• 1

    posted a message on Did the Media NDA just get lifted?
    Quote from Deventh

    Quote from OmniNom

    Why so much discussion of this chick? Pics?

    I WILL DETERMINE HOTNESS.



    Also google Tania Derveaux to see more of her.

    What is your stance in this Deventh?

    I find her to be pretty hot, 7.5/10 on a REAL 1-10 scale (aka 5 average, none of this skewed 7 average bullshit).

    This requires analysis though, she is in the range where it's still subjective (unlike say, undeniably hot Heather Graham or something).

    Edit: I mean, to be fair, she's got a slightly masculine face. Some people are more sensitive to this than others!
    Posted in: Trash Can
  • 1

    posted a message on Skill System Discussion
    Text wall incoming!

    Quote from Kodachii

    I don't like this "the players are stupid, suck it up cause blizzard is smarter" stuff. I agree that people shouldn't be complaining about this particular issue but in the end blizzard is a company that depends on us to buy their junk to make money, if enough people requested something they'd almost certainly include it in their game.

    But not liking it doesn't make it untrue.

    Playing games, however extensively, does not make you a designer. It's barely even related. Just like eating doesn't make you a chef, watching movies doesn't make you a filmmaker, etc.

    And from the Designer's perspective, sometimes you have to pretend you're the player's mum and make them try something they think they won't like. Otherwise the medium would never move forward. Creators don't ask permission for what they create if they want to make something new.

    Even if Blizz would actually listen to a large portion of the fanbase disliking something,even though that's absolutely not the case here, it would be detrimental to the game as a whole.

    Quote from hoboman27

    Hi Panda, I am assuming you are asian?

    O_O

    Quote from hoboman27

    and you must know that to compare someone to a dog is very very very demeaning... sigh...

    Unless you work in the industry, your design knowledge and my dog's are pretty comparable. Also, don't hate on Captain Buggles please :)

    Quote from hoboman27

    But you can not disagree with me about the impact of hacks?

    Is that a question?

    Quote from hoboman27

    Would you be kind enough to give me the links? you said "see below" on the actual expert views, but probably forgot to link those interviews. It would be great to read those, more official information is what the community need.

    I assumed you'd actually read any press releases about the game for the past... ever.

    This could take a while.

    Diablo Beta Press Event

    This, honestly, has just about everything though. I will refer to it repeatedly.

    OP:
    Here are my problems with the current skill system...


    No skill trees
    Access to all skills
    Skill swapping with no penalty

    All of these are answered in one QA question:


    Official Blizzard Quote:



    Q: I’m sure there’s a lot that went into it, but could you just kind of give a cliff notes version of what brought about the decision to fully remove skill points? I know one of the great benefits of it is it’s very easy to interchange and you’re not dedicated to one set path. And obviously with that, I guess there’s no more skill reset with no skill points?

    A: When we put the game out into internal alpha, we had the system that we’ve shown previously at Blizzcon which is where you had 7 slots, you put skills in those slots and assigned skill points (mumble mumble). What we found was, the UI was essentially telling people “you should have 7 skills.” But the skill point system says to players, “if you really want to be optimum, you should dump everything into 1 skill or 2 skills.” We tried to fight that a little by having escalating caps on skills, but it didn’t really work. So the two things were fighting with one another and the result of what we were getting was not what we wanted, which was more skills than people generally had in D2. Our combat system is really based around having somewhere between 4-6 skills. The other side of it was, by popular demand, we put in respec. What we saw happening was players would get their starter attack skill and they’d put points into it, which was great because they didn’t do that in D2. Once they figured out the system, they said, “ooh, I shouldn’t put any points in these skills,” which is terrible. But what happened was that they’d level up and get to that next skill they want - they’d have Magic Missiles and they’d get to Arcane Orb and decide “I don’t want Magic Missiles anymore, I want Arcane Orb.” So they’d respec that early skill, take 5-6 points out of it, and mass dump them into Arcane Orb. And one, that’s a balancing nightmare, but more importantly, it felt really bad. It felt even moreso like the character was trivialized, because these points could be just massively pulled from one place to the other. So those things kind of warred against one another, so we thought, “what happens if we just take skill points out and just say, choose your skills, that’s what’s most important.” And that actually worked really well. What it revealed was kind of a further truth about how people play Diablo, and I kind of referenced it earlier, it’s not a game like WoW where you start with Fireball at level 1 and at level 85, you’re still using it. It’s possible to do that, to take a starter skill and make it viable end-game, especially with runes, but it’s not the instinct of what players do. Players want to level up to get to more powerful skills because they have that very finite window of skills, they want to respec and get into that big skill. A game like Borderlands actually has a great model, because their attacks are tied into items and you’re used to items cycling out all the time, so it feels really natural. But for Diablo, it felt really unnatural to be doing the activity that you wanted to do the most(??). So we altered the skill system to provide that to players: “you know what, you actually can switch out skills as much as you want. That’s the way you naturally want to play, so we’re going to let you do that.” However, a system still needs restrictions to make it compelling. The restrictions we put in was to cap that total number of skills, both as you level up, but also we even pulled the cap down a bit to six skills because 7 actually felt like people could kind of get everything they wanted, but at 6, they start having to make really hard choices about what to get. It seems like just a one skill difference, but it actually made a really big impact. So you combine that with having to choose from one of several different rune effects per skill and you start getting a lot of diversity in builds. And building those characters becomes really compelling, and that’s what we were going for. A system that has a really compelling build process to it. I realize this is not the cliff notes. The last thing I would throw out about this, and this is something that we always kind of had a pipe dream about that I think this last revision of the system actually might be the first skill system that we’ve ever done where the player’s first instinct is not going to be to go to a website and check out what their build is, and that’s wonderful. That’s what we want. We want players to discover within the playspace, make choices based on information, not just based on “well, this sounds good, I hope it works, but I never got a chance to try it out.” So that’s one of the advantages of the system.

