DiabloFans

I noticed this, and was extremely pleased with it.

1) The no sound/indication is a 'clipped' animation timing thing. Well accepted.

2) If it does skip the animation/sound, and does not upgrade your gem, then you didn't have 100% chance, and it failed.

3) If you have 100% upgrade chance, and you empowered the rift, it still means you have to have 100% chance on all 4 levels to guarantee an upgrade. Yes 90%'s can fail.

Basically, it's not failing due to this 'bug'... it's failing because your chance to upgrade sucks.

Quote from sykotic»

Quote from Nachten»

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

We're not talking about solutions to the problem, we're not talking about anything around the issue, we're talking about botting.

So whats your opinion on a solution? Paragon Cap in Season? Captcha like mentioned so often? Something else?
I*m realy interested to hear something additional than all this already mentioned stuff.

First off I don't know if there is a 100% viable solution to the problem since Blizzard has let it get so far out of hand as it stands today.

If Blizzard can truly detect Bots, and not just "bot like behavior" then at least we have a starting point. However if they just go after anyone who has 12 plus hours of playtime a day for example, then you could be banning a great number of legitimate players mistakenly. People go on binges with this game, they leave the game on and sit in menus for 6 hours, they enter and leave games repeatedly looking for the perfect grifts, they run endless rifts back to back with no let up except maybe a few minutes break. That can all be looked at as behavior that is "bot like". But the real question remains if their system in place can currently detect 3rd party programs playing the game, because if they cannot, then ZERO bans should be handed out.

Now, on the other side of the coin, if Blizzard CAN see that third party programs are reading memory, injecting any commands into the game, or anything else that these programs can do, then by all means, ban them. Ban them all. Any and every player that uses a 3rd party program.

Now for arguments sake, lets say they do not take that road. Lets say they realize that removing bots would severely impact their playerbase on a daily average. Lets say they find an alternate measure.

Assuming they can identify bot users, one "solution" if they choose not to undertake a massive ban wave would be to flag these players accounts, in a visible way that ANY and ALL players can see. Lets say a new icon like a player portrait that cannot be changed, or maybe an asterisk next to their name when they log in or a message to all players when they join a party. Another harsher alternative would be something that may be too difficult to implement, but lets say any player who has been VERIFIED of botting is restricted from joining public games. They can play on their own or with clan/friendslist players, HOWEVER, if a GRift is opened in a group, no player who is flagged can join with other people. They can make their own GRifts, and they can push high GRifts, but they will not appear on the leaderboards, but there will always be a way to tell if the person has been/is a bot user.

In addition, I think that the paragon system is simply out of hand. I think paragon should be harder to obtain, and be limited to 800 points in season. Non season should be unlimited, but for competitive play it is simply too powerful and provides too much of a bonus in damage. I have completed GRift 55 on my monk and will be slowly pushing it to 60 if I can, and for that I am proud. However there is ZERO chance of me competing with players who have 1300 or 1600 paragon levels. Cap it at 800 for seasons and it might also be time for an overhaul of the available pages/choices on the paragon system. That however is a different discussion.

Captcha systems would work to a point, but would also annoy a lot of legit players who simply get tired of entering it. Also, when would the captcha come up......Beginning, mid game, would it pause the game, would it come up in the middle of a boss fight, would it come up when you just killed the boss and have 10 seconds to turn in the rift ? Things could go worse because of them.

You wanted possible solutions. That would be mine.

PS - Nachten You mistakenly changed the part of my quote from Bagstone's name to Arydor. (I changed it back for you)

No idea why that happened, but lets keep the accusations with who actually said them.

"Bot like behaviour" isn't just spamming rifts all day, it's a series of actions that a human person manually playing the game wouldn't do. Example; Attempting to loot the same item for 5 minutes and can't because of a full inventory. You and I and all the other real boys out there realize after the first, or maybe 5th attempt that our inventory is full, and adapt, the bot would just continue to try until the command timed out.
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Blizzard doesn't shame ban people, never have, never will. In fact, if you ever hear that someone was banned, it's through player channels. Actually, funny turn of events, if you actually read the EULA, you'll laugh a little bit at Quin, Dat, Alk, and the other streamers who signed this letter. (If you understand, you can give a thumbs up.) But it states that Blizzard cannot shame ban you, they can terminate your account without reason, but they can't tell anybody what that reason is.
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Paragon is getting out of hand because it's the only thing of value to farm. Perfect Ancient gear is awesome, but once you've got all that, what do you do? Especially when you dedicate 8+ hours to the game.
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Thanks for the cheers, I'm not the one saying that anyone who disagrees is a botter
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<Informational poste only> =)

Quote from Nachten»

So whats your opinion on a solution? Paragon Cap in Season? Captcha like mentioned so often? Something else?
I*m realy interested to hear something additional than all this already mentioned stuff.

