzard said they would never meet in the first place) and then the fans bitch at Blizzard for it (ie this linked article).

Blizzard failed their own forecast and expectations so fans have the right to bitch as much as they want as a result.

Forecast? What forecast? EVERY TIME a release date question has come up, it’s ALWAYS been “It’ll be out when it’s done” THAT is their forcast and it’s never changed. Yes, they’ve constantly said they are *trying* to get it out this year. They wanted to get it out in 2011 but have ALWAYS had the caveat that they don’t know if that’s doable. At least they told us 3 months before the end of the year instead of at the end of the year. And, by the way, another expectation a large chunk of the community set for themselves was Christmas 2011. Now that they’ve been proven wrong, (something I’ve known was going to happen for a long time http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27797299614&sid=3000), they are upset about it.

A VERY large tip-off that the community should have picked up on (but didn’t because they are blind to everything else while clinging to any shred of indication that D3 will be out sooner than later), was that ActivisionBlizzard EXCLUDED Diablo 3 from their fiscal forecasts. If the company that OWNS Blizzard isn’t banking on D3 coming out this year, it’s a pretty good sign D3 isn’t coming out this year.

DarkPhenomenon said:
Blizzard has been saying for a long time now
Beta is for network and compatibility testing
They have ALWAYS been saying they don't know if it will come out this year
They told us a long ass time ago that the Beta would last about 6 months.

I think you didn't read the Diablo 3 Beta FAQ:
What are your goals for this beta?

The primary reason for the Diablo III beta test is for us to test out our new hardware, see how the server–client infrastructure holds up, and look for bugs in the installer and patcher as well as the game. We’re also looking to get some quality feedback about the beginning game experience and how the different classes feel. The beta test will help us ensure that the release is stable and fun, and that we’re ultimately able to deliver the experience we intend with Diablo III.

So? All’s this proves is what I said was right. Sure, add bug finding to the list (although it’s not the Beta’s primary purpose which I’m about to prove). Here, let me throw in a few more Blizzard Beta quotes in regards to the Beta Expectation Blizzard was trying to set..

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822633369&postId=278201096253&sid=3000#6

We're preparing ourselves for an extremely limited, and extremely rough beta. The number of people let in will simply be dependent on concurrency of active players (we want to keep it full), and rough because we expect many issues as we're trying out a lot of new hardware and systems all at the same time. We'll get it ironed out before release of course, but while most of our other game tests have been of seemingly releasable products, we're preparing for this one to be a true beta.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822632463&postId=278201086524&sid=3000#7

We're testing client and server stability. We want to make sure the game is running, and running well, on a wide range of systems, and the server infrastructure that runs Diablo III is completely new, so we need testing on that front as well. Quite right, we're not necessarily looking for gameplay related testing, although we do hope to see feedback on the various systems and see what people like/don't like from the first few hours of play time.

Oh, what’s that say in bold? I can’t quite read it…

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822632463&postId=278201086536&sid=3000#10

Because we're starting with essentially a 'single' server to test the system out, and so it's necessary to keep it full, but not overflowing. To do that we carefully monitor concurrency and then hand out extra keys when/if it dips.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822632463&postId=278201086592&sid=3000#24

To clarify further, there's no universal "bnet2" server blade and we just install different games on it. The service Diablo III will run on is completely untested, which is the top reason for the beta, followed closely by personal system testing, patching systems (also new), and gameplay feedback.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822632463&postId=278201086563&sid=3000#17

We have a huge and talented QA department just for purposes like these, yes, but it's still no comparison to thousands and thousands of players hammering the system. We can run simulations to see what breaks just from over-crowding, but it's ultimately no comparison to real players testing the system.

But we also do want player feedback on systems and how the game feels and plays for the content that's available. The first few hours are the most crucial for any game, so we definitely want to make sure we get them right.

This will be the most limited beta in recent memory, and because of of how new the back end is, we expect it to be the most unstable as well.

I don’t know about you, but the communication from Blizzard seems pretty damn clear and consistent about the purpose and expectation of the Beta test, (and if you’ve been around this site for a while I can guarantee you Diablofans has reported all of the above information). And lastly, here’s a nice little snippet of Blizzard nipping incorrect expectations of the 1,000,000 facebook likes in the bud (Which also angered people, go figure)

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27807930529&postId=278054080629&sid=3000#7

Nah. We have something cool lined up, but it's along the lines of the visuals we've released so far. Nothing earth shattering, but something cool to celebrate the milestone.

DarkPhenomenon said:
Quite frankly the Diablo community in general is a whiney, bitchy,self-entitled mass of children.

Are you part of the community ?

I am, but I’m not whining to Blizzard, nor do I think I’m entitled to a D3 this year nor a Beta invite (you know, all the stuff I already talked about?)

To answer the initial question: YES. Blizzard is getting it wrong, from the beta release on the SWTOR week-end beta announcement to the delay to 2012.

It’s not a delay, the release date is, and has always been… When it’s done. It’s not gunna be done in 2011 so it’s not coming out in 2011. All’s they announced is a date they can’t make, a date they have told everyone many times they weren’t even sure if they could make in the first place.

How exactly did they get the Beta release wrong? I’m looking for specific examples you can defend (And that I can respond to).

how badly I feel I've been treated as a consumer

And how exactly have you been treated badly as a consumer? Because you didn't get into the beta? Because the beta you got into that cost you nothing only came with an hour of content? Because Blizzard isn't going to release the game this year?

I'd REALLY love to know Blizzard has actually treated you badly as a consumer...

The topic *is* trivial. I don't follow Apple so I can't comment on your comparison, but the only real experience I had with Apple was some forced update to my 3G that now makes it run like molasses (And they never communicated THAT to me).

It's not going to matter, the crap all the fans are whining about right now isn't going to affect D3 sales in the slightest, it'll sell millions of copies and everyone will love it. They just don't have it now so they need to complain.

Fans are extremely dumb

They create their own expectations, schedules and hype despite Blizzard telling us exactly what they are doing and that the expectations fans create ourselves are wrong.

Then Blizzard fails to meet the expectations the fans created (the ones Blizzard said they would never meet in the first place) and then the fans bitch at Blizzard for it (ie this linked article).

Blizzard has been saying for a long time now

• Beta is for network and compatibility testing
• They have ALWAYS been saying they don't know if it will come out this year
• They told us a long ass time ago that the Beta would last about 6 months.

Fans took it upon themselves to disbelieve the above expectations Blizzard has constantly set and then bitch and whine about it.

Quite frankly the Diablo community in general is a whiney, bitchy,self-entitled mass of children.

They have plenty of time to get rid of all the bugs, iteration and tinkering with a game constantly will add bugs. This game is in really good shape from being at least 3 months away from release (And that's coming from someone who's been working in game QA for the past decade)

You lose, 1210 Killstreak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRcqebcp5M

Then they aren't as skilled as I thought, shame I thought they were better developers then that.

Yea they're pretty damn terrible!

I completely agree, Blizzard didn't even try.

Actually they did, they tried for a long time to make them work