DiabloFans

Quote from deckardcain85

Anti-social AH solution? Oh i'm sorry. I'm sure all the adults want to have to deal with the 12 y/o kids/scammers/basement dwellers who are rejoicing the changes so they can go back to d2 system.It does make total sense, indeed.

So 0-4 year olds were playing D2 and scamming people? You do know the bulk of people who played D2 are now in their 20's to 30’s and likely don't live in their parents basement anymore... just saying.

Quote from deckardcain85

Only thing that the AH removal is good for is the fact that AH bots + exploiters (0 bid) are getting the boot.

Yes because that’s so terrible… possibly the main reason for inflation.

Quote from deckardcain85

And yeah thanks for mentioning top items are already being traded outside of the RMAH, (i totally did not know that). Point is he AH was a safe environment that allowed you to actually play the game, sell your stuff while playing the game and also buy stuff really fast without wasting time with the majority of the game's playerbase who does fall into the category i mentioned earlier. Which i and many other intelligent folk don't want to deal with directly.

Quote from deckardcain85

2) How am i the 12 y/o or basement dweller when i actually used the AH for what purpose it actually had? Which is selling and buying fast so i don't have to waste my time trading and i can continue to enjoy the actual game?

Only people who will benefit from this change are indeed the scammers/and people with too much time on their hands.

But it's good to see which side of the fence you're on. Sucks for me i got a job and a life i guess.

Saying shit like this leads me to believe you didn’t play D2 or if you did it was past its prime. In theory the AH was a good idea to combat issues from D2; however since it was linked to loot drops it turned the entire system into a steaming pile of mud butt shit.
Hardly anyone used 3^rd party sites and trading in D2 wasn’t necessary (self-found gear was possible). Trade only existed to obtain perfect items or for people who like to haggle. I think I traded maybe a handful of times to get rid of excess uniques sitting in my stash.

Since you’re the pay to win type you’ll just have to do it with 3^rd party sites oh noes!!!

Quote from deckardcain85

@Cantor Can you actually try and make sense?

His name is Elendiro. Think you would have figured out by now how to communicate properly within the forum (referring to your 64 posts).

Quote from deckardcain85

You're not as bright as you like to think, let's just leave it at that.

Yah you just bring a whole big bag of awesome to this place. I feel that humanity has been blessed with your contributions, we are not worthy.

Back to topic… I find it funny the amount of rage that has happened from an offline mode, and then again I guess a lot of people never experienced D2 for what it was.

cat math = 2014 Q2.... you know how I got that? Who cares it's pointless speculation, meow.

Quote from Indimix

I hope I'm wrong.

Me too, I can't stand 750 of your posts. A change of attitude would be nice.

Quote from Bandyto

According to the skill Critical Mass:

Back in Diablo II, every class had at least one skill which was chosen by almost every player; e.g. at least one point into Warmth (Sorc), Amplify Damage (Necro), Holy Shield (Pala), Weapon Mastery (Barb), Critical Strike (Ama) etc. Nevertheless the players build different characters because the skills were quite balanced. I do not claim that everything was balanced perfectly but I did not feel much weaker compared to other builds of the chosen class; e.g. Orb-Sorc vs. CL-Sorc vs. Meteor-Sorc. Admittedly, there were immunities and therefore not every build suitable for specific areas but in Diablo III I feel much weaker if I swap Energy Twister for Arcane Orb or Disintegrate for instance.

Because of this I do not think that Critical Mass is the problem. The other active respectively passive skills are the problem and should be adjusted but hopefully not out of proportion to other skills and other classes (see Rend).

That's a good point, but those "generally accepted must have abilities" only give extra % to damage/defense/resource regen. Warmth was helpful but it didn't give you infinite mana back in D2.

CM and APoC offer infinite resources or 0 second CD's in a game based on CD & resource management combat. In contrast the other classes mainly have the ability for infinte resources but it requires more slots and gear to achieve. Only the WD (other than the Wiz) has the ability to reduce CD's but it's no where near the ability of a Wiz.

