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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Let's just drop the idea then since it was confirmed anyways by bashiok...


    Originally posted by Bashiok
    I'm guessing you're saying this because I quoted one guy on twitter proposing this type of skill system and I said that it was a popular guess.

    Well, I think I can pretty safely say that we would never use that type of skill system.

    It works for some games, it just wouldn't work for us. We're dropping too many items, we're moving too fast, and we're opening up too many avenues for customization and re-customization.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Quote from "jinx.pt" »


    Not just that!
    How would you level up passive skills? Even if you had to 'activate' them (Barb's BO), instead of an aura, how would you raise that skill?
    Spam the skill? :facepalm:
    Are you replying to my post cause if you did, I would highly suggest reading it before doing so next time. Just to further prove my point I will quote myself to answer your question.

    And it would actually imply that you have to use a certain skill in order to level it up, or a skill related to it in the case of a passive.
    So try less face palming when your reading, it really helps.
    Quote from "jinx.pt" »

    You could 'tweak' it so it would gain exp when near monsters/whatever, but...How often do you use BO versus, say, WW?
    So who said you would need to use BO as much as WW to level it up. It's obvious that an attack skill would be used more, consequently it's leveling speed wouldn't be identical as to that of a passive or a Defensive one... I shouldn't even have to explain this, any reasoning being could come to this conclusion...

    Quote from "jinx.pt" »

    Higher exp gain when you use a 'less-used' skill? :facepalm:
    Different % of exp gain through usage of different MAJOR skill types such as Offensive vs Defensive vs Passives. So where's the problem>?
    Quote from "jinx.pt" »

    Seriously, Dungeon Siege's system was completely flawed. If I wanted to raise my healing skill, I had to continuously use it...and it wouldn't be enough, because I'd soon be at much higher level with my main attack skill, and healing would become even harder to train!
    TO 'solve' that problem, Dungeon siege added skills/spells/attacks to 4 different groups. Each skill/whatever belonging to a group, leveled that group's experience, instead of the particular skill.
    If you don't continuously need a healing spell WTF would you want to level it up for anyways... Could you come up with a logical example to demonstrate that their system is COMPLETELY flawed?
    Quote from "jinx.pt" »

    The only 'customization' you had in Dungeon Siege was which of the 4 (5?) groups you leveled. And god forbid you wanted to raise 2! You had to keep exping both, always, or you'd start gaining so little exp with your offskills, that you'd eventually just use one group, because it was more work then anything else.
    No one said it had to be identical to Dungeon Siege. Just a system based on the mechanics of exp gain through usage.
    Quote from "jinx.pt" »

    Anyways, skills leveling up with usage is a no-no: you have a lot less control on your build when doing that. If your use bash more often then WW, but wanted a strong WW for many mobs, how would you go about that? it just ruins builds.
    Easy, every time you reach a new level, they take into consideration every single skill you have used during the exp gaining process and give you the chioce of being able to level it. But you still only get 1 point. Therefore if during 15 to 16 I used alot of BASH and a few WW then I would have the possibility of leveling either one,not both, no matter which one I used most. But if I didn't use any of my leap skill, I will not have the possibility of leveling it up further. Of course taking into consideration that you already have the skill. Lvl 0 Skill would always be open to unlock.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Quote from "emilemil1" »
    Yes, and it contains 0 customization and interaction. You just attack and you get more powerful skills without ever even looking at it.

    And it has nothing to do with the way to aquire skills that the tweet was about.


    Whu? Oh, so what your saying is a system like D2 which (you just attack anyways) and up to one point then, you reach an experience level and get to choose any skill wether or not you have ever interacted with it is better?

    And no, most systems that enable experience upon usage do not level up without you knowing it. Plus they could regulate it so that it would only strengthen upon reaching the next level, depending on how much you have used it.

    IMHO this would be much more realistic. And it would actually imply that you have to use a certain skill in order to level it up, or a skill related to it in the case of a passive.

    And for that fellow who mentioned that if you respec you have to go about killing small baddies all over again. ... In D2, there were no respec and you still had to start all over again and beat up small mosnters to relevel a new char, so in comparison.....

