Ok... I was having trouble understanding your explination of how Zei's worked so I asked a question regarding bott to give me an idea of how strong you believe zei's is.
2nd, I'm aware that avg stacks of PE will be lower then 30 throughout a rift. Why I will still likely use PE in a high GR push setting is because it would further amplify MS's strength in high density scenarios. Which is what your team will be fishing for anyways.
When a GG spires map keeps the mob cluster growing the deeper you go, PE is doing phenomenal work moving the progress bar.
I'm having a hard time understanding how Zei's works with how you explained it so let me ask you a question.
If you were to compare a lvl90 Bane of the Trapped (42%) multiplier, and a lvl90 Zeis (42.5%) assuming you and all 5 sentries are casting 50+ yds. Are you saying that Zei's gives more then .5% advantage over trapped?
Follow up question, do you think zei's continues to get higher @60, 70, 80 yards?
Ok I see what you are saying, that a lvl80 zei's is better then a lvl75, but pain enhancer doesn't get much better lvl25 to 80. Gotcha
I'm sure I could figure it out, at how many stacks of pain enhancer beats say a lvl90 Zeis (42.5%) my guess would be like 50%ias, or 16-17 targets bleeding.
"While it may be limited to 50 yards, damage multiplier can be upgraded infinitely."
Are you saying that Zei's will do more damage at 70yds vs 50yds? To my knowledge zei's bonus is the same at 50 yds or 100yds.
I would think that if you and all 5 sentries are 50+ yrds you would get the listed 50yd multiplier. If I am wrong here something could be said for keeping your sentries incredibly far off screen.
Either way Zei's would be a more grounded and static option while Pain Enhancer would shine in density. Think GG caverns of arenea(spelling >. <), or Spire tile sets.
I'm aware that I need 30 targets within range bleeding to get the full benifit of PE. THE bleed is negligable dmg as M6 doesn't boost it, physical build or not.
To my knowledge, Zei's max bonus is 50+ yards away which CA can reach and sentries can fire from off screen. Was your point that CA is often utilizing the 50+ yrd dmg bonus?
Zei's Stone is the number one dps gem for Marauder builds because of the synergy with sentries..
In the situation I would like to apply this build, high GR experience runs or pushes if the dmg ends up being worthy. Ideally a globe barb present. In the 75 solo grs I did I could face tank quite comfortably.
This leads me to reason, with ignore pain in group, I could comfortably plant near density to make use of 30 stacks of pain enhancer (90% ias) in GR85s.
Using Endless walk, Zei's may make me consider repositioning and break dmg. Or I stay still and mobs move closer to me reducing Zei's bonus.
Another reason would be with MS my dmg makes up roughly 45% and sentries make up 55%. CA is something like 33/66%. So sentry dmg and position I think gets a bit less benifit from Zeis.
Pain enhancers IAS can nearly double your damage when resource can support it. I would certainly use Zei's in solo though. Zei's is stupid strong and could be used for groups too, but I think I'll prefer the IAS and zodiac synergy from PE.
How would 100% sentry dmg from bombard compare to double shot from DML?
damage equation wise?
I dont think that it's simple as double attack vs double damage, but if that is the point, then one would have to weight only initial 40% of life untill DML kicks in, which would lead to another comparison of CA on manticore and MS on YR, and on and on.
So, just equation wise, where does sentry dmg fit in?
My math isn't eligant, so I made two profiles that can show you.
Both are maxed out the best I know, it should compare HfA/FnR vs EW/zodiac and MS and CA's support legendaries.
To answer your question Ch1zra, click on the Skills/Effects tab at the top of the screen. Underneath CA and MS you can click on sentry rocket dmg or sentry damage to illustrate that sentry bonus damage is a separate multiplier.
MS build will have a 30% sentry multiplier and the CA build will have 130%, the kicker is while dynamic, its only effect is on M4 multiplier, not M6.
You'll also see that MS's total damage per cast at 17.8billion, and CA's total per cast at 47.2billion. For MS it does the math for you at 5.0 aps or 89B dps. CA is 47.2 x 2.42aps = 114.2B dps.
Now here is the K.O. kicker, that senario is single target dps. AND DML's orange text is not represented in that conclusion.