If Blizzard wants to establish that wizards are supposed to have the easiest resource/CD management in contrast to the other classes that's fine, but it needs to be balanced in comparison to the other classes strengths (ignoring barbs ATM).

Quote from ruksak

Quote from maka

Quote from ruksak

Second.

I'd respond further but I think it's time to go "afk" again.

Stop hogging it all and pass this shit to the left!

Bleu42 basically hit the main points.

Out of all the classes I feel DH is the weakest even if you aim for perma gloom as the damage doesn't compare to the other classes. Every now and then it’s nice to switch to a DH for a refreshing "approach" to ranged compared to a Wiz (WD is more hybrid) but feels like a poor attempt from the Amazon class in D2 (being my second favourite class in D2).

I think in comparison to the other classes (ignoring the fact you need gloom in every build) the DH has more options for "builds", the issue as Bleu said is they all need some buffing or reduction in resource cost to make them efficient.

I've been away from the game and the forum for a couple of months. The fact I played for five months straight and still somewhat maintain interest is pretty damn good for games these days. Every Diablo release has been rough and overall they are doing a decent job of "addressing" issues. I agree with many points from different people in the thread but overall there are still a few key points that nobody has an answer to.

We were let down, they were MANY functions of this game there were cut out and never made it to release and yet it’s over seven months now and many of these things have not made it to the game. Litheum has many valid points showing that yes Blizzard "listens" and adds content and feature for things we've been wanting since pre-release and they give a half ass band-aid.

I've played every Diablo since D1 first came out, I'd say this is the longest I've played without taking a break from the release (ignore D1 since I was a kid and had unlimited time to play video games), but there are a few key components that can never be fixed unless a massive revamp happens, e.g. expansion or Diablo 4. I'm not sure I'm willing to spend my money on those products.

I've posted many pointless rants here and been an avid defender of D3. Overall it's a great game that has improved on many aspects from D2, but I find it funny that the game became more interesting or pleased more fans when they updated it with D2 ideas and content.

I can still go back and play D1 or D2, albeit not for more than a day or two but I still have fun when I do. Every time I log back into D3, I get bored right away. I can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't feel like Diablo. There are many threads, opinions, and flames about why this situation does or does not exist and I'm not going to bother stating them. The point is we expected more, Blizzard cut out many features that probably won't come out till an expansion, and I'm an older gamer who can't find games that hold up to my nostalgia of playing some amazing games at an influential age.

TLDR;
The curse of aging and changes of the gamer community makes me a sad panda. This patch does not offer anything interesting nor does it address features I was promised before release.

Then don't party up with people and farm by your self since it's such a burden. How about we introduce a new feature, 100% chance a everything, you get all the loot without the grind, let me know how much faster you'll get bored with the game. Children these days piss me off... but but but what about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Quote from kanzaki_urumi

I wish strong petitions could emerge or something. And why isn't Diablofans (this website yes) organizing something ?

Well, idiots for me are not gonna be idiots for you and humans will never perceive, be on par as well as understand each others. Human nature.

As it stands right now, intelligent people will perceive things exactly as OP does. Period.

butthurt will be butthurt, your "statement" is nothing but insulting other people get over your self. Why don't you start a petition of WTF Blizzard you owe me, go ahead do it, I'm sure it will do well. fsakes.

If I have to add anything to the topic I'm sure I could find something stated from 50000000 other threads so I'll leave it at this:

Quit playing if life sucks so bad, and if you have quit and are here being bitter seriously find something else to do with your life, how about tying a rope around your penis and jump from a bridge.... nerd rage is entertaining.

because you touch your self at night and its naughty

My quote says its the most restrictive version of skills in the Diablo universe. This a true statement. Diablo 1, all skill books could be learned by all classes. In d2, you have set trees, and it was physically impossible to have some skills be effective at the same time. Not only that, we only used a couple skills at sametime if at all. Many builds were 1 skill builds. They took the freedom of diablo 1 and put all kinds of lame rules on skills. You couldn't use a good feral druid skill with a good elemental druid skill. One or the other always suffered. They tried to fix it but never did. D3 we have set skills for each class, but we can use any combo of those skills we desire and have the most effective version of those skill all at the same time. Not all skill combos are as effective as some, but thats ok. Its not like i have to choose a half done skill and a fully applied skill to make a character. There were so many possible builds that were never allowed to happen and I always felt let down when I tried hybrid a character.

