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Quote from Kissmyaxe»

Quote from Cleglaw_Xendlar»

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i've played many games throughout many years, most of them are/were RPG's and Strategy games. while i understand what you mean, and i agree to a degree, i think this isnt the issue here.

main issue is "supposedly meta builds" are not "meta builds". they were inteded to be such, they were designed to be a part of the existing beta.

in other words, designers goals are not met, therefore, what we encounter is a bad, unintended result of a bad design.

i know im making bold statements here, but i invite you to look at a couple of things together... lets go;



Deadly Rebirth, a legendary ceremonial weapon, is specifically designed for you to use Grasp of the dead:
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/deadly-rebirth

+Increases Grasp of the Dead Damage by 45–60% (Witch Doctor Only)

this affix is to grant damage. you use this item, you expect to see good damage. pretty self explanatory.

+Grasp of the Dead gains the effect of the Rain of Corpses rune.

what this rune does, it adds a second damage source. with Rain of Corpses, corpses also rains down to the sky and falls on enemies. so, even more and more damage is provided.

also another thing to be noted, it gives you furthermore control over enemies, because corpses can fall anywere on screen, not only targeted area of grasp of the dead.

moving on, we even see more items for grasp of the dead.

wilken's reach, a legendary off hand, a mojo:

https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/wilkens-reach

first affix you see, is just like Deadly Rebirth, is a bonus damage specifically granted for Grasp of the Dead. designer clearly wants you to deal damage.

+Increases Grasp of the Dead Damage by 45–60% (Witch Doctor Only)

also, again, just like Deadly Rebirth, a second affix is there for grasp of the dead.

+Grasp of the Dead no longer has a cooldown.

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if those 2 items are not enough and you are looking for more, you can combine them in a set, hellthooth set.
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/helltooth-tunic

more damage multipliers for grasp of the dead.

an alternate path also exists, LoN.

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and STILL ITS NOT ENOUGH. even if you have all those items, grasp of the dead will not do any noticible damage to a monster from GR 30 or higher. it cant kill anything at all.

see, thats why i say graps of the dead were aimed to be part of the existing meta but it isnt. this is clearly result of a terrible design.



this is just one single but i can go on and on. for example, look at the skill corpse spiders, and items designed for it. same things happens there too. special affixes and bonus damages and even a set that includes that skill in it(arachyr set). result? just like grasp of the dead, intended as a part of meta but fails so bad to become one. some terrible design which even devs do not want to see.

there are many terrible designed things existing for WD. and from what i heard, WD isnt the only one suffers from those. all classes have many terrible designed things for them.

meta cant become meta!

Hi. Lately i feel very disapointed about d3 after having played season 10 with my WD for a quite time.

my wd is 560 paragon levels, and beaten GR 71 as of now. i was really enjoying the game, feeling of progression and experimenting stuff.. but it stopped.

my problem at this point is.. not about lack of endgame content or atmosphere(.now of course those are issues, but they are already spoken a lot and i see no reason to discuss endgame or atmosphere of d3.) it is.. the lack of diversity, illusion of diversity in this game.

grasp of the dead... sacrifice... zombie bears.. all those skills... primary skills... lots of passive skills... there are tons of useless skills that drives me angry when i try to make builds for them, because simply, they DONT WORK!

and even worse, there are lots of cool looking items ---which are acctually not cool enough--- make one believe that you can do something if you use them... WRONG! apparently thats just an illusion. when you really put them on, and try to slay some demons, you see you just suck! you deal no damage or die instantly or both!

this game is very unbalanced and this really disturbs me. more then half a content for wd is just in the game to create an illusion of choice... i suspect same thing goes on with other heroes too. after all these years of developement AND even moving on to design another hero(necro) one expects core game to be in a good position allready... but im not seeing that at all!

i think devs should inspect closer and test every single item, tweak numbers here and there, and if necessary, even add some new items to make some combinations possible to work as they should. i ve only seen such change for spirit barrage, only 1 skill in whole wd skillset. its not useless anymore thankfully but.. saying again, its only 1 skill among all those useless pile of skills/items.

and theres also another issue, some usefull skills have wierd problems to be solved... for example soul harvest skill.. its very problematic when you enter boss fight, especcialy againts boss who are far, far away from white mobs... like the way to cydea. how am i supposed to use and stack this skill in cydea fight? frustrating...

to cut it short, i think there is a big unthouched sad pile of useless stuff in d3 still which are still not adressed/fixed.

whats your thoughts on this ?

btw, im sorry if my english is too bad and if makes it difficult to understand.

atmosphere... fix the frigging atmosphere which d3 ruined in series first.

what do i mean?