Quote from sykotic»

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

Quote from MeatHeadMikhail

1) Reported, and be glad you can hide behind a layer of anonymity on the internet, as your first sentence is quite the threat.
2) If you know of a better representative, please, by all means, come forth.
I get it, you're likely a botter. Keep it to yourself.

Thank you. as to 1) that you're fandom of the technicality and again, an inflated sense of your importance. It was not a threat, simply a statement. 2) As you quoted, a 'better' representative of the community would be an OPEN signature letter (where anyone can sign, not just you and your clique), which would be more well written than your current closed letter.
As to your third statement, I've never botted, nor do I keep botters on my list. I've never been banned or suspended for using any kind of exploit/bot/hack/hud, because I don't use them. I program, I enjoy coding, and I know the trials and tribulations that face any program that emulates a person playing a game. I'd go into more detail, but I don't think you'd understand most of the jargon.
The fact that you accuse me of being a botter could also indicate your condescendence towards the general community of D3. That because someone has a different opinion than yours, and disagrees with your motives behind doing something, and claiming to represent the D3 community as a whole, is met with condescendence and arrogance, that shows me, and other intelligent people that you either cannot defend your position, or that there are ulterior motives for doing it.
So again, Thank you.

Quote from MeatHeadMikhail»

I'm Mikhail and I approve this message. https://youtu.be/15bNDZ6oMzk

I'll admit, read the first page and quit cycling, if anything interesting arose, maybe I'll go back...

First, 1 hour, isn't astronomical, but they've already posted a job listing for an art position for Diablo (Game and Project were mentioned, so it's either D4, or D3 expansion.) It also falls under the guidelines of space/time when you consider the rest of thier schedule.

Second, they also have Hearthstone, Starcraft. Legion, Heroes and Overwatch to tide most of Blizzcon, so why (bother) with talking about upcoming changes to Diablo if they're not in the mix until next year?

Third, Diablo at least gets a booth, with 4 tourney's going on, I didn't even expect that much. Unless they somehow came out with a D3 tourney of who can clear the highest GR in under an hour... not really exciting.

Enjoy Blizzcon, it's Blizzcon, not Diablocon.

Quote from Koksii»

Quote from Ellmer»

Can I sign this too?

Quote from 0003Nivels»

Regardless if some of the names have used THUD or botted, they can still be against it and want the rules to be enforced. They don't have to be "pure and clean angels" to believe in banning botters. Trying to discredit what they are saying like that is called poisoning the well, and it's a childish rhetorical device, drop it.

Quote from Zuboito»

My thoughts:

1) Every armor slot (head, chest, legs...) should have 2 main stats - vit + main stats - after all they are ARMOUR (They do, you just change them most the time for optimization)

2) Gems (normal ones) - need some love - for better customization (Topaz was gonna get a RCR change, but that got scrapped, so I agree here)

3) Legendary games - tbh they need more abilities - for example at rank 75 and 100 (No, gems without caps are already too powerful, adding extra bonuses to an area which we just reached is not the answer, and limits NEW gems idea pool.)

4) Banner - It would be nice example if you finish some "achivments" you can hit banner button in the combat and example you get some random effect from it (ias, cc, cd, more life per hit or if you slay "some Demon boss" u get more dmg vs demons etc). (Oh you mean like super paragons? I dunno, I read this twice and still don't understand your main concept or how it's different from, well, paragon points?)

5) Some class need more love with 6 piece bonuses - Barbarian have like 7-8 items in set and he can combine other items with it and then you have monk who have only 6 pieces for set and must have all of them. (Agreed, though, it will depend on the manner in which they do so, for example, restricted to wearing only 2 sets (Inna's/Sunwuko's but even if you were wearing 4 pieces inna's, 2 pieces sunwuko's, you could not gain the 2 set of uliana's. RoRG WAS way too powerful and required for nearly every build out there forever. We have at least SOME diversity now <Unity, CoE, F&R, even SoJ made a bit of a comeback>)

6) Ancient weps are really mandatory for higher grifts (since they boost your dmg for 20-30%) with 1000+ paragon lvls - so skill doesnt have anything with it... crap (This is not an idea, as it is a statement of fact.)

7) Salvage - Why legendary item can't drop yellow or blue ones? (Uhm, what?)

