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I personally don't mind the rune binding to a certain skill once used. But, I would rather know the type of rune I'm using than have to gamble every time - that gamble should be in trying to attain a certain type of rune from drops and such. I know Jay said that, once a player gets to higher difficulties, they should have a feel for how the system works. But, there is still a situation where you're using a skill with a Lvl 6 crimson rune that you love and you find a Lvl 7 rune to replace it only to find out after using it that it's indigo, which is not in line with your play style. And, because you might have needed an indigo rune in a different skill, you've essentially wasted that rune. Now, I know wasted is a terrible term because a.) it still has tons of value (either for crafting, salvaging, or to sell on the AH) even if you're not going to use it and b.) you can just go back to using your Lvl 6 crimson rune, etc etc. On the other hand, in the current system, runes you don't personally need would still have that same value, but there are potential problems with AH rune hoarding if a certain color is the absolute best for a number of skills. I think there are rationales for both systems to work- there are always really viable options if you can't get the rune you want. But, it just seems like there could be more frustration than necessary with the theoretical model.

TL;DR: The thing I am most unclear on regarding the theoretical rune system after listening to the Jay Wilson interview is which of these he meant:
1. A crimson rune drops but is "grey" to a skill. You pop it in a skill, it binds to that skill and adds also bonuses
OR
2. A colorless grey rune drops. The only way to find out what color it is is to pop it into a skill, which then binds it to that skill and add bonuses.

After reading and watching the Jay Wilson interview regarding the proposed Runestone changes, I have to say I'm a little confused and share some of Sixen's concerns.

Let's take the Wizard, for example. In the runestone video, each color rune changes the Ray of Frost skill in slightly different ways. Now, let's say that I've played the game, have experimented with all 5 runes for this skill and decide the best one for my build is the one that changes it to a swirling vortex. So, logically I will now want to find a higher rank of that specific rune so I can put it in that skill. This makes other runes less valuable for that skill, but not necessarily for other skills as I may need a different color for Arcane Missiles, etc.

Now, the proposed system as I'm understanding it (which everybody is more than welcome to correct if I'm way off base), is that runes will no longer drop as a certain color - they drop as grey or whatever. Then you place that rune into a skill and it becomes that skill's rune. Here's where my confusion about everything comes into play. Will you have any idea ahead of time what effect that rune will have on that skill - ie what color that rune will end up being? The way it was described seems like some sort of crazy lottery where you will never know what color rune it will end up as before placing it into a skill. In my above example, it no longer seems like it's possible to pursue a particular color rune for a particular effect because you won't know before you potentially waste it on a skill.

However, if runes do drop as specific colors (crimson, indigo and so on), but become locked once placed into a skill, then that seems like a viable reworking of the rune system as you could still know the effect ahead of time and go for certain rune types based on builds as well as adding weight to your choices of which skills get which runes. Personally, this is one system where knowing and planning ahead of time is worthwhile. The Diablo theory of drops still works as you could go hundreds of runs without getting the specific rune you want. But, with the AH and trading, your unwanted runes aren't ever worthless because there is no doubt someone who will need or want them.

TL;DR: Basically, will runes still drop as a certain color but grey for a skill (meaning they can be placed into ANY skill initially), or do they drop with no color and it becomes a lottery to find out what type it is by placing it into a skill?

I can definitely say, "Yay!" However, there comes a point where Blizzard is going to just have to make solid decisions and go with certain things. I know it's so so close to being released, but it seems like they're in a never ending spiral of development where a change in one system spirals down into another and so on. "Well, we changed the skill/trait system, which really got us thinking of ways to refine and update the rune system." I don't want them to rush the game to release (ha!), but there has to be a point of finality sometime.

Quote from slipknotjake

Fuck blizzard and their greedy asses if this real money bs is for real..

