Please forgive them, for they know not what they speak. And please, oh lord, allow this thread and threads like it to wither away and die as they should.
Amen.
Service is over, BG has provided us with the ammo we need to tear his entire thread to the ground, please leave in an orderly fashion or go down with the ship.
So wait, I'mma take a stab at this, you cleared a GR 60 with a conduit, and then updated your PTR build, and then couldn't do more than 20% with a conduit... first, if this happened, the way you say it did, kudos for breaking the PTR long enough to abuse a conduit pylon. second, the update would have reverted the conduit to it's new state, wherein the previous was not, making the first super powered against the RG, and the second a floppy sock.
Also, the hate mongering, not needed, the game doesn't suck, you do. "To rank I have to go fishing, abusers!, LAG ON PTR NOT VALID TESTING STUFF' ... shut it. It's PTR, and it's been that way since Vanilla WoW.
Pretty sure it's D4. I don't believe the hype that D3 is getting another expansion. Besides, if we're trying to read between the lines... It does say in the title line "Next hit game!" Not "Next new content patch/expansion"
Also note: they had a great send off for Kevin, so I highly doubt they'll go on by delivering a death blow to the franchise.
If you realy feel like all the content is "forced" on to you, then maybe.. Just maybe, you aren't realy enjoying playing D3 anymore.
^ This.
Also, crafted items aren't required, and they are available from level 1 normal to 70 TX. Just levelling you're likely to grab up quite a few. This is a non-issue for almost every 'legit player'... Love how botting always seems to come with (insert new complaint here). Yes it's an issue, yes there's going to be a fix for it. Although, what? I'm not sure, still see people going crazy on console with outrageous things.
The best way to gear up on a fresh 70 w/o support from stronger characters (like in the beginning of the season) depends greatly on what class you are playing. If Monk/Barb/Crusader, you can achieve a good amount fairly quickly. The 'quickest way' to get gear quickly is probably the most painful, and requires time. Monk (for example) will yield you the best turnaround. Since you can achieve a build that requires no legendaries that can survive in t6, while it will take you a much longer time to clear a single t6 rift, the idea is to simply kill the RG, and collect the GR keystone. Once you have that, you can clear a GR1, (the equivalent to a normal rift, with t6 values on loot drops) let the timer slip past the 4:30 remaining, and then kill the RG, giving you a GR2 keystone. Repeat this process for as long as you can. You'll get GR9-13 before it becomes difficult w/o legendaries. Also, you'll pick up most, if not all of the legendary gems, which can also help you bump torment levels.
Your only other option is group play or loot sharing.
@Bagstone: From all con comments I've read until now here, us forums and reddit, the logic of the low paragon player is the following: "I gain 3-4 levels today. I kill mobs faster tomorrow. I get more level. I get more power. I have something to play for." Seems like most of these people don't enjoy experimenting with new chars, setups, builds etc... And I won't blame them. When you know a build is optimal, you don't have to discover it yourself. You just copy it and you farm paragon. And if your only goal is to creep mobs faster, you aren't interested in completing achievements, conquests, pushing leaderboards etc., then you want the current system to stay and you to have fun enjoying it.
So by being unoriginal, you get bored faster? Hmmmm, logic. From your opening statement though, that's EXACTLY what paragon is SUPPOSED to be. You wanna see dedicated players flee the boat? Cap paragon and insert vanity items for playing 12+ hours a day. See how long it lasts.
The worst thing in this discussion is when people put words in the mouth of high paragon players. This is not something that some low paragon players made up to complain about other people playing more and gaining more. This is about high paragon players being dissatisfied and fed up with the current system. If you are world paragon #1, there is no one to be jealous of. Yet, both Vajet (combined paragon #1) and Ryu (current paragon #1) in their interviews said that this system is flawed:
(Their criticism of the current system can be found if you scroll down in both interviews, answers to the last question.)
The situation is so strange: Low-level paragon players are saying "the system is fine, high-level paragon players should get more power". High- level paragon players are saying "the system is flawed, we should not gain *that* much power". Sigh.
No, you see 'low level' paragons saying everything is fine. You have high level paragons saying 'I feel like I have to farm to compete.' or "I have to wear a hellfire ring because reason 13234".
I don't really understand the problem that keeps cropping up... All I keep hearing is "It's too powerful to ignore". Agreed. "It's broken" it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.