In reality(doing X2 dmg 60% of the time), you could expect 142.4 billion single target dps with MS arsenal. MS will do substancially more damage when its able to hit 30, 50, or 100+ additional targets. Prior to doing this I thought that CA would surely do more dmg in low target situations, evidently my napkin math was low balled. (For the sheep; CA - shooting stars only hits 136.2 billion single target dps.)
The reason for this is because all of MS's support legendaries directly effect M4 and M6, while the cookie cutter CA uses BRS, while incredibly strong doesn't effect M6 an x31 multiplier.
Additionally, zodiac brings 100% wolf uptime, 50 hatred every 5-7 seconds, and sentries are more readily available. Yangs recurve also has 50 RCR, while manticore is specifically CA RCR. This makes spirit spenders and sentry cost twice as cheap.
The cons, MS hatred per second is 56.25, while CA is only 43.56. Considering both builds have seethe, bat, and a Templar, they gain 17hps. Leaving them at 39.25 and 26.56. Factor in bat activation 8.33hps for MS, and 2.5hps for CA.
MS requires 30.92 hatred cost per second
CA requires 24.06 hps
Both builds should be adequately topped in resource with 1 globe support in your party.
I think in a sense he's asking what the 4player meta is, and where does DH fit.
In my opinion, alot of dps builds are capable of 90+ but the fotm is probably DMO twister wizard. Dart doc, and S6 DH bring elite and RG single target.
But if history tells us anything, where were all those leet hota barbs at the end of the season 4?
For support, I think globe barbs and monks bring more defensive options while WD and Sader bring more offense.
It does hit twice, either because you cast twice, or that MS is mapped that way with it equipped. If you pay attention to see a sentry's arsenal rocket hit a lone mob, it flashes two simular numbers.
I would stay on master till your power grows, or farm up a bunch of GR keys on wiz nmand run speed grs to get gems and even GR10 has a really high drop rate on legs.
I've not been able to play since the season has started, all of my data was collected on the PTR, which were two clean gr75 clears on hardcore. I found both yangs and manticore to have simular results in solo, in a group setting I'm sure MS has more potential. This was prior to the rocket nerf, which further leads me in the MS direction.
You are right that I have nothing to show currently, and could be pulling these numbers from thin air. Anticipating when I get back home to start my seasonal HC DH.
At first glance CA is beefy, largely due to the fact it hits a very small radius. Let's compare a simular rune Maelstrom.
CA-Maelstrom hits for 650%wd in a 8-10yd circle, with 3×900%wd rockets.
MS-Arsenal hits for 360%wd in a large cone that spans to the furthest reaches of your screen, with 3×600%wd rockets.
Maelstrom's rockets hit 50% harder per hit.
MS cone needs to hit nearly twice (×1.8) as many targets to do more damage then Maelstrom.
Let's add in the yang speed bonus, 50% speed bonus a dynamic multiplier.
Rockets now do the same damage, arsenal hitting faster, maelstrom hitting harder.
MS needed to hit 1.8 more targets, hitting 1.5 faster that number is reduced to ×1.188
What these numbers tell me is that maelstrom is roughly 2-9% stronger fighting 1 to 4 targets, 5 being even, and 6+ clearly in favor of MS.
Not trying to attack you but CA is only juicy in cost, and I think MS + yangs + DML, has stronger multipliers then CA + Manti + rucksack cookie cutter. No one talks about LfB, which could prove to be the best rune, it's all speculation until variations arise and prove their worth.
As for zodiac and it's inconsistency, at 28% cdr was enough for me to be happy with 95% uptime. I'm confident at 36%, 100% uptime would be possible. If you had actually tested this it's not falling off at all when you are mowing down screens, it falls off when traversing to the next room, and is quickly up again, if not ready by the time you plant. Let's also make note that zodiac is also keeping wolf up, as well as 50 hatred every 5-8 seconds so zodiac's use isn't only benefiting vengeance like dawn would.
All you have said this entire page is that it's not really worth trying, another set does it better, dawn is irreplaceable, and CA hits harder without much data to back the claims.
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Ok... I was having trouble understanding your explination of how Zei's worked so I asked a question regarding bott to give me an idea of how strong you believe zei's is.
2nd, I'm aware that avg stacks of PE will be lower then 30 throughout a rift. Why I will still likely use PE in a high GR push setting is because it would further amplify MS's strength in high density scenarios. Which is what your team will be fishing for anyways.