8) Healing pots - why would I have to have him in inventory? Why just don't make them possible to pick up - identify and then just select from Q which one do you need on any character? (Best on from each is saved while indentify) (That one slot is really hurting your farming. It's also so you can use it or a different pot on all your other chars, ya know, armour for your tank, healing for your heal monk, resist all for your hota barb.)

9) Why not making some kind of Elixirs - you can use them XY times, u farm mats for them etc etc. (What would they do? Would they be a dps/toughness increase? A farming platform? Please build on your ideas.)

10) Legendary chests or Shrines? (See, Resplendant, Radiant, Bandit for more details.)

11) I would remove shrines from Grifts - they are to damn random and if I got lucky and got POWER / Conduit shrine its like 50% of grift progress with good density, no fair in ranked runs... (This is why fishing is a thing. I'd say simply remove the useless pylons from Grifts, and add maybe 2 more, but give them offensive power, speed and shield are pretty much useless unless you run into that nightmare affixed yellow which you can then just punch in the face for awhile anyway...)

12) More visiable buffs (or if I can check which buffs I would like to see) (Currently the biggest problem plaguing group play, hopefully fixed soon (TM))

13) Why i'm getting rewarded with shard cap only from single grifting? (Groups are easier to push higher, and solo is a personal achievement, as is your own personal blood shard cap)

14) Globes after killing elites - do i really have to fuck with that after i kill them? I want kill more of them not collecting some fucking purple globes (It's a reward on your progress bar for actually killing them, if they didn't exist for that extra 3% progress, there would be no point in killing elites in grifts, too much health, not enough progress.)

15) Paragon points are to limited.. boring as hell...(wep dmg bonus, extra socket for example 1000 paragon points, extra dmg vs elite, 0.1% dmg on XY skill, vision raidius, piercing chance, bleeding chance to do XY dmg so on...) (So instead of the huge power gap between paragon mainstays now, you'd like to add on top of having a perfectly rolled ancient weapon, adding affixes to your weapon<basically> through more paragon? Not a bad idea I suppose, but then you'd have to remove the mainstat completely for balance properties, so I don't see how that's much different.)

16) Legendary rifts? With some crazy rewards but some disadvantage for you or mobs hits harder/faster whatever... (See, GRIFTS)

17) Gem linking - example if you put same quality or same color gem You get some kind of bonus. (Contrary to point 2? Or with point 2?)

18) Enchants for legs, chest, feet, shoulders, head - some of this pieces are really bad.. just stats and that's it.. (Enchants? All items are 'just stats', so I'm very confused by this one. Unless you mean adding enchantments? In which case, why?)

19) Chance to roll Legendary socket - example - when you put legendary socket into that you get some crazy bonus like 1000 vitality or whatever (Not a bad idea, but then why not just go out and say you can roll an item with a legendary socket, that fits a legendary gem <outside of rings and amulets>)

20) Profile for builds so I dont have to spend time for changing or lvling 2nd character (Nope. This should never EVER be an option. Though the thought and idea is pretty cool, the main problem with this idea is simple, D3 is a grind and grab game, you'd constantly be adding and removing pieces from your bare minimum 2 sets, that it's more of a headache than it is now, and think of all the changes required to implement this, you'd have to have an indicator on each piece of gear to tell you which set it's in, so you don't just dirt it, and then if you did, what happens to your set? Not as simple as it was to add to WoW. Disagree 150% if you want, it's too big, and too micromanagement to be a decent change, let alone a good one.)

21) Some money sink things (Always a good idea, but how bout you throw some out there? I've always thought cosmetics for gold was a good idea, pets/wings/banners.)

22) Legendary gem implementation into cube so i dont have to cut then put into stash then log on another character (Agreed, though this would take away from the 'threat' of playing hardcore. A simple 'Upgrade Gem Account' idea though, that would work?)

23) Hard to get or time consumed specialization - example I would like to play more COLD WIzard - I would like to do some crazy HC 18h per day farming to get specialization where example I can get +20-50% cold dmg, immune or more res vs cold spells / or monk - i master my movement speed, i have better critical chance because i'm fast and enemey can't block my attacks, i'm moving faster. Demon hunter would example do more dmg vs demons/undeads etc. (I think this is just a build up on paragon diversity.)
24) Something more then GRIFT for end game with more viable builds and sets. (Like what? Grifting is already an 'endless tower' to climb, they add new sets every patch... It's kinda hard to add to or agree/disagree when there is no actual idea.)

25) Wep customization - as they intruduced in WOW for Legion (Again, paragon diversity, or ya know, ancient farming and mystic luck.)

