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    posted a message on Build gone after creation?

    Ah, didn't know that...I did have a link to an Excel file in OneDrive in the build, so that may have been the problem. Are there workarounds for that?

    Posted in: Site Suggestions and Questions
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    posted a message on Build gone after creation?

    I've tried to create a new build about 5 or 6 times over the past 2 days. In all cases the build seems to have been created (the page with it shown, I can get the url from the navigation bar....latest attempt was http://www.diablofans.com/builds/69691-2-4-mirinae-monk) but when I try to edit or navigate to the build in another tab / browser, I get a 'Not found' page. What's going on?

    Posted in: Site Suggestions and Questions
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.
    Quote from iribuya»

    So can I use this build in the next patch and beat GR 50 or not?

    I don't see a dedicated Devouring Arrow build beat GR 50. For rift progress, you need to deal area damage. Devouring Arrow cannot do this effectively. It's a great single-target killer, but that won't get you past 40 or so (where a single Devouring Arrow can 1-shot 3-4 targets).


    As to the Discipline loss of Buriza...you lose 12 * 15% = 180% bonus. Between other gear and skills, you're probably around 90 total Discipline. 90 / 102 = 0.88, or an overall 12% DPS loss. The overall bandwidth for the lost damage due to no Discipline on Buriza is probably in the 10-15% DPS loss.


    As to Etrayu...the 50% Multishot bow eats it alive. UE in 2.3 will be Multishot focussed and 50% IAS is a much larger bonus than 20% elemental bonus as a primary affix.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    I agree with Gielo, that matches my observations from working with Buriza / Cirri / Devouring in the past with regards to flight time.


    If you can spare the quiver slot, use Cirri and Devouring Arrow is a great single-target finisher. The first hit is 1.0 * base dmg (155%), second hit is *1.7 (cumulative 2.7), third is *2.4 (cumulative 4.1). That's 635% weapon damage per shot guaranteerd. The statistics to get the actually expected damage per shot is somewhat more advanced statistics, but simplifying a bit by capping the maximum amount of hits at 5, a single Devouring Arrow without Cirri is expected to deal an average 1048% weapon damage, while a 25% Cirri increases that number to 1346% weapon damage. For a single shot of a generator, that's rather good; a double-hit by an Arsenal shot (2 * 360%) with Ballistics (300% * 2 - I believe only 1 rocket per shot can hit a target) deals 1320% weapon damage, a little less than Devouring with Cirri. We're not factoring in the new belt there, so Devouring has its uses. I don't feel the increase Cirri gives (1048% to 1346% is worth giving up DML for). If we take the belt into account (assuming a multiplicative bonus from it) it's still 1677% expected single target damage per shot, which beats Arsenal with Ballistics at no cost.


    Devouring Arrow with the new belt and Buriza bonus on cube seems a good F/R activator + damage mitigator (new bracers) while Multishot is main damage dealer on groups. When facing a single target, Devouring becomes the prime and Multishot to activate F/R.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    Ok, just did some testing with Bane of the Stricken and the results prompted me to delete the build I posted around it. I tested Hungering Arrow, Grenades and Rapid Fire. Conclusion: each casting of a skill only applies 1 stack of Bane of the Stricken. If Hungering Arrow pierces 4 times, it's 1 stack. Multiple grenade hits, 1 stack. DoT for 3 seconds, 1 stack. Channeling skills, 1 stack per 'attacks per second'. Whatever the skill, the number of stacks after 5 minutes of continues fire (button held down) are roughly the same and in the expected range. At 1.43 attack per second, around 430 stacks are expected, translating to a +380% damage bonus in my case (level 9 gem) or a 4.8 multiplier (dmg after 5 minutes / initial damage). The numbers found in my test samples were within 10% of this multiplier so I don't have a reason to assume the number of stacks being applied is different from '1 per skill use' / '1 per attack animation by the character'.


    So why did I delete the build concept? Simply because Bane of the Stricken is not good enough. To equal a tier 50 Bane of the Trapped (30% bonus), 23 stacks are needed. If you manage 3 attack per second, that's 7.7 seconds constant fire. Of course, during this time, you'll deal less damage then BotT would add, to break even on total damage, it's double that duration, so over 15 seconds of continuous fire at 3 attack per second to break even. Now in practice, this won't happen. More realistic numbers make it (much) worse, so you'd be looking at fights nearing the minute per monster so beat BotT. I'm no high-tier greater rift specialist (my celing will be in the 50-55 range), but even in very high tiers I doubt you'll spend minutes fighting a monster, making Bane of the Stricken useless. Obviously, a build centered around this gem isn't viable and unfortunately, Hungering Arrow does not benefit Bane of the Stricken any more than every other skill (except if there's some skill Bliz overlooked that can apply multiple stacks with a single casting).