The thing about D2, is it was best after it was out a couple months and a few of the dupes and bugs were fixed. But the game was heavily flawed. They continuely tried to fix it, only making it worse at each time. The first year of LoD was probably the prime for most people. When they made the enigma patch, don't remember the number of that patch, they ruined the game for me. For most people though, that was the patch they liked the most. Don't know why though, it ruined the community and the exploration of the game. Every game became Baal bot tele's to Baal, sends portal, everyone goes in. Baal bot kills baal. Baal bot and a few of the other players run "pick it" program so legit players are left with isenharts case. In the end though, your build and your gear didn't matter because you didn't have to do a damn thing but stand in a corner. They finally threw their hands in the air and came up with ladder seasons because the game was so broken. Ladder season were meant for a fresh start and to get rid of all the old duped and hacked gear. What they became was a bot race to 99 and a money making endeavor for the bots/hackers because a new economy meant they would have all the best gear the quickest. Bots and hackers completely controlled the ladder economies. The duped and hacked gear would show up in ladders too. So in the end, ladders did nothing to solve the problems it was meant to solve, it actually made those problems worse. Not only that, I really don't like grinding chars up again everytime a new season started. I suppose thats why in the only 2 ladder seasons I played, I quit bnet each time after the ladder season was over. The fact that ladders had exclusive content really angered me to be honest. I took one 3year break from D2 but other than that, I have always played D2 from Day 1 when the servers lagged out the whole day up to when I got a D3 beta invite. I just learned to stay off bnet because the game was too broken to play with others. Your last statement about choices is passive aggressive and you obviously feel you are a better player than me. Nothing I will say is gonna convince you any other way, no matter how many times I show D2 was a broken game with a broken skill system. Even with its faults, D2 was a great game. But there is no way I would play that game again now nor do I want some of its worst features, like the skill tree replacing the current skill format. I wouldn't mind to see choices with trees that add to skills we already have in an end game capacity but are still easily reversable.

To me, D3 is infinitely better in its current form. D3 actually continues to improve with every update. I think the future is bright for D3. I believe the new director and the team is taking the game in a better direction than Jay Wilson did. Nothing stays the same and change happens, we have to learn to accept it. Game mechanics that worked well enough 13 years ago have been able to be studied and defeated by gamers already. We need new challenges, not the same tired old systems.

Being as my first and 'main' class is a DH, I felt I should chime in.

It's exactly as you state; So-so. The buffed rapid fire is awesome, but that and spike trap are the only 'good' spenders. Every other spender is under mediocre. Take impale. The premise of having a super high single target dps skill that costs a lot is cool. Instead we get a single target skill that costs 1/5th our resource and barely does more than 2 hungering arrows.

Chakram's a cool idea, but 3/5 runes are next to worthless. The ability stops as soon as you hit a wall, which makes it not worth using most of the game.

Fan of Knives for some odd reason has a 10 second CD, causing me to never use this skill after testing it out. It's a good AOE at 320% and causes a slow, but I'd rather it have no CD and just do damage. 10 seconds is forever.

Strafe. I have no idea why it was designed to spread out the damage the more mobs there are. Maybe it was to make it less like the Barbarian's WW, I'm not sure. All I know is you get more than a couple mobs, and the damage is extremely low. I'd have more fun if it just did it's damage as a constant AOE of arrows no matter the amount of enemies.

Multishot. Huge cost for the damage. A quarter of our hatred for only 165%? Bola shot is a better AOE by far, and it's free.

Cluster Arrow. Another skill designed to be a giant spender / damage dealer. Instead, it costs almost half of our resource, and does less damage than impale, albeit with a tiny AOE. Those grenades that explode after impact? Awesome idea, that would really ramp up the damage! Unfortunately those awesome grenades bounce JUST out of reach of the main target, every time. Because of how spread out they are, champ packs will only get hit by one, if any.