    For those of you with short attention spans:

    -Skill points = mass dump into minimum number of skills. Most powerful skills, least fun gameplay due to lack of variety and interesting combos and synergies.
    -Skill trees aren't really that different, except you are forced to spend single points in prerequisites first. Interest and fun added: 0.
    -Respecs aren't nailed down yet, it's possible (and indeed looking likely) that after a certain level respeccing will require a regeant of some sort. But especially for low levels, free swaps are ideal for experimentation, which is fun with this many skill/passive/rune combos!

    Lack of connection with your character

    This is one of the most important aspects for me. You hardly look at your character screen because you don't really need to from what I've seen from all the D3 footage. Why would you? Stats are chosen for you, skills are unlocked for you. There doesn't seem to be a real DRAW to pull yourself toward your character. These factors are preventing IMMERSION, which is what video games are all about. A small analogy for you...Resident Evil. 1 and 2 specifically were survival horrors. They were scary. They were difficult, and you could get so screwed that you wasted your goddamned ink ribbons and couldn't save (thus heightening the tension and making you mad, both good things). Resident Evil 4 and 5 were great games, but they weren't quite the same. They took the "horror" out of survival horror by making it a shooting action game. Diablo 3 is doing the same thing to the origins of the series by making it less RPG, more action. No doubt it will be fun, but in the RPG world, this is absolutely unacceptable. You NEED to be tied to your character and not feel like you're playing Gauntlet at an arcade machine.

    This is all bullshit. I've watched plenty of these streams, people obsess over stats/gear/skills and switch things out and figure out numbers all the time. Just because you can't add points to things doesn't mean they aren't important. Gear modifies everything, skill choices are imperative, and everyone pays attention to this still.

    Some common rebuttals to these complaints of the new skill system:

    "If I screwed up in Diablo II, I had to make a new character."

    While this was true until respecs arrived, it isn't like it was difficult or "unfun" to make a new character. If you didn't know how to build a character (which is NO different from ANY other game with optimal builds), then you most likely wouldn't care if your blizzard did 80% the damage compared to the guy next to you.

    Character attachment, the thing the OP is so obsessed with, is the reason for respeccing. D2 characters were throwaway. Some people were OK with that significant of a time investment being tossed in the bin because of a misclick. The majority were not.

    "Runes will provide the customization and differentiation, as well as the setback to swapping skills."

    I don't buy into this. I've seen from the datamines, various panels, videos, so forth the general idea behind runes. While this will provide customization, it doesn't seem at this point that it would provide enough to have someone say "Yes, I'm a Hydra Wiz" or "Yes, I'm an Archon Wiz". Why is it so difficult to let the player decide what skills he wants to be powerful?

    This doesn't make sense. With skillpoints, you pick 2 abilities you want to be powerful. With the current system, you pick 6. Same deal, more versatility. Your skill loadout is very important, and does indeed distinguish you as a hydra wiz/whatever. Because you picked that skill, and skills that compliment it.

    It makes me think they don't know enough about the series to be able to make these kind of judgment calls. Note: In Diablo II, you have a powerful Charged Boltress or Teeth Necro. You are cool and unique. In Diablo 3, you have a Magic Missile Wizard. You're an outcast and should be ashamed.

    There are so many things wrong with this.

    1.) The creator knows more about the series than the player. This is not up for debate.
    2.) In D2 if you played those kind of classes you were playing a suboptimal build that wasn't really viable because of the nature of skill trees. Low tier skills are flat out worse.
    3.) What the hell are you basing your D3 comparison on? At least in D3 those kinds of weird builds are numerically viable because of proper scaling. The rest is smoke blown out of your ass.

    Some ideas for improvement...

    Re-introduce skill points at the very least, and give the option to allocate your stats manually.

    Allow the option for respecs.

    Allow skills to be powered past max level, as in Diablo II.

    Reconsider synergies

    1.) Terrible idea, for all the reasons everywhere.
    2.) There are probably going to be respecs of some sort, this isn't nailed down regardless, please actually read articles and releases.
    3.) That would require skill points, which are terrible.
    4.) Numerical synergies are boring. Actual skill synergies caused by the skills being good in combination with eachother are present and interesting.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Attrition and beta
    Quote from Tenhi

    If the Beta really only covers ~4-6h then the attrition will be fairly high, what is a good thing imho. Many diffrent testers lead to many diffrent opinions on things (and also many diffrent eyes will find bugs way faster imho). Leaving that aside it also allows many fans to enjoy the beta ;)

    ONE HOUR! ONE HOUR OF CONTENT!

