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    posted a message on For all the haters
    Quote from def0

    I don't agree with your defination of cheating. To me, cheating is gaining in-game benefit without in-game effort.

    I can only consider a gold coin AH as a grocery store you mentioned, because gold coin is what you earn in game.

    Then you're operating on a different language, i'm afraid, because cheating, in the english language and in the context of this discussion is breaking the rules of the system to achieve something that you normally wouldn't be able to. It means bypassing the structure of the system, or it's intent, in a manner in which was not inherently apart of that system.

    For out of context definition of cheating refer here: Cheating

    Since the AH is built into the game, it's certainly not cheating.

    But I get that you're frustrated by the fact that your friend might buy a set of armor that took you months to find. Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean the system is broken. Ultimately your "friend's" decision doesn't affect you in anyway. The game still functions as intended.

    Quote from rexbo88

    Your just flatly throwing out that I want people to mess up when I said nothing about the respecing system at all. I'm quiet sure if you messed up with multi-point skills you could fix your problem as easily as with the one point system since they are giving out respecs for free, which I dont really have a problem with. I'm annoyed at the skill system with zero depth, where you don't need to think about which skill your putting your points into as you level, as they all increase with your level or gear. I like the old system because you choose which ability you want stronger each level, which is NOT the same as just having EVERY skill get better every level. The new system in no way supports a broader set of skill, if you are min maxing that is because that is the point to how useful it is to put a point into that ability. People only put one point into a amplify dmg because the amount of dmg bonus you got never changed, just the area it covered, that bonus does very little. If an ability like that gave increasing amounts of bonus dmg it would be worth putting more points into. Abilities like that are the only reason min/maxing exsist.

    Ok, so you don't want people to mess up - fine. But that's effectively the only difference between the new system and the old. Basically with the old system you would pick the skills you want to use and then apply the points appropriately to those skills. The strength of those skills would be dependent on your relative character level (number of points) and whether or not you choose to put points into a the skill. So, on a basic level, you have the option to make your characters skills weaker by choice. So the system you want is a system that allows routine mathematical mistakes.

    The customization your talking about is simply the option to make your characters suck more then others.

    In the new system you still have to choose which skills you want, but now you don't need to worry about which skills you want weaker then others. You just use all of your skills with the same amount of relative strength (your character level).

    The depth of the system isn't dependent on the allocation of the skill points. It's dependent on the active skills chosen and why. You still need to think about how each of the skills affect your build and how they will interact. That's not to mention the fact that you will have runes, gear and passive skills to deal with too.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on For all the haters
    Quote from rexbo88

    you basically just dismissed any constructive argument anyone has made simply because they arent happy with the changes.

    And your argument about skill-points makes no sense, as they put a cap on how many you could put into abilities, it wasnt like diablo 2 were you could slam them all into one skill. All the change did was make it so you put 1 point into a skill instead of spreading your points out between your 6-7 skills like you used to. And don't use min/max and a counter argument because even if people mix max into their skills all the same way, its the same as putting 1 point into each ability, because everyone is doing the same thing, but the other lets you make mistakes (which you could respec) and allows people to make more choices in their skills.

    Eh it wouldn't be the first time I've said it today, but what really is the difference between the skill system as it was and it is now?

    OK, so people can't make mistakes as easy, yet they have the opportunity to play a much broader set of skills more effectively. Oh noes. So basically you want the ability to click a button to apply skill points, instead of just having it do it for you automatically? People must really like pressing buttons. You want the opportunity for other people to "mess up" so you can feel like you have the best build for an internet minute. Really?

    EDIT:
    Quote from def0

    Quote from BobJobBob

    RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have

    The more threads I read, the stronger I feel that RMAH is the equivalent of cheating code in single player.

    People use them for the same reason, people defend them with the same words.

    Uh, I think they are inherently different. A cheat is something that gives you an advantage over a system or person that they cannot achieve otherwise. The AH is simply another way, (mind you not the *only* way as people seem to be implying) to get the same equipment you can by simply playing the game. It's just another trade system.