    Plus it's so easy to fix, just make any skill point deficit level under the certain char level, exp faster through usage. Meaning if I was a level 80 Barb that just respecced, my skills would level faster ,up until the point where my cumulative of skill points got near my actual level.

    Then tweak that and make it balanced and voila@!
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Well, if it were the case that the more you use it the better you get at it, I would be thrilled. It's something that is way more realistic than any Skill system ever brought by D1 or D2.

    Plus it is nearly the same as Oblivion. many folks once hinted that they should consider the advantages of such a system but most people just kinda laughed it off since there's alot of hate for that game from people who just didn't play it the way it was meant to be played.

    I think it makes perfect sense to level a skill by constantly using it.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Books are cool and shit, all lore inspired and quite at home in Gothic Diablo esque worlds. But for some reason or another I just can't picture a 300 pound, savage, blood drenched, fully cuirassed, dual wielding barbarian taking a tea pause from his skull splitting badassness to read a book about how to whirlwind properly.

    It just doesn't work. No matter how you explain it, no matter what the excuse for doing it is. It cannot happen this way. It is pure madness.

    On the other hand I wouldn't mind seeing a wizard do such a thing as read a book. Now that would make sense. That would follow a certain logic.

    Which leads me to my conclusion that it would be real badass (sorry for using this word twice in the same post but it was very fitting)
    if they made a different way to level up skills for different characters.

    Kind of like the same principle they used for different (energy sources) for each char.

    I could picture the Barbarian getting a skill point up by killing meaner, greener monsters. Whirlwinding a Siege Assault Beast to death would sure as shit give you a level of WW.

    The Wizard could read books he gets from harder and harder monsters. The Monk could perform different combinations (katas) on certain monsters and unlock points for his skills. The witchdoctor could perform rituals or voodooism on slain foes or some other class relevant shit to get his skill points.

    This way it would make the characters feel more unique and really give them more depth than just a fucking nuke on legs.

    And obviously characters would have to perform harder and harder tasks to reach those skill points every level. And limit the ammount they can get, e.g. (1 -2 skill points per level)

    Your thoughts?
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Quote from "luc1027" »

    You argue about your idea from the start of this thread, you seem to be a kind of guy who can't participate to a game design brainstorm...
    Please no personal criticism and judgemental comments. This thread is a creative one, not spam. Let's keep it this way... Thank You^_^
    Quote from "luc1027" »

    I'm not the only one who post a logical argument that broke the possibility of your idea. But you continue to argue your idea with the same arguments.
    No idea is perfect, it just needs to be worked out.
    Quote from "luc1027" »

    YES it's could be great but it will not happen !
    Although your probably right, you still can't be sure so don't be so negative.



    I think books are cool, but seriously, I doubt that if you needed a book for every level up it would be very appreciated. However, what if there were very (and I mean VERY) rare books that had a drop rate of a ZOD in D2; that would enable someone to level a skill past it's limit break. 20+ Maybe up by a few levels or to level 30.

    With the help of this book you would be able to put skill points in your favorite skill to have it extra powerful. And this way, without the book, you wouldn't be able to pass skill level 20. Even from magical means such as items or gear that do + to skill. The gear would work but wouldn't be able to get your level past 20 unless you had read the book.

    WW Mastery Book.
    FireBall Mastery Book.
    etc.
    The ultimate reward for the MFer or simply the lucky guys.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    Quote from "emilemil1" »
    Do you realise how much time it would take to create a useful/unique effect for EVERY skill combination?

    U realize how much time they been, and still have to work on it....

    Though, It doesn't necessarily mean that I am really thinking it could be done or not on Diablo3. It's Not like most of the stuff people talk about out here is taken seriously anyways.

    Guess it's just to share what we believe might be cool ideas. ;)
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    I was thinking of another idea that just came up. It was really based off sinergies. i was thinking how great of a concept it was when kept as such. When applied didn't turn out as good as it was made out to be.

    How about if we took that concept a little further by directly linking skills together. So basically this would mean that a player would choose his main skills and have them linked together to create new skill effects.

    This would make nearly every skill usefull in the way that they would complement each other as well as create a way for the player to get more for his buck. It would only be done with none passive skills.