-everything explodes and flies away. TOO much epic that it doesnt look even a bit realistic. goatman flying 100 meters and stuff..
-hero destroys everthing with such a big force and impact, that nothing holds a fearful effect on player psychology, not even bosses.
-talking about bosses, they really talk too much and game itself is explaining every single detail which leaves no room for mystery. yeah we want to learn more and more lore, but not like this. it shouldnt be like this.
-no darkness whatsoever. light radius was acctually a brilliant idea, both in mechanical use and atmosphere. i come to realise that now, i wasnt a fan of this back then but more i think over it more i love it. im writing my own imaginary diablo game, and nearly half of my monster ideas are associated with darkness mechanic. it feels holy/unholy, it gives a nice touch to creater, it creates an unknown fear.. the list of reasons goes on... this kind of game needs different levels of dark & light in it. no doubt.
-some armors and weapons looks way over the top. im playing barbarian and i absoloutly dislike the end game item looks. it all looks giant, feels like im in a some kind of anime-game. this is wrong. previous diablo games never did such a thing. epicness is not about how big an item is. half of d3 items look totally out of place.
-for the most part, music is terrible. esspecially in vanilla. who the heck thought ambient sound effects are good for diablo? diablo music is not a background music that fades away, on the contrary it pulls you in with its strong sound. guitars, drums and strong orchestral music which is almost wagnerlike(like in d2 LoD, act 5).
-enviroment looks like a painting, it focuses on being beutiful.. it kinda achieves being beutiful but objects look like plastic and baby proof rounded corners are everywhere lol. no grim sights of realistic torture/corpses and stuff.. enviroment has a wierd fog on them. probably for good causes such as not causing any visual cluster... but it also destroys realism. backgrounds is.. too much background.
-color themes are horrible. i still cant understand why they thought this was a good idea. act 5 is all blue, from leoric to butcher, all the way is colored heavy red. i mean if you are going to use lots of colors in diablo at least do it the right way. color themed enviroments are horrible.
-too much politically correct. no nudity, no dead child or women. reused zombies as corpses. gender equality concerns all round the game.
-d1 & d2 mythos was heavily influenced by christianity, but d3 has like.. none. again, pollitical correctness. they redifined mythos for no real reason and know it doesnt seem sanctuary but looks like a new fantasy setting.
-serious mood ruined by jokes all the time. just why?
-gameplay evolved around being superfast. it shouldnt be like this. we shouldnt be rushing everything, from rifts to killing monsters. this may look like what we want, but its acctually devs mistake. they caused this desire to emerge.

when you talk about effort to make something happen, you become to think like a game dev rather then a game player(user). we are users, so think as a user. dev problems are for devs and we may never really know hard or easy will it be for them to handle those problems. user may only "assume" things about developing but not acctually "know". same applies for the dev side.

i think d3 has an awesome camera view, hit feel etc etc, and i guess pvp would feel very satisfying and unique if implemented well in it.

d2 had no dev supported deep pvp as you say, yeah, it was mostly created by community effort. but also when you think of it, this was a completely okay thing for its time. in 2017, we are far from that point now with internet/multiplayer being much more accessable. gaming is much more global and social. doing same thing today is not okay anymore. devs are responsible for those social interaction between players. its not something luxury anymore. its fundemental.

josh may have said those words, but it doesnt mean pvp discussion should be a closed case. after all its the users who play the game. this topic is alive as long as considerable number of players keep demanding and voicing opinions about it. as you see, its not forgotten, and if its not forgotten then its not dead.

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pvp is not the reason why some games are crap. real reason is, the way how todays devs deliver it. its very wrong to cut everything in sake of pvp. so that "big fat no" is acctually not fat at all. if you are looking for whats wrong, then i advise you to look for details instead of existence of the pvp concept.

lol what are you people are on?

pvp is ESSENTIAL TO "ANY GAME" TODAY.

and dont forget blizzard scammed players with a pvp promise.

"pvp will kill diablo"
now, why would it kill? any reason? its hard to balance things for pvp i get it yeah its true but its only a matter of difficulty not about atmosphere or anything like that. pvp isnt something alien to diablo.


everyone is crying about how end game is boring, but also, somehow doesnt want pvp in diablo?! pvp can deliver all time fun and you really dont want it?

i really have some hard time understanding this. you should be either happy with games current state, or simply want modes like op suggest to have some more things to do so you can be happy after that.