Anyway, I made a whole thread awhile back on what I would change / add to the Demon Hunter class. Pretty much it boils down to the DH has great ideas, but it's spenders are weak, and it's lacking any real self buffs, defensive and offensive. It's a really fun class but it also feels like it needs some work.

Diablo II LOD: released on 6/27/01 - The summer before my seinor year in college.

Diablo 3: release on 5/15/12 - My wife is pregnant with our first son.

What does this mean?

Absolutey Nothing !

Quote from Indimix

AFAIK, 120 seconds is 2 mins. Sure, there is a rune that reduces it to 90 but, and sure, they last 20 seconds, so one could say that the effective CD is 100 seconds, still, the CD is 2 mins. Am I missing something dear shaggy?.

Well, first off, in your ranting and raving, you never mentioned there is a rune to cut 30s off the CD. Given how big of a hardon you had for the fact that it was a 2m CD, you'd think you'd mention that.

In addition to Devoted Following, however, there are two passives which also reduce the cooldown: Tribal Rites (a flat 25%) and Grave Injustice (1s per enemy killed within your pickup radius + 8).

Most WDs in the post-1.0.8 world probably wouldn't bother with a 2m CD without GI. Monster density has improved to the point that BBV is almost always a sub-60s CD for me. Sometimes I've had it that the CD is up before the 20s duration is up.

Sure someone could take Fetish Army or BBV without GI, but that would be a pretty silly decision. It's a decision you're free to make, but there's precious little reason to given the new monster density and the massive opportunity to make GI give a massive buff to stuff like BBV.

I fully understand that you cannot quantify GI, btw. But it deserves mentioning in this rant against Fetish Army. If the effective CD on Fetish Army is closer to 60s that does change the color of the discussion. I'm pretty sure you don't really want that, though.

Now if you wanted to talk about Fetish Army needing a buff.... I'd be completely on board with you (because it should be buffed, it's a very underwhelming ability... I prefer BBV any day of the week). But I simply don't buy that Fetish Army was ever intended to "replace" a horde of 25 skeletons from D2. I'm pretty sure that Blizzard decided they didn't want the game to crash if ever 2+ WDs ended up in the same game. And I know for a fact that Blizzard said they didn't want summons doing all the work for you. You're yearning for a feature that we'll never see because they want us to play the game, they don't want 30+ summons playing it for us.... unless we outgear something, I guess.

EDIT
What you're asking for - a direct replacement for Necro summon armies - just isn't going to happen. It'd be like asking for Enigma to be put into D3. You're not going to get them to carry over things from D2 which were obviously OP and which were easily abused. It's just not going to happen. If you want WDs to get some kind of "many but weak" summons then you're going to need to focus on why it's not cruise control for EZ mode and make that argument (because it's the only way Blizzard would go along with it). Trashing Fetish Army isn't going to produce the result you want.

-----
I think that a "let's make Fetish Army not suck" discussion is very needed. I just don't think it should be framed as a "let's make Fetish Army replace D2s Summon Skeleton." If you'd like to know the things about Fetish Army that I believe need to be fixed for it to be a reasonable, and useful, part of the WD repitoire... here goes (in no particular order):

• Reduce the base CD to 90s.
• Change Devoted Following to summon 50% of the fetishes but allow them to do 300% normal damage (20% becomes 60%). This would be for people who want less of the "distraction" aspect and more of the damage aspect.
• Improve the AI such that they get on a target quickly and stay on it - the running around is an issue with this ability (and Fetish Syncopants).
• Remove the "summon more of X type" runes. They're... err... not working out well. Replace with ONE "summon 1 more of each fetish type" rune. This would satisfy people who are aiming more for the distraction aspect of this ability.
• Add a rune that increases the duration of the fetishes to 30s.
• Make it such that the fetishes don't routinely die to damage. They're a CD damnit, they shouldn't be immortal, but they shouldn't have massive survivability issues.
• Buff the base damage of each fetish. They currently seem very weak compared to BBV, even in solo play.