    But if we're into generalizing arguments for the sake of it, what you're basically telling me is that I'm "cheating" because I choose to shop at a grocery store instead of growing my own food. That sound about right?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Will Diablo 3 run better with a SSD?
    Quote from Apoc

    How do you not have load times? At some point you're going to have to load those resources. Do you mean like between Acts and such? I'm legitimately curious, not trying to troll here :)

    100% agreed. It can be fully optimized, but it still need to load something.

    IN any case the only benefit you're going to get from SSD is faster load times. You're game play won't really be affected. If you want to insure the best quality game play you're going to need a setup with good RAM, a good processor, a good graphics card and a good internet connection. Though, i'm sure most people already know that.

    EDIT:

    Oh, and your load times will be slowed down if you have a slower bus RAM, by the way, even if you have a SSD. All of that data still gets loaded into the RAM at the speed of the RAM bus.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Class Resources
    Quote from vexture

    Hello close future Diablo3 players,

    With all the resource systems announced officially. It seems as though there are many advantages and disadvantages to each class with these resources. Not 100% sure but I'm guessing each class may have a trait or passive that will cater to their resource (I know runes do such as reducing the amount). What I'm getting at is Barbarians use Rage and Monks use Spirit which both rely on attacking mobs to boost their power. That being said are these two classes going to be better in cases where there are A LOT of mobs that provide endless supply to their power where as Wizards, Witch Doctors, and Possibly Demon Hunters will only be able to make a great starting impact with a full orb of resource?

    Your thoughts...

    It's hard to say. I think that kind of stuff comes down to balancing before, during and after beta.

    My feeling is that you're probably right in that there will be a skill (or skills) that cater to the resources of each class, either extending or expanding it in some way.

    I'm also assuming gear will have a big impact on your resources as well.

    Lastly I suspect that the barbarian and monk will have a "minimum" resource pool that they keep around, so they can start into a battle with some of their skills (but that's speculation). To me, something like that seems like common sense, but who knows.

    Either way, i'm totally stoked to play the monk, myself!
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Which class will you play
    All of them.

    Monk first, I think. But i'll make a point to play all of them relatively quickly to see what I like the best.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on This is how Diablo 3 Should look
    Quote from astrix3980

    I just stumbled upon an awesome re -render of diablo 3. http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/diablo-fan-05.jpg

    I hope the game takes on some of these re renders. What do you all think?

    Well these are old news tbh from discussions long past. But I will say they don't much make a difference to me. I really like the way d3is looking. The changes don't look bad but I like to see varying environments and Color and don't think they impact the 'tone' Of the game. Besides if you really want change the settings on your monitor lol.
    Posted in: General Discussion (non-Diablo)
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    posted a message on Work Time?
    I'm usually up between 7:00 and 9:00, usually on the earlier side of that because of my daughter. I then make the long arduous trip up the stairs to my desk and work until anywhere from 15:00 to 20:00, depending on how well things went that day.

    I'm a web developer for a successful start up.


    Quote from Xtapolapacetl

    I'm up at 6:00 weekdays....and wife and I have a baby...so no later than 7:00 on weekends. (I'll never sleep in again)

    LOL - I hear you. We have another little one (boy) on the way due September 1st. My daughter is turning 2 in 2 weeks. We don't get nearly as much sleep as we did 2 years ago! :D
    Posted in: General Discussion (non-Diablo)
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    posted a message on We can't dance if we want to...
    That is exactly the issue. They are standing up for something that may seem small and silly now, but there is no telling where something like this may go. And yes, there are systems in place to abolish laws, it's worth pointing out that many of the major changes in American laws changed in response to protests. It's true that those changes were far more impacting and dire then dancing, but protests such as these are protected for that very reason - because they are effective catalysts of change.
    Posted in: Off-Topic
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    posted a message on Diablo 3 Followers Mechanics
    Quote from Butcher2011

    Quote from maka

    I say again: why is it that the followers being useless is better than them being essential?

    Well I don't want them to be useless but at the same time they should not either become essential in the end-game!

    I can understand a lot of reasons why you don't seem to support and like the current idea of the follower system and fair enough, I don't think it's perfect either. All I hope is that Blizzard will take their time and make these followers the best they can possibly be and so that in turn they will satisfy the majority of players and a broad range of said players.