@OP

just brainstorming.. how about winner stealing loot from loser? tears of joy and rage may very well fuel the desire of more and more loothunt in other game mods one random item of losing side drops.. imagine you enter an intense pvp but you die and your awesome weapon is looted by enemy hero. such a tempting gamble!

hahahah. passion for d3.

nice joke.

why the hell people think we should pay more for more diablo? they allready earned millions and millions. we allready made them super rich.

i hope they dont make us wait for another 10 years, thats the main problem. its already been 4.. or 5 years? necro gonna be next year so new game at least need 1-2 years with most optimistic guess.. that makes 7 years at best. some people like me, already got bored of d3. lately i installed diablo 1 & 2 again and playing them over and over(btw, those games have real deal fun & atmosphere, i wish blizzard inspect those games again to capture real diablo feel... but i was proven wrong in past, believing that blizzard isnt stupid, so they probably do the dumbest thing to do, and continue on making a poor story driven disney version of wow in future diablo. my wishes and blizzard doesnt meet for a long time now.)

diablo got no love.. AGAIN. im so done with blizzard. they can keep bringing countless xpacs to wow for eternity, i dont give a single damn about those games. i love diablo but blizzard been too lazy for too long. im very disappointed.

good thing though.. i will not be disappointed again since i will boycott blizzard from now on. no hopes no disappointments.

Quote from Cleglaw_Xendlar»

and STILL ITS NOT ENOUGH. even if you have all those items, grasp of the dead will not do any noticible damage to a monster from GR 30 or higher. it cant kill anything at all.

see, thats why i say graps of the dead were aimed to be part of the existing meta but it isnt. this is clearly result of a terrible design.

You really wonder if there just isn't a QA department, or if they are completely incompetent, and also if designers are unable to use a spreadsheet to model this stuff. They spend so much time adding new items with new features, and some of those items have no prayer of making any real impact to gameplay because the damage is sometimes order of magnitudes lower than meta damages. They are just wasting their time coming up with some of those items in the first place.

Quote from RealGsuss»

Well, I get what you're saying. But you'll have to ask yourself, why are you playing that one build? because it's stronger, so you play it, to progress faster, to gain more paragon levels, but for what? do you want to push leaderboards?

if not, why not just try to find fun builds ("play it your way") and see how far you can push them. sure, maybe you can't push 80+ with most of those builds, but you can challenge yourself, beat your best GR with that build.

I for myself am almost always playing meta builds, because i want to reach certain goals in every season. next season, i just play another class. by the time I come back to the class, a lot has changed (at least in the recent past). new items, buffs and whatnot.

so, if you're not enjoying the WD anymore, and you don't want to try out those lame skills and items, because you can't even farm t11+ anymore, why not switching to another class? and if that's not working for you, you might even think about switching to another game, sad as this sounds. main reason to play games should be to have fun (or earn money with it by streaming). if you're not having fun anymore, just scrap it

just my 2 cents

All of that goes completely out the window if you want to play with friends / spouse. If you aren't even able to complete torment 8 nobody is going to have fun playing with people who can clear 10+ in 2 minutes flat.

I get what OP is saying:

• The useless skills needs to be tuned so they work
• We need more generalized sets like LoN (except that isn't LoN) that allows us to pick any skill. Maybe it's time to rework Blackthorne to be competitive with class sets?
• We need to get rid of mandatory skills/buffs, I'm sick of playing with 4 passive skillslots/buffs and 1-2 attack skills.
• Time to get rid of sets with wording like "Makes <specific skill> hit 30000000% harder".
• Bring primary skills up to be something other than 50% dmg buffs through F&R.
• Have spenders feel like they're worth using before getting legendaries and have the legendaries buff them by a bit, not a metric fuckton.
• Actually.. Just bring back resources as something build/spent.

Unrelated to OP: For gods sake, can we do something about the need to stare at the UI for FnR/CoE/similar short buffs/cooldowns. I want to play the game, not stare at icons.

In short, if the difference between a skill being worthless and extremely powerful is a legendary, it's poor design.

the fact that you have to use haunt + LS in almost every WD build becouse of the 300% increased dmg is what made me sad ;/

Same thing happens to me. I mostly play DH which actually has the biggest diversity in useful builds. Still there are some things like elemental arrow, chakram, cold grandes, LoN spike traps that simply don't work because bad in-game mechanics. It is very easy to balance this things to the 40,000% impale damage just by fixing the way they interact with legendary gems and other legendary items.

Cold skills are terrible since mobs eventually become inmune to freeze. Rimeheart/frostburn combo which could make a lot of interesting cold builds interesting is fully useless instead.

Can't imagine how bad that feels on a WD with only one build for grs.