When a GG spires map keeps the mob cluster growing the deeper you go, PE is doing phenomenal work moving the progress bar.
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I'm having a hard time understanding how Zei's works with how you explained it so let me ask you a question.
If you were to compare a lvl90 Bane of the Trapped (42%) multiplier, and a lvl90 Zeis (42.5%) assuming you and all 5 sentries are casting 50+ yds. Are you saying that Zei's gives more then .5% advantage over trapped?
Follow up question, do you think zei's continues to get higher @60, 70, 80 yards?
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Ok I see what you are saying, that a lvl80 zei's is better then a lvl75, but pain enhancer doesn't get much better lvl25 to 80. Gotcha
I'm sure I could figure it out, at how many stacks of pain enhancer beats say a lvl90 Zeis (42.5%) my guess would be like 50%ias, or 16-17 targets bleeding.
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"While it may be limited to 50 yards, damage multiplier can be upgraded infinitely."
Are you saying that Zei's will do more damage at 70yds vs 50yds? To my knowledge zei's bonus is the same at 50 yds or 100yds.
I would think that if you and all 5 sentries are 50+ yrds you would get the listed 50yd multiplier. If I am wrong here something could be said for keeping your sentries incredibly far off screen.
Either way Zei's would be a more grounded and static option while Pain Enhancer would shine in density. Think GG caverns of arenea(spelling >. <), or Spire tile sets.
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I'm aware that I need 30 targets within range bleeding to get the full benifit of PE. THE bleed is negligable dmg as M6 doesn't boost it, physical build or not.
To my knowledge, Zei's max bonus is 50+ yards away which CA can reach and sentries can fire from off screen. Was your point that CA is often utilizing the 50+ yrd dmg bonus?
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In the situation I would like to apply this build, high GR experience runs or pushes if the dmg ends up being worthy. Ideally a globe barb present. In the 75 solo grs I did I could face tank quite comfortably.
This leads me to reason, with ignore pain in group, I could comfortably plant near density to make use of 30 stacks of pain enhancer (90% ias) in GR85s.
Using Endless walk, Zei's may make me consider repositioning and break dmg. Or I stay still and mobs move closer to me reducing Zei's bonus.
Another reason would be with MS my dmg makes up roughly 45% and sentries make up 55%. CA is something like 33/66%. So sentry dmg and position I think gets a bit less benifit from Zeis.
Pain enhancers IAS can nearly double your damage when resource can support it. I would certainly use Zei's in solo though. Zei's is stupid strong and could be used for groups too, but I think I'll prefer the IAS and zodiac synergy from PE.
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My math isn't eligant, so I made two profiles that can show you.
www.d3planner.com/289044778 CA Maelstrom
www.d3planner.com/653150511 MS Arsenal
Both are maxed out the best I know, it should compare HfA/FnR vs EW/zodiac and MS and CA's support legendaries.
To answer your question Ch1zra, click on the Skills/Effects tab at the top of the screen. Underneath CA and MS you can click on sentry rocket dmg or sentry damage to illustrate that sentry bonus damage is a separate multiplier.
MS build will have a 30% sentry multiplier and the CA build will have 130%, the kicker is while dynamic, its only effect is on M4 multiplier, not M6.
You'll also see that MS's total damage per cast at 17.8billion, and CA's total per cast at 47.2billion. For MS it does the math for you at 5.0 aps or 89B dps. CA is 47.2 x 2.42aps = 114.2B dps.
Now here is the K.O. kicker, that senario is single target dps. AND DML's orange text is not represented in that conclusion.
In reality(doing X2 dmg 60% of the time), you could expect 142.4 billion single target dps with MS arsenal. MS will do substancially more damage when its able to hit 30, 50, or 100+ additional targets. Prior to doing this I thought that CA would surely do more dmg in low target situations, evidently my napkin math was low balled. (For the sheep; CA - shooting stars only hits 136.2 billion single target dps.)
The reason for this is because all of MS's support legendaries directly effect M4 and M6, while the cookie cutter CA uses BRS, while incredibly strong doesn't effect M6 an x31 multiplier.