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    I got full UE and 2 ancient hand-xbows last night and ran some tests. I didn't find the new belt yet, but I don't see Hungering Arrow become center-piece in any 2.3 build. I'll run some additional tests later today on Bane of the Stricken to see if I can find out why it was completely underwhelming. It's not leveled up yet (0.89% bonus) and just over 2 attacks per second but fights on T10 took a very long time...the problem there is that the stacks get spread out over the mobs, thus leading to a very slow average stack buildup.


    I'll try to run some more tests later today. I want to verify the buildup on single target and I want to see how stacks building goes when using Spray of Teeth (if BP is up, that's 3-4 area procs per shot) and perhaps test with Bolas with quiver, Ess and the bow. That should give heavy clustering and due to Buriza bonus 3 area explosions per shot.


    I'm afraid that for DH, it'll just be 2.2 builds with some tweaks.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    The numbers for Simplicity's are actually worse; with the numbers you give, the actual increase is (100+45+60+100+50) / (100+45+60+100) = 355/305 = 1.16. In other words, the 50% Simplicity adds 16% overall damage....given no other class A buffs (which isn't the case, since UE and Steady aim are class A, for example...include them and the overall increase already drops below 15%).


    I'm aiming for a Broken Promises version of this build and hand-xbow is then far superior since you get more attack speed (= faster BotS stacking) and 130% more CHD (which is more output when Broken Promises is up, which is more often because of the higher attack rate).


    For the defensive gem, Molten is normally the first choice since it gives you a shield (prevent 1-shots) and extremely high Life per second. With the bracers (DR%) and Boar (more DR%), Moratorium is a pretty good general mitigation option, especially if you take Leech as a passive. Then there's always Esoteric and if youre good at avoiding elite effect, Mutilation Guard is good against Assassins and stuff.


    I'm actually considering dropping Multishot from the setup for Chain Gang for the CC, so I can run BotT with it. DH doesn't have a reliable long-duration CC available, but Chain Gang is reasonable (more than 1 second duration and multiple targets, especially with Buriza bonus)

    Edit: the Cold Grenade is probably a better option. That leaves a slowing ground effect for 3 seconds and is also a cold skill. Grenadier as one of the passives is interesting then for the 20% increased chill area.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    If all 3 gem slots are available for offensive gems, by far the best will be BotT / BotS / Zei...given that you get CC somewhere. If you have no source of CC, BotT / Iceblink / BotS is the best offensive option.


    When 1 gem slot is used defensively, it becomes tricky. If CC is available, BotT / BotS is best. BotS / Zei should be competitive with BotT / Iceblink, which is better will be situational, where BotS / Zei will gain the upper hand in prolonged fights (read: greater rift pushing).


    Simplicity won't keep up, due to Depth Diggers. Since they're in the same buff class, they are additive so if we disregard everything else in class A, Simplicity's actual increase with Depth Diggers bonus is 2.25 / 2.00 = 1.125, a 12.5% DPS increase is the most favorable situation (read: no other class A buffs). Since most of the DPS buffs and monster debuffs are also class A, the actual gain from Simplicity's is most likely below 10%. Zei is in it's own class, so it's multiplicative. At 20+ yards, it will easily beat Simplicity. Since both UE and Steady Aim require 20+ yards, it's pretty clear-cut.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.
    Quote from Gielo»

    Are you sure Cull is just additive? because the diablo planner shows it as multiplicative.

    You can see this when you hover over your skills when using the planner.


    All in all its alot of damage to make up, it would be better to keep bane of the trapped and cull the weak, and somehow find a way to chill them with some legendary or something.

    I haven't tested it myself, but in general skill bonusses are a class A buff and everything in class A is additive within the class. It's easy to test though; craft a low damage bow, only equip the bow and Depth Diggers and shoot something and note the damage range. Then take Cull as a passive and shoot a slowed target (use something that only slows, no other debuffs...Caltrops for example). If the increase in damage is 20%, it's multiplicative with a skill bonus (a class A buff). If the damage is increase by 10% (2.2 / 2.0) it's additive with the skill bonus.


    If there's an effective way to apply an effect that allows BotT and Cull to work that doesn't cost a gem slot (like Iceblink does) that would of course be the best option.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.
    Quote from Joking101»

    The DH god Wudijo did indeed conclude that each pierce of Hungering Arrow applies a stack of Bane of the Stricken in one of this 2.3 videos.


    I'm not interested in running these tests, but I'm sure there is someone who will make it happen and we will find the most viable version of the build.

    Thanks for that reference, I've checked the video and he confirms what I hoped / expected. The build I propose should thus be competitive with Iceblink / Bane of the Trapped. Some things in the video made me reconsider the idea I posted before. I'd now take Ballistics as the 4th passive, since the missile hit adds a stack of Bane of the Stricken. For weapons, Nat's Slayer is traded for the seasonal The Demon's Demise since the Sticky Trap also adds a stack, allowing for quick stack buildup on tight packs due to the constant explosions.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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    posted a message on Hungering Arrow: The Ultimate Summary.