Quote from Cleglaw_Xendlar»

when you talk about effort to make something happen, you become to think like a game dev rather then a game player(user). we are users, so think as a user. dev problems are for devs and we may never really know hard or easy will it be for them to handle those problems. user may only "assume" things about developing but not acctually "know". same applies for the dev side.

i think d3 has an awesome camera view, hit feel etc etc, and i guess pvp would feel very satisfying and unique if implemented well in it.

d2 had no dev supported deep pvp as you say, yeah, it was mostly created by community effort. but also when you think of it, this was a completely okay thing for its time. in 2017, we are far from that point now with internet/multiplayer being much more accessable. gaming is much more global and social. doing same thing today is not okay anymore. devs are responsible for those social interaction between players. its not something luxury anymore. its fundemental.

josh may have said those words, but it doesnt mean pvp discussion should be a closed case. after all its the users who play the game. this topic is alive as long as considerable number of players keep demanding and voicing opinions about it. as you see, its not forgotten, and if its not forgotten then its not dead.

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pvp is not the reason why some games are crap. real reason is, the way how todays devs deliver it. its very wrong to cut everything in sake of pvp. so that "big fat no" is acctually not fat at all. if you are looking for whats wrong, then i advise you to look for details instead of existence of the pvp concept.

I would be stunned if we don't get D4 eventually. Although eventually may be half a decade or a decade from now. D3 sold over a billion dollars worth of software. When they can't squeeze any more money out of class packs and the like, they will eventually make a sequel.

Personally, I think the future of D3 is just the low effort we've seen in '16 and '17, and whether we ever see any more class packs will depend on how well the Necro pack sells. Personally, I hope its a flop because the sooner they close the chapter on 3, the sooner they can really push development of 4.

I think D3 is essentially in maintenance mode. Even the big reveals at Blizzcon were pretty underwhelming.

If you want to play an ARPG game that has changes and growth, I'd suggest either PoE (new leagues with different mechanics every 3 months and a fifth act coming in the middle of the year) or Grim Dawn (released last year, DLC last year, new expansion this year). I think Blizzard just has more franchise that keep bringing in new revenue like WoW, Overwatch, and Hearthstone, so Diablo gets the red headed stepchild treatment since the franchise isn't still bringing in big bucks.

Quote from Dethklok1637»

Firstly, you really need to educate yourself on how TurboHUD works. It doesn't DO anything for you, it's just an overlay. In fact, they've taken some of its ideas and implemented them into the UI. All it does is give you information that, quite frankly, takes away a lot of the mystery of things. It doesn't automatically make you a better player.. you still need a solid idea of how to play the game in order to really utilize it properly. Why? It shows you things like the borders on ground effects like frozen so you can stand in a spot where it won't hit you, as an example. Knowing those borders doesn't make you better... but knowing that you shouldn't be standing in that, and having the instinct to move away without just trying to tank it does.

Secondly, most people you see in game are running it clean. If you play enough, you get a sense of the tile sets and you start to see trends in how the areas are stitched together in rifts especially. It doesn't take a genius to improve your own pathing skills in the game... just an attention span.

Lastly, you are some noob crying because you don't understand enough about the problem to properly comment about it. Case and point? I've seen posts on other forums stating that simply because people run GR75 solo to farm they're automatically botters. One doesn't imply the other. If you want a game that uses addons, refer to the above comment about WoW.

All that said, I don't use THUD, but I'm smart enough to know how it works. Do i think addons could benefit Diablo? To a limited extent, yes. There's a lot of UI changes coming in to close the gaps. In all honestly, I really like where it's headed, but I'd like some sort of advanced stats or even a replay feature. Something to tell me how much damage I do, or show me that I'm not lining things up enough with my LoN bombs, for example.

So... don't just jump the gun because you're not good at the game. Realize your mistakes and improve or you're just setting yourself up for more unnecessary gripes.

Memory lane ? this is NOTHING like diablo 1. This is diablo3 tilesets and diablo 3 mobs. With an added shitty filter. We wanted d1 looking and playing like d3. Not d3 looking and playing like d1. This is crap and should never have been made

Blizzcon was a disappointment, but not because DLC. This game needs steady income to move forward (people already forgot that there was crap load of stuff added to the game after ros released - grifts, cube, ancients, seasons, legendary gems etc.), complaining about paying extra money for necro is just bad. Blizzard is not a charity institution, you have to pay them somehow if u want to have steady stream of high quality updates.

DLC will come too late, we will have like 8 months of stagnation from now, prolly with some new items added here and there and quality of life changes like armory. Game will be in a terrible state when we get a DLC and without fixing other important issues (paragon, very short progression) i have feeling that

it will be dead game at that point.