You are blabbering utter nonsense without any proof whatsoever, whatever happened to you individually and the jealousy of that guy next door that got what he wanted does not, by any means, provide for any sort of proof. If you want to have your 'theory' even listened to by anyone - provide solid, statistical proof. Don't come with the 5 out of 6 didn't drop, that sample size is so pathetic it's equivalent to proclaiming that woman with dimples has a higher sex drive - sound ludicrous right? Same goes for your post.

Sure, i did 7 wardens on MP6 the other day and i only got 1 key, the night before i did 12 wardens on MP5 and i got 12 keys. Seriously, just get a coin and toss it 11 times, please report your findings upon that and proclaim that there's a 75.234% chance of getting heads when tossing a coin.

People like you should not only be banned from forums, people like you should be banned from life in general - idiocy like that makes life all that much more miserable for those around you.

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from akse

If they make the good items more common they are not any more expensive in the AH soon. Soon it will be common gear and finding upgrades will be even more difficult. Soon you would need to roll the desired stats with close to perfect rolls on the stats. Now you need to roll most of the desired stats with quite high values to earn some money or get yourself an upgrade.

...but the AH has no bearing on drop rates, right?

Even though he mentioned the AH the general point is that things have to be balanced around how fast people are killing, not much else. Therefore, relative rarity of items "good" "better" "best" will always be based on that tuning point.

Did you watch Alkaizer's stream? The guy killed so fast that he had a bag full of legendaries/sets. He'd get more legendaries/sets in one farming session than I'd get in 3 weeks. That's the result of having almost 300% MF from pLvls and farming at an insane rate. His stream is proof that if you farm faster with more MF you *will* be swimming in loot. The idea that good stuff doesn't drop is simply so overblown it's not funny. Everything has to be throttled to some extent, AH, no AH, self-found only or not.

Quote from dizzum

Quote from Mormolyce

Quote from Gr3yham3Lim

i found thousands of set n unique items in d2.. did that make me want to stop finding items after I had those items? no, because i knew that with those items i could

Thousands of set and uniques? In Hell? Over how long? LOL is all I can say to that.

I don't find his statement hard to believe at all.
I played D2 for about 7 years, and doing meph/pindle runs nonstop would net you a unique/set item on average every 3 runs, sometimes more, sometimes less. Considering you could do a run in 30 seconds, someone playing for 5+ hours a day could easily farm up 100 uniques, per day.
They dropped FAR more often than they do in D3.

I find your statement INCREDIBLY wrong.

You may have found a unique/set every 3 runs (which is a dubious number to begin with), however, the chances of it being one you'd even want to pick up were very low. Did you pick up that 37,893th Isenheart's Breastplate? No, you didn't. Even if you were botting, which oh so many people did in D2, you were really only generating approximately 1-2 quality items every 8 hours. Citing 100 uniques per day is simply retarded. I could present to you a list of set/unique items and at least 2/3rds of them you'd leave sitting on the ground and, oddly enough, most of the ones that people didn't want were the more-common ones to get.

This is just another example of someone who is remembering D2 far too fondly and losing track of the reality of the loot in that game.

Seriously, I dare you people to go fire up D2 and start botting some Pindle runs. I can guarantee that all this ridiculous hyperbole is just that. But, hey, these forums really are turning to shit when we're being completely trolled by people with 13 posts whose memories of D2 are clearly incorrect, but hey, why not state it as fact? Because, you know, everything is a fact until the fact-checkers come by.

Quote from kanzaki_urumi

This discussion is pointless. Game is unrewarding and at some point people get tired of not dropping shit.

Of course there's no discussion to be had. Every single thread you've posted on that has anything to do with loot has come down to you calling anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you an "idiot." The fact that you've had moderation action on two posts you've made in this very thread should tell you something - it's not about your opinion, it's about the fact that these are DISCUSSION forums and that your OPINION is not the be-all and end-all of discussion.

I'm sorry that you find the game to be bad. You are just one of millions of people and coming to these forums with the "I'm right no matter what" attitude is fucking atrocious and we're better off without people like you.

