DiabloFans

I remember a quote from somewhere on the tolerance thing, which kind of echoes Slayer's point.

"If a person comes into your house and start pissing on your rug, you can show tolerance and bear with it.

Or you can punch his face.

Guess how most people would react."

Quote from succubus_queen

Why would "we" keep religion as a society? How about... atheists have no more right to bully people into sharing their beliefs than any religion has, and harassing and discriminating against people based on their beliefs is basically becoming what you have mocked?

How exactly are atheists bullying religious people? You keep inventing so many far-fetched scenarios, it's getting tedious. Atheists have a lack of beliefs.
You want them to impose their LACK of beliefs? Oh man...
It's not called bullying when you tell a child Santa Claus doesn't exist. Or when you tell them fairies or dragons don't exist and it doesn't make sense to base your life on them.
Atheist don't have any belief system that will require specific discriminatory law to be in place. Please enlighten me on the oppression of atheism on those poor religious people?
When you tell a person not to use cocaine and make it illegal because it can have serious detrimental effects, are you discriminating and bullying them?
I do hope you grasp the point I am trying to make.
If you think ridiculing their beliefs is bullying, then you are in denial of the present reality of who currently the majority are in the world and who are actively oppressing who.
Religion simply doesn't deserve the respect it is crying for. They haven't done enough to earn it.

Quote from succubus_queen

Edit: Also, thanks for helping with my point that religion does naturally change with the times to survive, and that in this modern world, that involves becoming more inclusive and tolerant. That was most helpful of you.

I think you may be under the assumption that I am here to win an argument. I couldn't care less about that. I care only for facts or solid evidence and discussion around these.
Of course, religious people are evolving. You think I would deny such fact just to make sure I have the upper hand?
This would be ludicrous and unbecoming.
However what you are conveniently ignoring is most religious texts have not changed. Within their depths are the passages that condones discrimination and harm to other fellow human beings.
Countless times throughout the past century we've seen groups going back to these outdated philosophies and wrecking havoc as a result.

In the not-so-far future, when we will be faced with diminishing resources, I can easily see how this will turn out to be an excellent reason for mass genocide if the beliefs persist in such a strong fashion as it does today.

Trust me, you have not contemplated the matter as completely and objectively as you would have liked to. And admittedly my stance has been too aggressive so I do apologize for that. That's just my personality trait however.

Look, I am not even trying to make religion seem like the big bad guy here. As a matter of fact, It isn't.
People will use any means to gain certain advantages. That's how many of us seem to be built. Lenin russia didn't need any religion. However they used an ideology almost no different to any religion whereby questioning and critical thinking was not allowed and even less, having a different view point.

Whether it be religion, color or gender (among many others) people will look for differences to create conflict.

I'm simply very much to putting one down enough so as to give people one less reason to behave this way.

@succubus
You just rehashed your fairy tale points. So I am not gonna bother replying to all of it again.

Your evidence is laughable. Not a thing I mentioned in my previous post got through to you.

Now let alone Muslims or every one of them, you think many people can actually afford to be extremists?
Do you even know what it entails to be one?
The methodist church allows gay clergy? Do you know what sustains an organized religion? You think a religion will just quietly die or let the competitor hog all potential members?
Have you even considered these questions before pronouncing your fairy tale verdict?

Genital mutilations in tribal areas?? LOL.
You my dear should perhaps try and get in touch with reality a bit more. Your stance is typically motivated by an obvious lack of knowledge and actual happenings.


In the end it comes down to this-
Do people need religion to be good?
The obvious answer is no.

Can religion motivate people to be good?
The answer is obviously yes.

Can religion motivate people to be irrationally cruel and harm and discriminate others?
The answer is sadly yes.

Now why would we keep something of a double-edged sword in our society when it's not necessary?

The only thing we to get over is our irrational fear of death, then we happily rid ourselves of religion. Until then it will persist I am sure.
Ridiculing it is one of the legitimate means to mount the opposition to help people realize there is another way and certainly helps us make sure any religion is being given preferential treatment.

@Graphics- Oh man, I sympathize.

I had a partial hamstrings tear a couple years ago because I didn't properly warm up before my sprint track. Spent 3 weeks without being able to walk unless with crutches.