26) Set items for follower and more skills for them (also only "your follower cannot die affix is best" - rest sux so actually why did they gave them :O) (Sets for a follower? That would be cool, but then you'd have another full set to farm every season and sets on followers were deemed 'too powerful' and since has seen the limitation of a followers dps potential. The 'follower cannot die' isn't always the best option, and the others have very decent uses. Ignorance of those uses is no excuse to eliminate elements from the game.)

27) Mora stash tabs/space (Duh, but it'll never happen, pretty sure Blizz already took a stand on that one.)

28) Why I need have dead timer in rifts?? Sometimes you have to w8 10sec till u click resurect then 5sec till you get from ghost form etc.. i want to play not w8 for dead timer. (This is my pet peeve of D3, but I also understand why it exists. The object of end-game content is not to die. In Diablo, dying has no real consequence is SC. Sure, your armour gets damaged, but gold is nothing, so repairing isn't that hard, it doesn't reset mob health, or your entire instance when you die. It does feel like a time-out, to think about why you died and how you could do better, but then again fishing exists, and maybe you just aren't up on that level yet? It's there for a reason, and yes, you lose valuable time, so there's your death consequence. I'll pose this question and let you decide... "Would you rather wait ~30 seconds, or get a RG to 5%, get 1 shot and have him reset to 100%?")

So my edits and responses are in the quote... Honestly not trying to troll if that's how any of the answers seemed. I like 2-3 of 28 things listed, but the rest, we'll... you know the rest.

This thread is still going? "Remove paragon, remove the problem" "Break privacy laws to catch the cheaters" "Dedicated players will still play because they have no life, even if there is nothing to gain." Listen to yourselves... You all sound stupid and childish. There's a plan to crack the botters, I'm sure of it. Paragon, will most likely change in the future, because of all the baby whiners out there who asked for it and when they got it, didn't want it anymore. If you don't have anything besides "better rolled" gear to farm, the game becomes stale, boring and dead... even seasonally. You can't have you cake and eat it too... Get a life, and play your game. Yours. Not theirs.

still the time window in which MH procs occur gets smaller when mobs are CC immune (or almost immune). It's just that there seems to be a limit. Like a minimum amount of paralysis proc duration (even though the mob is not stunned). Otherwise MH would never proc again if you don't "refresh" your mobs completely by stepping away and coming back later. Which is by the way a good thing to do if you wanna get most procs out of your doulbe archon / 4 Tal Stacks duration.

And no TR is not the only choice when it comes down to the usage of MH.

It's just that everybody and their grandmother is copying the same builds... FB is a valid choice (and after all it's possible to maintain the full set bonus for 20 sec of Archon and not only 8...)

The reason TR is especially good is cus it can be combined with 4 pieces of Vyr and is overall easier to use / build a skillsetup around, otherwise FB would be simply better overall in every case.

*Was trying to quote someone, failed miserably.

You! You there! I like you.

It's nice to see some sense in this thread.

Quote from Nachten»

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

We're not talking about solutions to the problem, we're not talking about anything around the issue, we're talking about botting.

So whats your opinion on a solution? Paragon Cap in Season? Captcha like mentioned so often? Something else?
I*m realy interested to hear something additional than all this already mentioned stuff.

First off I don't know if there is a 100% viable solution to the problem since Blizzard has let it get so far out of hand as it stands today.

If Blizzard can truly detect Bots, and not just "bot like behavior" then at least we have a starting point. However if they just go after anyone who has 12 plus hours of playtime a day for example, then you could be banning a great number of legitimate players mistakenly. People go on binges with this game, they leave the game on and sit in menus for 6 hours, they enter and leave games repeatedly looking for the perfect grifts, they run endless rifts back to back with no let up except maybe a few minutes break. That can all be looked at as behavior that is "bot like". But the real question remains if their system in place can currently detect 3rd party programs playing the game, because if they cannot, then ZERO bans should be handed out.

Now, on the other side of the coin, if Blizzard CAN see that third party programs are reading memory, injecting any commands into the game, or anything else that these programs can do, then by all means, ban them. Ban them all. Any and every player that uses a 3rd party program.

Now for arguments sake, lets say they do not take that road. Lets say they realize that removing bots would severely impact their playerbase on a daily average. Lets say they find an alternate measure.