Also, Vajet's main concern didn't seem like it was paragons or farming them, but that botting and farming rift trials and using support builds sucks. Which ties directly to another issue that keeps cropping up, and that's that support builds allow DPS builds to push higher, but I'll leave that one alone.
You have yet to prove the point you're trying to make. and every single comparison that has been made has been at least 150-1000 paragon level differences. Nonsense basically.
So huh? The last few posted are about reducing the amount of exp earned in higher rifts? What kind of backwards logic is that? If you really wanted to go into exp modifiers, why not just say you get 10x more experience for clearing a new grift level, and 5x more for clearing your top 3. The point is the 1% is the 1% and until you quit your job, disown your family and retire your life to D3, you will NeVeR be good enough to pierce through the top 10. Never. Ever. And if blizzard makes that a possibility, I for see the end of D3.
Top paragon level players are not botters. If you play legit in a group of 4 and farm speed GR you will get 5 times more xp than what the best bots can do. Whole arguement is pointless.
People express their dissatisfaction with the system because it's flawed. It forces people to farm the same content 24/7... If there was a balance between the different types of content in the game in terms of xp gained, then people would be able to farm different types of content without feeling forced to farm just this ONE THING. That's the main problem that many people seem to be missing. Botting has nothing to do with this.
Also, if someone bots and gets really high plvl, he will get banned. In EU for an example, there aren't more than a few thousands of people who are close to or are above plvl 1k... Botters can be spotted quite easily if they go overboard (and sometimes even if they don't).
Oh and you are wrong... paragon > skill is actually true. Please tell me more about how you can skillfully beat a plvl 2k player when you are plvl 800... yeah good luck. And you might not know, but it's not mainly about solo... In a group where the average plvl is 1.5k, this group can beat the shit out of trials or GR levels that a plvl 800 group will never be able to - or only be able to with extreme fishing and luck.
There's nothing wrong with a system that rewards players for playing the game more... The problem is that this specific system completely overshadows any other sort of character progression i nthe game and it has become the only way to actually play while being effecient once you have the gear.
Thank you for your input, and saying the same thing... Literally watching people poste the same crap is tiring. You're talking about 400 paragon differences. Of course it's huge. Reduce your scope by at least 250 and then you might get on the same page as the rest. Should a p200 be as powerful as a p600? No, but skill can close that gap...
The he only thing that requires attention is gem levels. And the gem leveling process.
Okay, I'm gonna put this plain and simple. Yes, it's a power creep, yes botting sucks, but the increase is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
In comparable gear to Gaby, with any indiscretions aside, he's over 1400 now in S3? I'm not quite 800 yet, but comparing our characters, he's only got a sheet dps increase of 300k on me... 300k... the equivalent of an emerald in a weapon. That's almost double my plvl... for a gem, yes it's a decent boost, but still.
I have to agree with the casual players bit though, how long through S2 were the top tiers complaining about jailer? Now that the casuals have reached 40-50+ jailer's getting a 50% damage nerf? Yup. Caters to casuals, so what are we all worried about?
Ugh, I think I'll just leave this thread alone and let you guys pat each others backs... Gem levels? With the removal of perm CC, those GR70 runs are going to implode... that's not even 1% runs. I do agree that the curve on gem levels is harsh, in the same grift hitting for 3 levels you drop from 90% to 60% if successful? Ouch, but that's not point.
Play longer, harder, don't eat, don't sleep, leave your wife, kill your kids, get a bedpan. You'll be the best of the best of the best, sir.
I am Paragon 1,012. I Still look like a joke compared to someone who is even Paragon 1100. It is 500 give or take more main stat.
So the difference between paragon 100 and 200 is inconsequent? or even 600 and 700? You're talking about 100 levels difference. if you were p1001 and looked like a joke to a p1010, then I could understand. However, 100? Good day sir.
I am a pretty crappy player, I am paragon level 650 on seasons and I can do grift 50 because of paragons allow me to, am I not entitled to hold that "last place" even though the other guy is more skilled then me?
Uhhhhhh... what? Are you saying that because your paragon 650, you got the last spot because of your paragon level? Do you miss the point of leaderboards?
In answer to your question, no, you are entitled to nothing. If the other guy is more skilled than you, he will do better than you, regardless of paragon level. To sum it all up, just no, to everything.