    Quote from ErU

    Quote from Slayerviper

    I just wish runes were in the beta, it would apply infinite replay value to experiment with abilities and than expose the market with your findings ;)


    This kinda worries me, the biggest gameplay change in the game are runes, and they are not willing to test it?


    It doesn't matter if blizzard has a team of 3000 trained monkeys playing 24/7, thats not enough for a game of D3 caliber.

    Playtesters and QA testers are not trained monkeys. Playtesters are everyone from people who have never played D2 to people who have played tons who spend a great deal of time doing back and forth with the designers.

    QA testers are professionals who spend thousands of hours finding and cataloging bugs just so you don't have to spend 30 inconvenient seconds restarting the game occasionally.

    It kinda worries ME that you would hate on the people that make your games good before release. Did you ever wonder how the SC2 beta got so good and polished before the beta even started?

    Playtesters and QA guys do 99% of the work, the beta is almost entirely for fine tuning and mass hardware compatibility testing. You sir, are the monkey, required only to switch the game on in order to test server load capabilities and find out of it craps out on your system.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Ill leave this here
    Been posted, still as lame as before <_<
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Penny Arcade Burned Y'all


    I thought it was amusing that this came up in a PA strip after all the raging.

    Asking people to be online is what HITLER did!
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 4

    posted a message on Torchlight lovers hate diablo III?
    Yeah torchlight 2 was just the devs looking at the D3 videos and copying them.

    Torchlight 1 was a piece of shit ugly snore-o-thon, taking a step backward from D2 even. Torchlight 2 is them trying to rip of Diablo 3 and failing. The abilities look boring as shit, the graphical style is awful (WoW graphics without any sense of unity or purpose), and frankly, it's quite obvious why Blizzard fired all these people.

    :angry:

    But if you're into that sort of thing, to each their own! :lol:
    Posted in: Torchlight
  • 1

    posted a message on What have you been playing while you wait for D3?
    League of Legends, though I am pretty annoyed with Riot... Just got nothing else to play :ph34r:

    DOTA 2 WILL SAVE US.
    Posted in: Other Games
  • 1

    posted a message on Blizzard responds to Diablo III 'always online' complaint
    Quote from Psyxix

    And yet, they will still have their way. Looks like the SC2 debate all over again. In my case, I turned the page regarding that subject, it's their new business model and will remain as such as long as people will put up with it.

    Resistance is futile, Blizzard will corrupt you as much as the others, it will only take more time. The indoctrination process has already begun, you will be part of the system and obey The commands one day. Jay is yet another good jedi who gave in to the dark side, he serves his master now and ... soon(trademark)... you will too ^^.

    They have padded rooms for people like you :hammy:

    But no, that guy rubbing feces on the wall isn't a paranoid schizophrenic, he's just a free thinker! The man is just trying to shut him down!

    9/11 was an inside job! THE GOVERNMENT ASSASSINATED JFK!

    THE WORLD IS RUN BY THE ILLUMINATI! :ph34r:
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Blizzard responds to Diablo III 'always online' complaint
    I don't get why people are so hung up over this point.

    You are on the internet complaining about this, you clearly have an internet connection. It's such a minor hypothetical inconvenience for most people. Maybe my internet will go out at some point and I will feel like playing Diablo single player during that time. OH NO. NOT WORTH FIFTY DARRAH.

    Read a book.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on What made you decide to not buy Diablo 3 from recent news? (Poll)
    As the first person to actually vote for "I'm still buying Diablo 3," let me advocate for the changes made.

    1.) Skill points went out because they didn't play well. How many of you can honestly say that skill points were a perfect system? Did they add some special level of depth? Or did you just max out the two skills you wanted to spam, and then toss the rest in synergies and requirements that you didn't give a shit about?

    What's the point of degrees if everyone goes all or nothing?

    Further, why would you experiment if that meant wasting potentially valuable points on something you didn't want to max? You would have to create throwaway characters just to try things out.

    2.) On the subject of the cash AH: maybe if you didn't buy so many items from trading sites then this wouldn't have happened. It's the same reason why brick-and-mortar movie rentals went out of business. If you do things one way over and over, eventually that will become the norm.

    I'm not a huge fan of the cash AH, but y'all wanted to buy your items SO BADLY.

    But now Blizz hosts it, and you're mad!?

    At least this way those of us who want to earn items the old-fashioned way can make money off the people who don't. If I can make my 50$ back I'm playing for free!

    3.) IT'S 2011 GUYS. Being online isn't a big deal.

    It's the same old thing. If everyone played nice and stopped pirating games, maybe this wouldn't happen.

    Instead, Blizz opts for the most sane, rational response--an anti-piracy measure that works well and doesn't obstruct legit players very much (in fact, in a lot of ways the constant battlenet connection is a bonus).

    Would you prefer they only let you install three times, and then you have to buy it again?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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