You still haven't stated a valid way in which more money will lead to improvements to D3 such that it is worth playing, while an item and gear selling store is operating.
Come on now. Let's be serious for a moment. You want me to say what specifically more money can do to improve D3 with the presence of a store when I have never played the game? If that is what it takes to make my argument valid, we'll need to wait a couple of years after release, see how the in-game economy is fairing and then only will we be able to resume this discussion. Since this is not a viable option, the next best thing is to be rational about the situation. What does a game need to be better? More frequent patches and content perhaps?
How do the latter come into existence? Magic? I doubt it.
It's well-known fact that it is usually gnomes and elves at blizzard who work tirelessly through the night, away from human eyes, to make it possible. More money means
-that blizzard can now buy more candy for the gnomes and elves that are hired from Santa Claus to do the work
-and has also a stronger incentive to give us 'regular' updates.
I said it in my first post- this is not an automatic course of action but a probable one.
Regarding the store, it's not so much the integrity of the game at stake here but the integrity of the gamer as a person. Because not everyone is willing to consider spending real-life money as one of the variables to their approach to the game. You can see it this way- if you have time to farm and luck is on your side, you don't need to spend money. In the other case, you always have the option to spend cash and save yourself time. One possible advantage(I'm only speculating) is a faster way to build a PvP character. You can argue it will be unfair but the counter to this is that you won't get someone in the arena until you feel they are ready, independent of how they acquired their gear.
As for the possibility of the in-game economy being affected, I'm assuming the range of items offered in the store will be limited. Other illegal sites can profit from that but my point is that blizzard can earn substantial revenue from selling a good range of gear so that if ever buying items from the store becomes common-place, there will still be items in the game that will have a high fetching price, thereby not completely invalidating your farming efforts. So I'm expecting the economy to adjust by itself. I know that bit was nowhere in your argument but I'm just considering the different aspects of the game that can be hit by the presence of the store.
The way Sixen worded his post made me interpret it as there being a market out there for buying items with real-life money. And these items make it into the game.
With a blizzard hosted store, that market will still exist but this time the game developers will benefit from it. Of course, there's always the issue of competitive prices but that's a whole another matter.
They key difference is that this time, it's in the open and not a backyard deal. If D2 was not broken due to that, I find it an exaggeration to claim that D3 suddenly will be unplayable because of the store.
You seemed to have completely missed the point. What you're talking about is continued support and development for the game. But I've already shown in my previous post, with examples of possible additional content, (requoted below) that once there is an item selling store operating, why the game wouldn't even be worth playing, let alone supporting.
Refer to above.
Additionally, D2, WC3, and SC2 didn't need continued revenue from an item-selling store. If your concern is that Blizzard requires continued revenue in order to support Diablo 3 into the future, then why don't you suggest a subscription model? While a subscription model may not be as popular as a pay-once game, at least it doesn't cause the game to be unfair the same way an item-selling store will. At least, everyone will still have equal access to the same content and gear. Compared to an item-selling store, a subscription model is also the lesser of the two evils.
In summary, there's no point in supporting a shit game through additional dungeons, features, systems, and content.
A shit game probably not. A good one, definitely yes.
Isn't a subscription model much more suitable for MMORPGs that have considerable server costs? I really can't see how the expenses involved in D3 would warrant one- which is why I deem a simple vanity store to be fair(your favorite word) as a form of constant revenue and why a subscription-based system never crossed my mind.
You think I'm the only person who would not play a game that is trivialized by players buying gear off a store? Look at the poll result. My claim was not that more money will not lead to more improvements. My claim was that more money generated from an item selling store will not lead to improvements, because the very existence of an item selling store causes irreparable damage: "I do not see how more money can possibly improve the game to the point it is worth playing, as long as an item-selling store is functioning".
I don't know, man. I would love to think the poll is representative of what the majority of players feel about the whole thing but I haven't seen anything so far that would suggest that the people who voted constitute a normative sample. I might be totally wrong though and only 400 or so people are going to play D3.
Also nobody knows the exact financial model D3 is going to be based on and the level of control the team has over it, in the case of imminent failure as you have predicted should item-selling stores form part the game. Best bet is to wait and see I guess.
True. Editing mistake on my behalf and I got things mixed up when I originally(first post I replied to you) quoted two of your posts- Sixen one and the other from Sabvre.