The people that are ok with the current system are people that dont play much and/or not competitive. The problem is, you feel compelled you have to do mindless speed runs all day, every day, to keep up and be competitive. I'd rather spend my time pushing higher GRs, solo and group, but you can't do that without spending 95% of your in game time doing speed runs.
Okay, hold up... Now, I will agree that doing the same remedial tedious tasks over and over again gets boring. Season 2... 35's speed runs were the crazy thing to do, while pushing into the high 40's low 50's... Those were top tiered players. Now, how exactly would you propose to fix the problem you are having? More experience/kill on an exponential slope in higher GRs? That will just set the plateau of speed farming higher. Removing paragon (800+ at least)? Capping paragon caps your character, which is the opposite of what paragon was intended to do. Unlock the other trees and spread more paragons in more places? Sure, but that's just another dump...
The main thing I keep seeing is that the power creep is too strong to ignore... which keeps people playing... which is what everybody wants? If you skip just one day of speed farming, does that mean that you can never hit the top 10 on leaderboards? There is a lot of skill involved in clearing greater rifts 50+... a lot of white mobs can 1 shot you if you're not careful. While your 1000 extra mainstay may help you kill them faster, that doesn't mean if they touch you, you don't die.
I'm sorry for the wall of texts, but I can't get over how many people are talking about betting/paragons... It seems like the community is just shifting and incorporating everything into 1 hot button issue. Paragon is fine, be competitive, do 1/2 speed runs, 1/2 pushing? Last I checked you still get experience for pushing.
It's interesting how many low paragon people accuse me of being jealous of high paragon players, call this "whining", or talk about solo vs group or botting issues. None of this has anything to do with this thread.
Yes it does, a lot of people complain that high paragons are achieved via malicious methods, which is tied directly to your original point.
Empyrian said it on stream yesterday. Gabynator wrote it on Empyrian's Twitch chat. I think both raised this concern on the official forums/Reddit.
Both names you brought up are known cheaters/exploiters. The other 'not so well known high-paragon players' can be dissatisfied and proclaim it to the stars.
At paragon 800, it looked fine. But once I got close to paragon 1000 I realized how stupid and boring it is. I could be happy over the 1000 more main stat I have - but I'm not. Instead I feel that the only thing I have to increase my character's power is paragon. This is supposed to be a loot-based game, but it turned into a paragon-based game.
Of course the system 'seems boring'... after 16 billion experience earned, or "every hour you play" you gain 5 primary stat... it's a power creep, not a jump.
It is a loot based game. I'd love to see the paragon 1000+ that clears 50+ in yellows.
Paragon is the answer to "What do I do when I have the best gear?"
The group or groups of players who choose to farm/leech experience, usually band together for 8-12 hour blocks and constantly farm. Should this play style be rewarded? Absolutely.
I agree that time should reward player, but not in way paragon does (adding a flat stat bonus), rather having time to try difficult things again and again.
After I'm geared, I want to spent my time pushing the GR record, not farming paragon and get my record in few try thanks to my paragon...
I don't quite understand... for each power creep there is a new level of difficulty, it's an infinite tower of Grift levels... So 50 was hard? Gain some paragon levels, now 55 is hard? Keep going... Now 60 is hard? Wow... progression? I realize that a straight power gain seems like "OMG that guy who spends 10 more hours a day than I do is better than me" but, face facts, it's a dungeon grind, the more time spent the better you'll be. The stash space and currency idea sounds like a great idea on paper, but again, falls too far off the radar in actuality to even be considered an idea. The streamers, the hardcore, all of it is useless without power creep. Reducing the effectiveness of Paragon points? Sure... or they could even unlock the other trees so you could put 350 points in life%. The current system how it is works as a progression tree, and as such, only the strong (or in this case those with nothing better to do) survive. Does this sort of system breed illicit behaviour? Does baseball produce juice junkies? Of course it does. Difference is that you can do it in the comfort of your own home.
Face facts people, for box value on RoS, D3 has received much more in terms of content, patches, quality of life improvements, and with even more on the way... for FREE. Quit finding things to pick apart and enjoy your journey.
0
Dear God,
Please forgive them, for they know not what they speak. And please, oh lord, allow this thread and threads like it to wither away and die as they should.
Amen.