    Here's hoping constructive criticism will make Blizzard change and look at things that are not so good and change them around to do what I just said and hopefully in the end this system will prove it's worth and not be just "useless", wasted development time or very essential for the end-game :P

    Why does it have to be one way or another? I'm not the first to say it but they could try and balance them into the game so they are usable at all difficulties. That doesn't mean they are essential to end game (they weren't in d2) but they were certainly another tool to be used. I'm sure it takes some work, yes, but I doubt it's beyond considering.

    I don't have much more to say on this that I haven't already earlier in the thread, but I'm getting the overall feeling that most people don't like this system the way it's currently implemented. There is a lot of negative feedback, whether or not it's constructive, on this and other threads and many other forums.

    But, if it comes down to having d3 sooner or waiting for a system like this to be revamped for another month, or whatever, I'd rather have the game as is. It's not a terrible system, just one that will be wasted on many players including myself.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Diablo 3 Followers Mechanics
    Quote from carnage665

    Quote from DieHardDiabloFan

    I'm usually on board with Blizzard's decisions, but making followers lame/useless past normal is moronic, and the reason they gave us for that is even more stupid. I'm not gonna play multiplayer just because my merc makes me want to play multiplayer. It didn't in D2 and it won't in D3, specially since it will be useless in hell. I really don't understand that decision.

    Exactly! I too cant understand why they made these choises? It's only a way of trying to force you into MP. You're being punished after normal difficulty if you dont go into MP. Blizz's first fail. Sorry to say this guys and i thought i never would says this.

    No, it's not really a "punishment" since you're not losing anything you wouldn't have normally. You're just not being helped any more. I argue there is a difference in that.

    Apparently they think they've done the right thing and, hey, it's their game to do what they want with. We wouldn't even have the joy of talking about it if it wasn't for Blizzard. Overall they're making great decisions, even if they missed the mark on this one (in my opinion). My only issue with the system is it seems sub-par compared to D2's merc system and I'm a bit surprised at that.

    I still can't wait until this game comes out so I can see how little sleep the human brain can work on. Between a new baby, a 2 year old, a tired wife, work and d3 I should get no more then 2-3 minutes of solid sleep a night. :P

    Quote from OmniNom

    This entire thread is full of lengthy posts explaining exactly why this system is flawed based on nonexistent evidence and conjecture, so I'll get right to the point.

    This system has been tested and iterated and retested by hundreds of people for thousands of hours already, before Alpha even started. Experienced Designers have been retooling and testing it and changing it again until it was damn near perfect, then improving it more. This is their job, and many of them have been doing it since before you put your grubby paws on Warcraft One.

    To second guess them, without having even played the game, is criminally stupid.

    If you wanted to keep your Follower until later in the game, that's different. Personal taste is one thing.

    If you're making judgments about the specific workings of a system you haven't used created by people who thought of every single thing you have already (and more) years ago, that's another thing entirely.

    Believe it or not, playing video games does not a Game Designer make.


    Wait, did you just slip a yoda-ish saying in there at the end? lol.

    I have to point out one issue on your statement above. You don't have to be knowledgeable about how a system is implemented to be knowledgeable on how it should work. I buy a car and I might not know *how* it works, but I know that when I push the gas pedal it should go, the break pedal and it should stop, the wheel makes it turn, etc.

    The same applies to most things in life. The way things work is far more complicated then the interfaces that are used to control them. So to assume that we (we being a broad term for those of us who are discussing the follower's system) know nothing of how the system should or could work is pretty bold.

    Oh, and believe it or not, being an avid gamer is a requirement for a lot of game development positions for a reason.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Diablo 3 Followers Mechanics
    Quote from zerg4hire

    Quote from Jackzor

    Really? You make all those assumptions based on a follower system designed for new players? Of course you're not going to find it useful. Its essentially a tutorial. That doesn't mean it has no place in the game.


    Blizzard has spent 5~6 months recording the voices, creating a story line, creating a 3D model, animating, creating skills, animating skills, balancing the skills. Do you really think we need a complex system as this to get people to join a "multi-player" game?