Assuming they can identify bot users, one "solution" if they choose not to undertake a massive ban wave would be to flag these players accounts, in a visible way that ANY and ALL players can see. Lets say a new icon like a player portrait that cannot be changed, or maybe an asterisk next to their name when they log in or a message to all players when they join a party. Another harsher alternative would be something that may be too difficult to implement, but lets say any player who has been VERIFIED of botting is restricted from joining public games. They can play on their own or with clan/friendslist players, HOWEVER, if a GRift is opened in a group, no player who is flagged can join with other people. They can make their own GRifts, and they can push high GRifts, but they will not appear on the leaderboards, but there will always be a way to tell if the person has been/is a bot user.

In addition, I think that the paragon system is simply out of hand. I think paragon should be harder to obtain, and be limited to 800 points in season. Non season should be unlimited, but for competitive play it is simply too powerful and provides too much of a bonus in damage. I have completed GRift 55 on my monk and will be slowly pushing it to 60 if I can, and for that I am proud. However there is ZERO chance of me competing with players who have 1300 or 1600 paragon levels. Cap it at 800 for seasons and it might also be time for an overhaul of the available pages/choices on the paragon system. That however is a different discussion.

Captcha systems would work to a point, but would also annoy a lot of legit players who simply get tired of entering it. Also, when would the captcha come up......Beginning, mid game, would it pause the game, would it come up in the middle of a boss fight, would it come up when you just killed the boss and have 10 seconds to turn in the rift ? Things could go worse because of them.

You wanted possible solutions. That would be mine.

PS - Nachten You mistakenly changed the part of my quote from Bagstone's name to Arydor. (I changed it back for you)

No idea why that happened, but lets keep the accusations with who actually said them.

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

For someone who is preaching to stay on topic and avoid the name calling and accusations, I would say to read what you yourself wrote. You leveling accusations like that (twice in this thread in 2 separate comments ) is better in exactly what way ? How is it justifiable in your eyes to call anyone in this thread a botter ? What proof do you have ?

You mention people leveling accusations against signatories of the open letter. You ask what proof there is of that, well, open admission from at least 2 of them have been quoted in these last 10 pages. There have already been posts detailing accounts of botting/ account sharing/ turbohud using by several of your signers. However I guess that is something we can overlook because they are internet stars and we are not.

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

Quote from Fleywell»

Quote from Arokhantos»

Just because thud ads better functionality to diablo 3 hud even without the cheats doesn't mean its not a cheat anymore.

You still have an advantage over others, which itself is cheating, not to mention it lets you see stuff you shouldn't even if can turn that off the fact it's possible doesn't make it any less worse.

I definitely hope they deal with thud users also, and in my opinion you cheat you're out, zero tolerance.

If you deal slow with cheaters and even don't hand out permanent bans then why should people take you seriously at all as game dev, they will just continue forever.

If I follow this logic, then Blizzard should ban every addon user in WoW, because addons give huge advantage to users.

Don't compare add ons from wow to turbohud, turbo hud is a third party app not allowed according to eula.
Add Ons are scripted lua files that you put in the addon folder that wow reads, and wow dev team decides what kind of control addon is able to do, they can limit addon functionality or increase it whenever they wish, and it doesn't allow things that aren't allowed.

Quote from ffs

THUD is just the example to make a point, namely:
The letter should have been about cheating in general, and yes I think people are absolutely right when they say the fact it's not is hypocritical.

Exactly my thought, its like they are saying plz ban botting cos its unfair, but plz do nothing against turbohud because i actually use to gain advantage. they strongly stated in eula any form of automatic play or even data mining is against the eula, that diablo 3 needs huds improvements oke but to use that to justify use of turbohud is dumb, you use it i hope you are already marked for a perm ban, lets take any other gamedev they do not care how bad the cheat is if it gains you small or huge advantage, you get perm ban anyway, you knew what you where doing and you know the risks of getting caught, this aplies to any kind of cheating botting included, zero tolerance aka you get caught perm ban no exceptions.

Exploits can be argue'd about should be considered per case basis, but any kind third party app big no no.

Like mentioned before, THUD and other such advantages are not mentioned because none of the signees would be able to sign it without looking foolish. I agree with most points that THUD is a much bigger advantage that botting in getting a leaderboard spot. Seeing pylons ahead of time and mob density (along with the convenience of of seeing debuffs on the ground) is a big advantage over having just the vanilla UI.

To say you want a competitive leaderboard for players who work hard and not mention TurboHud because you are trying to keep the letter from being "vague" is just an excuse. The reason is that none of the users could sign it even though THUD gives a much edge to these users that botting gives to botters.

Botting is hurting the game as well and I agree it should be taken care of, but in regards to fair and competitive leaderboards for players who work hard the real problem is actually THUD.