However, random loot is random. And unless you're going to come at us with actual numbers - how many hours you've spent, how many elite kills you have in that time, a breakdown of iLevel, rarity (blue, yellow, orange, green), and possibly even stream so that we can see that you "never" get anything "good" then it's all sounding like a contrived story.

Need I remind you of that guy who was streaming every day about how he never got loot? After a few days people started calling him on the fact that he was, in fact, vendoring saleable items. The problem with statements like "never get good loot" is that it hinges on the persons intelligence to make that determination. If your attitude is anything close to reflective of your intelligence then I can say for sure that we know why you're "never" getting anything "good" and it has more to do with operator error than a broken system.

TL;DR
The thread is only pointless if you've already cashed out. In that case you're not here for the discussion, you're here to vent. While venting isn't entirely bad, it does hinder discussion quite a bit, as evidenced in this very thread.

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from shaggy

Saying that D2 functioned "perfectly" is just as ridiculous.

Which of course I never said, but ok.

Within the context of this thread (loot, D3 AH vs D2 trading), you very much DID say that. Why you would assume that I'm veering from the context of this thread without explicitly indicating so is beyond me. However, you did pointedly say that loot in D2 was perfect - something that is provably untrue. Your exact words were that the game "functioned perfectly well without the AH." And I stand by my position that said words are not only misleading but amusingly silly. The hundreds of Isenheart's Breastplates I left on the ground agree with me.

I fully respect the maxim of not breaking what isn't broken, but in order to invoke that (which you are clearly trying to do) the obvious first step is that nothing is broken, and that simply isn't true. Trading, for people who wanted to do it, was tedious in D2. People were constantly scammed. The common currencies (yes, multiple currencies) all took up inventory space which forced a lot of toon-hopping and required a trusted friend to transfter loot between your mules and the toon you wanted it on.

Furthermore, finding and executing a trade forced you to not be playing the game, something that the D3 team has clearly taken under consideration because they've made a number of changes which allow us to focus on killing monsters for items and not dicking around with menial tasks that keep us from doing so. Finding an item on the AH can take a while, but it doesn't take anywhere near as long as finding an acceptable trade did in D2. So the idea that nothing about trading in D2 could have been improved upon is not only laughable but entirely ignorant of the situation.

What you are doing is, ultimately, making an argument against any form of change at all so long as one person can bury their head in the sand and say "it was fine the old way" no matter how factually inaccurate that may be.

Who needs anti-lock breaks, we don't have THAT many car accidents when it snows outside! Besides, anti-lock breaks make it harder for me to change my own brake pads and then I have to take the car to a mechanic - it's like Ford and GM are forcing me into something!

Who needs smartphones or cell phones, being tethered to the wall is totally OK! Besides, old land lines had absolutely no problems ever. They were the epitome of telephones and nothing could possibly top them so why try? It's just a scam for Apple to make lots of money anyway!

Who needs insulation in our walls, it didn't get THAT cold in the winter! Besides, living in a log cabin made moving a lot more adventuresome. Taking time to fell the trees and fashion a new house was fun and it was rewarding because I had to work for it! Homeowners today could never be as proud of their house that they bought from someone else as I am of my log cabin because I did it myself!

Why move on from anything, ever? Why not just cling to the past like a wet blanket perpetually claiming that it was so much better despite the fact that there are pros and cons to both the past and the future?

What really irks me is that all you see is the negative to the AH, despite clear benefits. Yet when we talk about D2 trading all you see is the positive, despite clear drawbacks. We're not having a discussion here, it's ridiculous nostalgia and idolatry. It's not based in facts or reason, but in statements that are designed to play to the emotions and evoke some kind of lynch mob response. I feel like every one of these posts is some kind of WWII propoganda poster and not actually reasonable, adult, discussion.

If it were reasonable discussion there would be no insinuation that the loot and economy of D2 were "perfect" in any sense of the word. I'm not going to waste your time by saying that the AH is perfect because it is not. I'd appreciate if you didn't waste my time by telling me that D2 loot and trading was perfect, because it was not. Get a sense of pragmatism here - dealing in this realm where everything is black, or white, but never grey is tedious and doesn't promote any form of actual intelligence or anything short of internet fighting.