Additionally, zodiac brings 100% wolf uptime, 50 hatred every 5-7 seconds, and sentries are more readily available. Yangs recurve also has 50 RCR, while manticore is specifically CA RCR. This makes spirit spenders and sentry cost twice as cheap.
The cons, MS hatred per second is 56.25, while CA is only 43.56. Considering both builds have seethe, bat, and a Templar, they gain 17hps. Leaving them at 39.25 and 26.56. Factor in bat activation 8.33hps for MS, and 2.5hps for CA.
MS requires 30.92 hatred cost per second
CA requires 24.06 hps
Both builds should be adequately topped in resource with 1 globe support in your party.
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I think in a sense he's asking what the 4player meta is, and where does DH fit.
In my opinion, alot of dps builds are capable of 90+ but the fotm is probably DMO twister wizard. Dart doc, and S6 DH bring elite and RG single target.
But if history tells us anything, where were all those leet hota barbs at the end of the season 4?
For support, I think globe barbs and monks bring more defensive options while WD and Sader bring more offense.
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83 to 86 discipline ends up being a 3.6% increase, 59 to 62 would be just over 5% increase. This might give you a better idea.
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For all the yang reroll questions regarding UE6, disc is not as powerful as ppl may think it is. It adds to a multiplier. For example:
Going from 83disc (1660% UE6 bonus) to 86 disc (1720%) is an overall increase of 3.6%
So in the case of a yangs having stats like:
6% dmg bonus
900dex
24 area dmg
9 disc
6 to 10% dmg bonus would be slightly better then 9 to 12 disc
If the yangs were like this:
7% dmg bonus
900 dex
24 area dmg
9 disc
9 to 12 disc would be more benifitial then rolling the 7% dmg bonus up to 10.
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It does hit twice, either because you cast twice, or that MS is mapped that way with it equipped. If you pay attention to see a sentry's arsenal rocket hit a lone mob, it flashes two simular numbers.
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I would stay on master till your power grows, or farm up a bunch of GR keys on wiz nmand run speed grs to get gems and even GR10 has a really high drop rate on legs.
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I've not been able to play since the season has started, all of my data was collected on the PTR, which were two clean gr75 clears on hardcore. I found both yangs and manticore to have simular results in solo, in a group setting I'm sure MS has more potential. This was prior to the rocket nerf, which further leads me in the MS direction.
You are right that I have nothing to show currently, and could be pulling these numbers from thin air. Anticipating when I get back home to start my seasonal HC DH.
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At first glance CA is beefy, largely due to the fact it hits a very small radius. Let's compare a simular rune Maelstrom.
CA-Maelstrom hits for 650%wd in a 8-10yd circle, with 3×900%wd rockets.
MS-Arsenal hits for 360%wd in a large cone that spans to the furthest reaches of your screen, with 3×600%wd rockets.
Maelstrom's rockets hit 50% harder per hit.
MS cone needs to hit nearly twice (×1.8) as many targets to do more damage then Maelstrom.
Let's add in the yang speed bonus, 50% speed bonus a dynamic multiplier.
Rockets now do the same damage, arsenal hitting faster, maelstrom hitting harder.
MS needed to hit 1.8 more targets, hitting 1.5 faster that number is reduced to ×1.188
What these numbers tell me is that maelstrom is roughly 2-9% stronger fighting 1 to 4 targets, 5 being even, and 6+ clearly in favor of MS.
Not trying to attack you but CA is only juicy in cost, and I think MS + yangs + DML, has stronger multipliers then CA + Manti + rucksack cookie cutter. No one talks about LfB, which could prove to be the best rune, it's all speculation until variations arise and prove their worth.
As for zodiac and it's inconsistency, at 28% cdr was enough for me to be happy with 95% uptime. I'm confident at 36%, 100% uptime would be possible. If you had actually tested this it's not falling off at all when you are mowing down screens, it falls off when traversing to the next room, and is quickly up again, if not ready by the time you plant. Let's also make note that zodiac is also keeping wolf up, as well as 50 hatred every 5-8 seconds so zodiac's use isn't only benefiting vengeance like dawn would.
All you have said this entire page is that it's not really worth trying, another set does it better, dawn is irreplaceable, and CA hits harder without much data to back the claims.
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Holy point shot is 1 of 9 (I think) quivers so with daggers your crafting chance is much higher 1 of 2.