Anyway have fun with pulsed ultrasound, ice and rest.

@succubus
You shouldn't have mentioned my name. I now feel compelled to call you on your nonsense.

Quote from succubus_queen

I'm sorry for spamming. This is maybe my last post of the day though.

I just wanted to say that on the religious thing, up until recently I have had more of a Bll Maher, Nekcrodrac view on things.

But right now, my Mom is very sick. I don't want to get all into it here, because it's too personal. But seeing the hope and comfort that christianity has given both my parents during this period, itis not something I could ever want to take away from them. It's been eye opening for me. You have to see people as individuals. Not as a giant church.

And what exactly is that Bill Maher, Nekrodrac view on things?

That religion is not above ridicule and it should be ridiculed?

Sorry but you don't get special treatment just because you are in the majority.
If someone can find peace in something that is the very cause of so much discrimination, advocate death/ostrasization in case of apostasy, willingly teaching creationism to children as fact or encourage genital mutilation in newborns, then I am truly at a loss.

Maybe it's time we look for peace and comfort in something far more peaceful and less ignorant for the next generation?

Also why are did you even mention taking away their religion? How do you actually do that? As far as I know, it's impossible. All that actually does happen is people feeling exceptionally butthurt when their beliefs are ridiculed. And doesn't that speak volumes of their faith and conviction, eh?

Quote from succubus_queen

This!! I'm taking these few lines out of context but it's so well phrased. This is why I think Umpa's rant was jsutified. Because just throwing childish insults at a religion isn't meaningul dailog. I know that religious people have done some terrible things in history in the name of their various religions. But to generalize, stereotype and disrepsect an entire group, because of the misdeeds of a subset of that culture is wrong. We have to accept that no one has all the answers, and they are entitled to arrive at theirs. When specific religious groups start undermining your own rights or attacking your culture, you aim your concerns at the people involved, not just religion in general.

For example, if religious groups in Tennessee are attacking the rights of lesbians and gays, you take your fight to them, and objectively discuss the issues. Every issue has to be handled objectively and individually. Just throwing insults at religion in general only makes individuals associated with those cultures feel more threatened, more angry, and makes them less willing to open their eyes. The goal is not to make them aggree with you, but to have tolerance and recognize your right to disagree. Such things are best handled very delicately.

This is so fairytale-like, it makes me cringe. I also know this is the new cool and popular position to adopt.
Live and let live. That's an excellent deal as a matter of fact but it's only relevant if you have been living in an isolated cave for the past 30 years with no contact to any societies and completely oblivious to what's been happening around.

But honestly, ever heard of tackling the root of the problem?
I would remind you these individuals have been bred on the doctrines and philosophies of these religions and they are taught to regard them as true. Just like if you are in the lowest caste in India, you are literally condemned to a shit existence for the rest of your life because you are taught this is only life you can aspire to.
Because you know, if you are good, you will get a better life next time when you reincarnate and blablabla. All the pretty tales to keep them under the foot of the higher castes.

A lot of irrational behavior is almost entirely guided by a religious belief system.
Otherwise why would someone get their panties in a twist if two consensual adults are having sex in the privacy of their own lives?

Regarding your 'solution'-
Why would you *only* take the issue to these people? That's extremely short-sighted and temporary.
What would happen to the next batch of people who are brought up on the same corrupt values?

Your way only caters for one group for a short amount of time. I would rather go for a long term/ permanent solution to this illness.

You think someone posting a pic of zombie jesus with caption of 'grow up if you are offended' is looking for a meaningful dialogue?
Anyway I already talked about this stuff in the previous post. Why is it needed and why it is no less worse than the preacher move. Reptar's rant was far from justified and went beyond the actual criticism of what he saw as wrong, which is why I replied to it. No atheist I know are going out of their way to help you lose your religion. They are too busy getting the maximum out of that one life they have.

Quote from Umpa

Ok, so I have a network of artists on facebook since I am one as well. I don't know why but some of them seem soooooo snoooty and pretentious.