    If they wanted to make a tutorial, they would've made a better tutorial alright?
    There are tons of better ways to make a tutorial and implement it in the game that would "ALWAYS" be useful. Meaning a small tip video or words from the townspeople saying "Join forces with your fellow fighters ! You put yourself in danger by fighting alone !"

    Having all this work and system done just so that they'll be completely out of the content (once we are lvl 60) is what makes it a huge waste of time on blizzard's part.
    They could have used their time more efficiently and effectively by creating a more "get to the point" tutorial that encourages people to play co-op.

    These followers are getting their own story line, lol....
    Little too much for a tutorial? It makes you wonder these followers are almost complex enough to be their own class themselves...
    Too much work done for too little benefit.


    oops, forgot to type anything on my post.

    I have to disagree with the "time estimate" here. As you can see by my post above i'm not all that happy with this system either, but generally you can't get an overall feel for the effort on a project in the amount of time it takes from start to finish but rather the "man hours" it took. Because it could have taken 6 months from start to finish, but that doesn't mean everyone was working on that one thing the whole time. Heck, it may have only been something like 60 man hours, which is a few hours for several people across weeks of time.

    Since we don't have *any* of this information it's clear your statement is purely conjecture.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Diablo 3 Followers Mechanics
    Quote from Jackzor

    If you think its gimmicky and useless sure. But its a tutorial that also has value in the story and quests it provides, while also potentially bringing more people into the online community. So no I don't think its bad at all.

    Then why not just go and create a "tutorial" system instead of taking a system from the previous game and hacking it apart. I have yet to be disappointed in something blizzard has done with D3, but I'm definitely in that crowd on this one. Overall that's a great track record and I'll be playing this game the day it comes out, but I feel shorted on the follower system. I was expecting something as cool as the D2 mercs at minimum, not something 1/3 as cool.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Diablo 3 Followers Mechanics
    Huh? They can't be used when other people are in the game? Really??

    That is a pretty major change from D2 and one i'm not particularly happy with. I guess it's hard to understand how the game is going to be balanced against the much smaller party sizes, but I'll miss having a bunch of characters with all of their hirelings running around with them...

    Overall the followers sound cool, but it seems odd that we can't have them with other people in the game. I'm convinced I won't even really use my followers that much because I intend to play with my friends. It's basically a game system that I won't get to play with nearly as often...
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Your Custom Gaming PC
    I built my current system back in 05 and it still suites my needs and wants. I upgraded the graphics card once, but have done no other performance enhancing upgrades since. I'm sure if I had the cash to throw around i'd upgrade my system more often, but I've never felt like it was necessary just to play a certain game. I'm able to play everything to date smoothly, without issue. Sometimes it seems odd to me that people spend so much money on systems so often.

    That being said i'm considering building another system in the next year or so. More because I need another system to run a web server here at the house, not because I feel I need a more powerful gaming rig. I'll likely just build one from the ground up and i'm aiming at around $2,000.00. I'll reconfigure this one for my wife and take hers for my impromptu web server. I fully expect my next investment to last me just as long (6+ years).

    When I built this system back in 2005 it cost me about $1,400.00 and then I upgraded the graphics card a year and a half ago for another $190.00.

    *shrug*
    Posted in: Off-Topic
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    posted a message on May 9th Conference Call
    Quote from Cyber_Cheese

    Quote from Dolaiim

    what the hell, i started this thread. why the fuck does skarin1993 have the first post.

    can i get a moderator to PM me ASAP.

    Edit: I just realized they re-named another thread and folded my post into this one. And I don't like that.

    Anyway, to confirm, The soonest we'll see the external beta is July.

    threads got merged dude, they were all on the same thing

    kinda depressing listening to them talk about WoW like a cash cow, even though i never liked the game, but wow activision
    that spyro game is SUCH A NEW LOW

    LOL wow *is* a cash cow. This is a company first and foremost and a publicly traded one at that. Don't let all this talk about quality and making sure it's right get you thinking it's just for us. Don't let it fool you. They want quality products so that they can make more money. The balance sheet is what matters most before anything else.

    I don't mean to put that in a negative context either. That is what companies are for and I'm more then happy to let them make the most of their own hard work because, at the end of the day, it's still a job for these people. I work for the paycheck before anything else, that's for sure.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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