    As a long-time Buriza / Devouring fan, it's good to see 2.3 improves the build further.


    I don't have a geared DH on the PTR atm (been focussing on WD), so perhaps one of you could run these tests and let us know the results.

    Determine if pierces add Bane of the Stricken stacks
    • Craft the lowest level bow / xbow / hand-xbow possible
    • Remove all damage enhancers from gear (BotT, Iceblink, Zei, etc.)
    • Remove passives that conditionally enhance damage (Cull etc.)
    • Socket Bane of the Trapped
    • Use Molten / Esoteric / Mara's to be able to stand next to Belial for a few minutes
    • Shoot one Devouring at the time, ensure that no more pierces occur. Count the number of shots and record the damage.

    From this test, it should be quite easy to tell if each Devouring shot adds one stack or 3+ stacks; after 50 shots, the bonus is either 50 * BotS bonus % or 150-200 * BotS bonus %. Compare that the last hits to the first and we'll know the answer.

    Determine if the Bane of the Stricken bonus is multiplicative with Zei's bonus

    Test setup for this test is pretty much the above situation but run the test with 1 free socket and a leveled Zei's in inventory: It's easies to stand on the raised platform at the side, as close to the edge of your screen as possible.

    • Build up a decent number of stacks
    • Record the damage of the latest hits
    • Put Zei in the socket
    • Shoot again and record the damage
    • Determine base damage by doing a new run, standing in the same spot but with Zei and Bane of the Stricken removed from gear
    • Put Zei in the socket again to determine the exact Zei bonus from the spot used for testing

    Common wisdom tells us to use Iceblink + Bane of the Trapped. While this is a solid choice, perhaps Zei's + Bane of the Stricken can be competitive. Iceblink + Bane of the Trapped gives us a bonus in the 30-40% range. The 10% Iceblink crit chance bonus is a bit harder to figure in since it's overall boost depends on the critical hit chance the character already has (but the higher it is, the less the Iceblink bonus adds). Let's say on average it's a 5% overall increase, making them both a 40-50% overall DPS increase. Now if Zei's and Bane of the Stricken are multiplicative (which is likely), assuming a 25% bonus from Zei's (mid-range), a 15-20% Bane of the Stricken stack would rival Iceblink / Bane of the Trapped. When looking at long range, a 7-10% Bane of the Stricken bonus would be sufficient. Depending on the result of the first test, this could be interesting (or not). If Bane of the Stricken stacks are build up with 3-4 stacks per shot, this would be 4-5% damage increase per shot so 7-10% would be 2 shots, 15-20% just 4 shots. At 2 ApS, that's just 2 seconds to rival the BotT / Iceblink bonus, 4 seconds to surpass the overal DPS increase. Of course you'd still need to compensate for Cull, but let's remember Cull is a class A damage increase, so it is additive with Depth Digger, Simplicity's, the UE 20%, etc. This makes the overall DPS increase in this setup around 6-8%. This would be compensated by just 2 shots per the above example.


    Great advice on the Ananoch amulet btw. I already use that amulet in greater pushes with my WD due to the 1-shot nature of Frozen Pulse and the carpet bombing of Frozen champions, having it negate RD is icing on the cake.


    Also a note on Cirri. While it is very good, it may not be mandatory. There is a maximum flight distance on Devouring Arrow. So when you're shooting long-range (which should be common if you want to live as a DH), even with 100% pierce chance, you wouldn't get an infinite amount of pierces. From my observations in the Buriza 80% days, when at long range, flight distance is capped at around 4-5 pierces. Since Buriza gives us 2 free pierces, we have at least 3 hits. Given the base pierce chance, that's what we'll see most of the time. Cirri pushes that number up to 4 hits most of the time. This is definitely a major upgrade since it's more than 33% damage per shot and faster Bane of the Stricken stacking. However, the alternative is not without merit. I'd go with Nat's Slayer and Calamity. This is a bit more IAS than a quiver and trading CHC for (major) CHD. In that setup, I'd minimize CHC and use Nat's ring and Broken Promises instead of Focus / Restraint. The high number of hits per shot in combination with the incredible attack speed should provide a very high uptime for the 100% CHC, thus getting the most out of the extra 130% CHD in the off-hand weapon. This also gives some space in the passives; I'd run with Ambush / Awareness / Steady Aim / Numbing Traps or Perfectionist. In addition, CHC on gear becomes undesirable, freeing up the slots for IAS or Area Damage. Especially IAS is nice, since both Bane of the Stricken and Broken Primises highly benefit from it.


    Of course, this will only be viable if Bane of the Stricken en Zei stack and the stack buildup proves fast enough....we'll see next season!

    Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
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