This girl posts this picture of a zombie jesus with a caption mocking Christianity. And she titles the pic on facebook as "If this offends you, you need to grow up"

Ok, I may not call myself a christian but my grandparents are, and thats offensive to them. So it's fucking offensive to me. Who are they to say what should and should not be believed? What a fucking asshole. I just hate it so much. Why do people feel the need to tell people that what they believe in is wrong? Be it Christians or Muslims or Atheists. WHHYYY do people have to be such douche bags about what they THINK they KNOW. When really, they don't know shit. For all they know a zombie jesus did save humanity as we telepathically pray to him. Hell if I know. Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant. What matters is that I'm not a fucking asshole to people for believing whatever the hell they want.

If someone is a super devout christian who feels the need to preach to everyone because of their religion, fine I can deal with that. I'll just tell them no and make them leave. But then there's the atheist who doesn't believe any of it, and just HAS to tell everyone that they are childish and wrong. Whhhyyyyyyyy? Why instigate? Why be such a douche bag? They're preaching just like the christians.
Only, it's basically worse because they don't have a set belief telling them to preach others in the face. They do it purely out of self gratification.

Ok, so you're atheist. Sweet. You probably believe that math and science rules the universe. If that's the case, shouldn't it be obvious that we're a developing species with superstitious beliefs ingrained into our minds? Shouldn't it also be obvious that this type of preaching is not helping anybody?

Idk...It's almost as if I expect more intelligence from an atheist. but in return I just see a bunch of douche bags.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST ATHEISM. MY PROBLEM IS WITH ARROGANT PEOPLE.

I think a deterministic outlook should currently accompany atheistic outlooks. If that's the case there should be no need for proselytizing about how dumb people are for being religious.

I agree that that kind of approach is unlikely to yield any positive result...for certain persons.
However you are being massively ignorant into thinking that these people(advocating such a position) actually want a positive change. Fact is most of them don't.
They are expressing their frustration and since you seem to be rooting for one camp, you will tend to ignore how the other team plays the game.

I find it comical when people say I am going to hell for not believing in their god(s), but others might easily be annoyed with that attitude and see it as veiled insult into how being good matters little as compared to believing in some-thing/one specific.
They can find it an insult to be considered as having no moral code because they don't follow a certain deity.

Sure, most semi or very religious people won't openly hold such a position because it actually is more offensive than anything an atheist will ever say.
Why? Because one side claims to have knowledge where they actually don't. It can be argued here that it is not knowledge but faith and belief. However, this linguistic distinction is hardly relevant since this is a philosophy that they live their life by and sadly, due to their numbers, have gained ways to heavily influence legislation. Essentially they are making it your life's concern as well.

So yeah, just too bad for homosexuals and women needing abortions.

Also to correct a little misconception you got going there, atheists are not claiming any knowledge whatsoever. Their position is that faced with the lack of concrete evidence, there is no reason to believe in a particular deity.
This is how we live our lives on a daily basis. We gather evidence and cues to influence our thinking and decisions. Just like a person who likes you will most likely leave cues that they do.
The successful interpretation of the latter accounts for informed decisions that is most likely to yield a positive outcome. Simple, basic and ingrained human behavior.

Religious beliefs defies such a pathway.
It relies on miracles(which requires a suspension of the natural order) and indoctrination.

So to get back to the offending business-

Religious- you have an eternity of suffering awaiting you after death and you are immoral.
Atheist- you are stupid to believe what you do.
(Disclaimer: I am not saying it is the position for everyone, only the offensive types)

If you had adopted a different approach to this issue with some perspective(something you definitely have, especially as an artist) and some tolerance, you might have considered the possibility that the girl you are insulting here is rebelling against that ugly stance endorsed by most major religions.
But you instead choose to be offended.

I also notice that sad double standard.
So a preacher coming to you, proposing salvation and redemption is ok, but an atheist calling out these silly beliefs is not?
Both are equally arrogant.
I've never had one preacher approach me and ask me what good I have done and whether I am happy with my life. They just want me to convert so they can have continued funding for their organizations. They do not really care just like some atheists probably do not care they offend or not.

A few centuries back, you might have successfully gotten that girl ostracized or tried as a witch and burnt at a stake instead of being just offended.
Some places still have heavy discrimination against non-believers or people from a different belief system.
So am perfectly happy with anyone offending religion and religious people. If there ever was a fair and just God, he would probably say they deserve it.