This should work like ebay if I read it right. Other than the usage fee, the money you use to purchase items won't go to Blizzard - it will go to that player's account. I don't really see this as greedy though. As a business, it's quite genius to cash on something that's going to happen anyways. I know Blizz has tons of income from game subscriptions and such, but it's not like they just keep it all locked in a vault. It's used in the upkeep of servers, new servers, and working on game content, etc. To me, this extra income could be more support for the game in the future so might as well have it monitored by the people who are in charge of the game rather than some Chinese sweat shop.

My only worry (which rivals the argument, "If you don't like it then don't use it - just use the gold AH") is that it will be easily subjected to player abuse and greed - namely, people will only want to sell the "good" items for real money or for far too much money - the prices in the SS are around $3-5, but there will be $100+ listings (and people to buy them) unless there are regulations, etc. I guess we'll find out for sure quite soon.

Quote from italofoca

Don't be stupid.
When flipping a coin the chance of heads in attempt one is the same as in attempt 1027, but not the same in 1027 attempts. You're looking at the probability of the drop while you should be looking at the expected value of getting the drop.

I feel we may be splitting hairs over terminology (and I may have mis-worded myself before). Yes, the probability of achieving a success over X attempts will be greater than X-1 attempts, and so on. However, each individual time you do the run, the probability of a success does not change. Thus, even though you're on your 100th run to try and get that item with a 1% drop rate, it's never guaranteed to drop. But, over those entire 100 runs, the probability of seeing that item is certainly greater than 1%.

In fact, the formula for finding the probability of a drop over a certain number of runs is: 1 - [(1-x)^y], where x is the item's drop rate and y is the number of runs.

Quote from italofoca

Ifc course the chance of getting a item increase with each run.

For the sake of easy argument, imagine item A drop with 50% prob in a run. In one run you have 50% prob of getting item A and 50% of not getting item A. The expected amount of droped items A is 0.5
In two runs you have 25% prob of getting two itens A, 50% chance of getting one item A and 25% chance of getting no item A. The expected amount of droped itens is now 1 (50%*1+25%*2). Each time you make another run, the expected value of getting your item will increase (and the expected value of getting nothing will decrease). What remains constant is the prob of getting a item in that particular try, not in the whole experiement (total runs).

I'm sorry, but no. Just, no. In this scenario, each time you run this, the probability of getting A is 50% - it doesn't change just because you do it more. When flipping a coin, the chance of heads on attempt 1 is the same as attempt 1027 and so on. However, there are statistical distributions that can estimate the probability of success (getting your item) in a set number of runs or even the estimated number of runs it would take given the right probabilities (drop rates, etc). I remember figuring out this sort of stuff when I was doing Rivendare mount runs in WoW. Math is fun!

Just a word on drop rates: While I understand your reasoning and math, that's not technically right. The chances of getting an item don't actually increase or decrease (unless patched) each time you kill something. Each time you begin a boss fight, the chance of getting said item is still .5% (or whatever) - random events have no memory. The game doesn't say, "Oh, you've done this 99 times without success? Well, this time I will drop your item because statistics says I have to!" Granted, you could always get it on your first try, but it could also take you well over the average as well. This could all change of course if, like someone said, the loot tables change to prevent endless boss runs.

Sorry for the semi-unrelated-to-your-post rant. =)

This is somewhat unrelated, but I am so happy that no one said, "BLARGH MACS R DUMBZOR. GET A REAL COMPUTERZ!!11!." Seriously. Even though I don't post that often, I do love this forum.

What would be cool is if someone with way more talent than I could combine all 5 of these into one epic wallpaper. I remember there being something like that floating around the forums here, but it wasn't large enough to properly fit on a high res screen. But, these could provide the necessary ingredients for something awesome!

Freaking great! I had all but decided to start with the Witch Doctor, but Demon Hunter shadow minions and Monk awesomeness are making that decision very difficult to keep.

My weapon needs more power. Could you enchantress sword for me?

I've been feeling kinda sick lately. Witch Doctor should i go see?

So, will these followers fight with you until they die and then they're gone for good, or will there be a way to get them back etc? As good as game programming can be, I can just see a really awesome follower not doing what I want, subsequently dying, and leaving me S.O.L.