Service is over, BG has provided us with the ammo we need to tear his entire thread to the ground, please leave in an orderly fashion or go down with the ship.
0
So wait, I'mma take a stab at this, you cleared a GR 60 with a conduit, and then updated your PTR build, and then couldn't do more than 20% with a conduit... first, if this happened, the way you say it did, kudos for breaking the PTR long enough to abuse a conduit pylon. second, the update would have reverted the conduit to it's new state, wherein the previous was not, making the first super powered against the RG, and the second a floppy sock.
Also, the hate mongering, not needed, the game doesn't suck, you do. "To rank I have to go fishing, abusers!, LAG ON PTR NOT VALID TESTING STUFF' ... shut it. It's PTR, and it's been that way since Vanilla WoW.
0
Pretty sure it's D4. I don't believe the hype that D3 is getting another expansion. Besides, if we're trying to read between the lines... It does say in the title line "Next hit game!" Not "Next new content patch/expansion"
Also note: they had a great send off for Kevin, so I highly doubt they'll go on by delivering a death blow to the franchise.
0
^ This.
Also, crafted items aren't required, and they are available from level 1 normal to 70 TX. Just levelling you're likely to grab up quite a few. This is a non-issue for almost every 'legit player'... Love how botting always seems to come with (insert new complaint here). Yes it's an issue, yes there's going to be a fix for it. Although, what? I'm not sure, still see people going crazy on console with outrageous things.
0
The best way to gear up on a fresh 70 w/o support from stronger characters (like in the beginning of the season) depends greatly on what class you are playing. If Monk/Barb/Crusader, you can achieve a good amount fairly quickly. The 'quickest way' to get gear quickly is probably the most painful, and requires time. Monk (for example) will yield you the best turnaround. Since you can achieve a build that requires no legendaries that can survive in t6, while it will take you a much longer time to clear a single t6 rift, the idea is to simply kill the RG, and collect the GR keystone. Once you have that, you can clear a GR1, (the equivalent to a normal rift, with t6 values on loot drops) let the timer slip past the 4:30 remaining, and then kill the RG, giving you a GR2 keystone. Repeat this process for as long as you can. You'll get GR9-13 before it becomes difficult w/o legendaries. Also, you'll pick up most, if not all of the legendary gems, which can also help you bump torment levels.
Your only other option is group play or loot sharing.
0
So by being unoriginal, you get bored faster? Hmmmm, logic. From your opening statement though, that's EXACTLY what paragon is SUPPOSED to be. You wanna see dedicated players flee the boat? Cap paragon and insert vanity items for playing 12+ hours a day. See how long it lasts.
No, you see 'low level' paragons saying everything is fine. You have high level paragons saying 'I feel like I have to farm to compete.' or "I have to wear a hellfire ring because reason 13234".
I don't really understand the problem that keeps cropping up... All I keep hearing is "It's too powerful to ignore". Agreed. "It's broken" it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.
Also, Vajet's main concern didn't seem like it was paragons or farming them, but that botting and farming rift trials and using support builds sucks. Which ties directly to another issue that keeps cropping up, and that's that support builds allow DPS builds to push higher, but I'll leave that one alone.
You have yet to prove the point you're trying to make. and every single comparison that has been made has been at least 150-1000 paragon level differences. Nonsense basically.
0
So huh? The last few posted are about reducing the amount of exp earned in higher rifts? What kind of backwards logic is that? If you really wanted to go into exp modifiers, why not just say you get 10x more experience for clearing a new grift level, and 5x more for clearing your top 3. The point is the 1% is the 1% and until you quit your job, disown your family and retire your life to D3, you will NeVeR be good enough to pierce through the top 10. Never. Ever. And if blizzard makes that a possibility, I for see the end of D3.
0
Thank you for your input, and saying the same thing... Literally watching people poste the same crap is tiring. You're talking about 400 paragon differences. Of course it's huge. Reduce your scope by at least 250 and then you might get on the same page as the rest. Should a p200 be as powerful as a p600? No, but skill can close that gap...
The he only thing that requires attention is gem levels. And the gem leveling process.
0
Okay, I'm gonna put this plain and simple. Yes, it's a power creep, yes botting sucks, but the increase is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
In comparable gear to Gaby, with any indiscretions aside, he's over 1400 now in S3? I'm not quite 800 yet, but comparing our characters, he's only got a sheet dps increase of 300k on me... 300k... the equivalent of an emerald in a weapon. That's almost double my plvl... for a gem, yes it's a decent boost, but still.