I will go one step further and say it's a necessity.

So we never lose sight of the rights we fought for and obtained as a civilization after centuries of oppression from organizations bent on the suppression of knowledge and science that might challenge their beliefs. Even more relevant now, especially when powerful lobbying and money-driven religions are threatening to set us back in all the progress achieved.

Maybe it doesn't mean much (or will be offensive) to a comfortable middle-class American. But for a poor African coming across such opposition to these old beliefs, maybe they will consider that perhaps condoms may not be as bad as the Pope says they are. Maybe they can help, not only a protection against AIDS but a good birth control measure.
Maybe this is the way out of poverty.


So please, before you jump the gun, take a step back and evaluate the situation in a fair manner.
Just because one is direct and the other have several hidden/disguised layers of ill-intent is no excuse for your careless rant.

Randomness!!!




New anime kicks major ass!
I like very few old ones.

Also Kenshin anime is meh- crappy animations, crappy voices.The manga however is awesome.
I think the only ones I found where the anime was superior to the manga were GTO and Shaman King.

Left with the difficult choice of putting the dying cat out of its misery, i took my fork out of my lunchbox and stabbed it in the heart.

Amen.

Quote from succubus_queen

I have issues.

It's good your critics in the 'crazy waiting for D3 thread' didn't read this or you would have been treated to an in-depth psycho-bable analysis.
Not that I think there's anything wrong in wanting positive attention but it would seem the more this attention is focused on appearance, the harder it must be to age...or being ignored. I suppose that's why cosmetics and all these anti-aging stuff sell like crazy.

Also the Borat anthem that played for Kazakhstan was just...unreal.
They apparently got the Serbian national anthem wrong too at that event.

And the case in Syria is just bloody depressing.

Edit- Awesome comic, Siay.

Quote from VegasRage

This is hilarious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kFGxH4wrs4&feature=related

So much win in this.

Absolutely!

I wonder if you can kill bunnies in D3.
I know you could squash some bugs in D2 by walking over them...

God of War may be the only game where I feel sorry for the enemies on my path.

The following contains major spoilers for the game(god of war 3).

Quote from Trannsvaal

Quote from Nekrodrac

Quote from JaundiceBunny

You're a filthy whore. Now offend me.

Sorry mate, Trannsvaal nicked your place. Quota done for the day.

Oh come on. Now you can't count either? What's wrong with you?

Greek is so broke he also can't afford to have any logic it seems.

Did i say all the persons to be offended have to be on dfans?
Poor broke Greek.

On a more serious note now,
The matter of whores or sex worker.

They may be contributing way more to society than many of its members. Sexual gratification is still regarded as too much of a taboo and thus a typical medieval(or rather prehistoric) mentality would have us think that since it cannot be openly discussed, it is...'bad'.

Sex has only recently begun to leave this retrograde mindset. Not soon enough according to me, especially when STDs are getting very much out of control.

And it's so easy to be a judgmental prick and consciously overlook the complexity of a problem while casting/putting a derogatory tag on a group.
Prostitution is illegal( in most countries) with consequential health hazards(violence being one of them). The social taboo compounded with the illegality of it have made human trafficking, sexual slavery and unregulated brothels disgustingly flourishing businesses.
So ya...nobody goes to the sex worker. Riiiggghtt...
We are in denial of our own nature/desires and would rather be seen as saintly figures at the expense of the basic rights of other human beings.

Anyway here we are, calling whores filthy in such a casual manner while at the same time craving for sex most of our lives.
Pathetic I say.

Quote from Trannsvaal

Quote from Nekrodrac

Quote from Trannsvaal

And at least in Greece, whores are a lot dirtier than my mouth... Could wash em cat style tbh, if I had no regard for my well being!

So says the broke Greek who won't even be able to afford a date, let alone a whore.



This is fun. I need to offend two more people and then my quota is done for the day.

So, two more than the number of actual friends you got...

The broke Greek is so broke he can't even afford a sense a humor.

Quote from JaundiceBunny

You're a filthy whore. Now offend me.

Sorry mate, Trannsvaal nicked your place. Quota done for the day.