My post was directed at Sixen's news post (I even quoted it), in which he was clearly talking about an item and gear selling store, and not a vanity store, as he has a separate category for vanity stores. So why are you talking about vanity stores in a part of the discussion that is about an item and gear selling store? While the discussion of my response to Sixen's post is about an item and gear selling store, everything else is about selling vanity items.
It is also not clear to me why you've wrote this in response to what you've quoted, as it doesn't address or even relate to what is in the quote.
As I've stated before, there is no point in putting resources and money into a game that has been shitted on by an item selling store.
A game is not the same as a car. Vanity items are a core part of the game. They come with the game. It is not unusual for games to offer the entire feature set, all of the content, equally to everyone, in one transaction. This is how D2 and WC3 worked. Everyone buys the same game, everyone has the same access to all of the content, vanity or otherwise.
I do not regard vanity items as core of the game.
I'm not measuring anything for myself. I'm stating the obvious fact that people place different values on gear and vanity items, as measured by ones enjoyment of the game.
While most people would derive greater enjoyment in the game from getting a best-in-slot item compared to dying their headpiece purple, others may derive more enjoyment from the game from dying their headpiece purple, compared to getting a weapon upgrade that amounted to +1 stamina.
And therefore, justifying selling vanity items as acceptable because gear is more important, as you seem to have done, fails because different players place different values on the importance of either.
It only fails if you see vanity items as core of the game and our views differ on this one.
I'm not even suggesting that Blizzard raise the price of D3, so I'm not sure why you came to the conclusion that the idea of predicting how much profit a store would generate would be unfeasible. I'm only saying hypothetically that raising the price is not as bad as any form of store, because it keeps the game fair.
This was an argument to point out the importance of fairness in a game.
You completely lost me on this one. You are not suggesting but you are saying hypothetically... Language barrier I fear.
Also you can't just randomly mention an idea if it is not even feasible which is I why I actually considered it as a possible alternative since our perceptions of fairness is different.
If you want that vanity item, and it was only available through a store, then there is no other way to have that item, therefore, by definition, you are forced to pay for it. There is no other way to legally acquire the item.
How is it "spoiled" to want everyone to have the same and equal access to all features of the game? It seems that it would be more "spoiled" for some players to get access to additional vanity items and customization features, just because they are willing to spend more real life money, as opposed to having all of this be obtainable by in-game means only.
Vanity is extra. Paying for extra is completely justifiable. Wanting extra for free is 'spoiled' to me.
This is an argument I've already debunked. Different players place different values on gear compared to vanity items as measured by their enjoyment of the game. I've even given 2 examples above. So it's unfair that some players can have unequal access to these vanity items. It's not always about ability to compete.
Refer to above reply.
Strange. I was pretty sure the perpetrator of any moronicity (yay for new word!) needs to be a moron, at least temporarily, until the act is done.
I called Sixen's argument as "moronic", I didn't directly call him a moron, this is different from what you've done. But this isn't related to the issues in this thread.
Excuse me if I am more direct.
Alright let's talk a bit about this fairness business.
I'm not being close-minded, I have considered the implications of any store and have come to the conclusion that they are all bad. The concept of fairness is a simple one: that everyone has equal access to all features of the game. This is not a new definition, I've been saying it in my previous thread. What is your problem with this? Why would you prefer that in order to get certain vanity items someone may want, that they be forced to pay for it through a store, or go without it?
Ultimately, D3 is a game, it is not real life, and therefore the amount of real life money you are willing to spend, above the core game that everyone buys should not come into the equation, nor affect ones enjoyment of the game. That is why I've stated that the strongest argument against any store is because it destroys fairness.
First of all I simply cannot stomach that notion of being 'forced' to get a vanity item if you want it. Just like the extra in a collector's edition that you have to pay more for, vanity items are the extra of the game. Should you feel you absolutely need it to enjoy the game, then you should pay for it.
D3 is not real life but the financial model will be based on real-life applications. Like, if you are willing to pay more, you are entitled for more. I partially agree with you that item-selling stores might probably have too much of a consequential disadvantage upon gameplay but as far as vanity items go, the whole playing field changes.
Obviously your perception will be different because of the importance you attribute to these, but understand that for some vanity is fluff and such a store generating revenue is hence perfectly alright.