I have to agree with the casual players bit though, how long through S2 were the top tiers complaining about jailer? Now that the casuals have reached 40-50+ jailer's getting a 50% damage nerf? Yup. Caters to casuals, so what are we all worried about?
0
Ugh, I think I'll just leave this thread alone and let you guys pat each others backs... Gem levels? With the removal of perm CC, those GR70 runs are going to implode... that's not even 1% runs. I do agree that the curve on gem levels is harsh, in the same grift hitting for 3 levels you drop from 90% to 60% if successful? Ouch, but that's not point.
Play longer, harder, don't eat, don't sleep, leave your wife, kill your kids, get a bedpan. You'll be the best of the best of the best, sir.
So the difference between paragon 100 and 200 is inconsequent? or even 600 and 700? You're talking about 100 levels difference. if you were p1001 and looked like a joke to a p1010, then I could understand. However, 100? Good day sir.
0
Uhhhhhh... what? Are you saying that because your paragon 650, you got the last spot because of your paragon level? Do you miss the point of leaderboards?
In answer to your question, no, you are entitled to nothing. If the other guy is more skilled than you, he will do better than you, regardless of paragon level. To sum it all up, just no, to everything.
0
Okay, hold up... Now, I will agree that doing the same remedial tedious tasks over and over again gets boring. Season 2... 35's speed runs were the crazy thing to do, while pushing into the high 40's low 50's... Those were top tiered players. Now, how exactly would you propose to fix the problem you are having? More experience/kill on an exponential slope in higher GRs? That will just set the plateau of speed farming higher. Removing paragon (800+ at least)? Capping paragon caps your character, which is the opposite of what paragon was intended to do. Unlock the other trees and spread more paragons in more places? Sure, but that's just another dump...
The main thing I keep seeing is that the power creep is too strong to ignore... which keeps people playing... which is what everybody wants? If you skip just one day of speed farming, does that mean that you can never hit the top 10 on leaderboards? There is a lot of skill involved in clearing greater rifts 50+... a lot of white mobs can 1 shot you if you're not careful. While your 1000 extra mainstay may help you kill them faster, that doesn't mean if they touch you, you don't die.
I'm sorry for the wall of texts, but I can't get over how many people are talking about betting/paragons... It seems like the community is just shifting and incorporating everything into 1 hot button issue. Paragon is fine, be competitive, do 1/2 speed runs, 1/2 pushing? Last I checked you still get experience for pushing.
0
Agreed.
Stopped reading. I hope you mean with skill?
0
Yes it does, a lot of people complain that high paragons are achieved via malicious methods, which is tied directly to your original point.
Both names you brought up are known cheaters/exploiters. The other 'not so well known high-paragon players' can be dissatisfied and proclaim it to the stars.
Of course the system 'seems boring'... after 16 billion experience earned, or "every hour you play" you gain 5 primary stat... it's a power creep, not a jump.
It is a loot based game. I'd love to see the paragon 1000+ that clears 50+ in yellows.
Paragon is the answer to "What do I do when I have the best gear?"
Your points are all invalid.
1
I don't quite understand... for each power creep there is a new level of difficulty, it's an infinite tower of Grift levels... So 50 was hard? Gain some paragon levels, now 55 is hard? Keep going... Now 60 is hard? Wow... progression? I realize that a straight power gain seems like "OMG that guy who spends 10 more hours a day than I do is better than me" but, face facts, it's a dungeon grind, the more time spent the better you'll be. The stash space and currency idea sounds like a great idea on paper, but again, falls too far off the radar in actuality to even be considered an idea. The streamers, the hardcore, all of it is useless without power creep. Reducing the effectiveness of Paragon points? Sure... or they could even unlock the other trees so you could put 350 points in life%. The current system how it is works as a progression tree, and as such, only the strong (or in this case those with nothing better to do) survive. Does this sort of system breed illicit behaviour? Does baseball produce juice junkies? Of course it does. Difference is that you can do it in the comfort of your own home.
Face facts people, for box value on RoS, D3 has received much more in terms of content, patches, quality of life improvements, and with even more on the way... for FREE. Quit finding things to pick apart and enjoy your journey.