    For example, if you mixed whirlwind with that smash skill it would create a new version which would spin the character and as soon as you released the button, your character would simultaneously perform a big finish to his WW by smashing the ground in front of him.

    Kinda like the combo from God of War. Basically chaining different skills together for various effects. A zombie dog linked with wall of zombies would create a pet that attacked targets and upon a successful hit, zombies would come up and hold him in place to further enable the player to deal ranged damage to it.

    Fire Bomb with Terror would create a bomb that replaced it's fire damage with a terror effect. Notably usefull for clearing out some potentially deadly monsters from a room without having to go in and suicide.

    Those were just a few examples so to try to get the idea out there.

    What u guys think?
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Could The Skill Tree Be Gone Forever?
    I got this idea that just came to me as I was reading this discussion on books vs skills that you guys got going on.

    Now the idea is very rough, since I haven't given much though to it. Instead I'm just going to write it out as it appears and let you guys sort out the details.

    Since the beginning of time, (or RPG games) there have been skills. Skills are leveled up by clicking on them upon the gain of a new skill point.

    Click* +1 to skill.....Skill reaches next level and thus goes up in strength with all kinds of predefined levels of usefulness.....

    What if , upon reaching a new level, we would be given the choice to level a certain perspective of a skill instead of a skill as a whole. This would mean that instead of....

    Click* +1 to Fireball = +damage, +radius, +fire, etc....

    We first unlock the spell or skill (maybe with a quest/prerequisites or even class specific books) then every level we gain we are given skill points (not the same as D2 skill points) but simply points that would be used to directly level up certian aspects of skills.

    (Reach a level) +20 Points

    Click to customize whichever skill you need to customize...

    For example, I'm a wizard, I like using a mix of teleport and disintegrate.

    I use a tactic that heavily relies on placement and focus fire to eliminate large groups standing in a row with a direct beam.

    So I could choose to level my tele speed, or distance and level up the disintegrate range in order to maximize the ammount of monsters I hit per cast.

    I use this tactic for a few levels since I notice it's doing good, but then when I enter a new dungeon I notice that my spell power is lacking. So I then decide to spend the next point on damage instead of range.

    All boosts could also be complemented with drawbacks. More range could mean less width of the beam. More damage could mean more mana usage per second. More width could mean a slower cast speed. etc etc. This way, it could prevent users from becoming too uber in a short span of time by simply leveling one skill. And it would make sure that we wouldn't end up maxing out a skill by level 10.

    I wanna write some more but my wife says we gotta head out, so I'll let you guys talk some more about it.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Griefing, Health Orb Mechanics and More with Jay Wilson
    Don't know why LinkX had to come himself and post to remind everyone what's been said countless times by Blizzard in many interviews; "there will be NO pay to play or game content in D3."

    Those might not be the exact words, but that's just cause I'm too lazy to find quotes and copy paste.:P Besides, you guys shouldn't have to be reminded all the time.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Griefing, Health Orb Mechanics and More with Jay Wilson
    Some people are so stuck in the 90's it's unbelievable.

    They would go to the ends of the earth just so Blizzard could give them a 3D version of the same game, D2. It's stupid and counter-progressive. Plus it just shows a general fear of failure and a lack of faith in the company that has given them games to play for the last 15 years.

    PvM is awesome. But it gets old fast since monters never evolve or adapt to the player's skill level/ builds. Therefore when they start to optimize characters, the monster just get easier and easier.

    PvP on the other hand is thrilling. Reminiscent to playing PvM on hardcore. Where the fear of death is ever present. Although dying in PvM hardcore results in loss of character (heartbraking, maybe) but a loss in PvP means a blow to your ego.(much more serious).

    Noone likes to lose. Hence why the competition level is so high. PvP has always been an important part of D2 no matter which way you look at it. Even a PvM only player with half a brain would admit that alot of folks were doing it. Thus the reason why Blizzard is trying to improve on it and make it something more than a sideshow (as it was in D2).

    They are trying to give it features, meaning, order. A properly developed ranking system would enable things such as internaitonal tournaments to take place and would make the Diablo world exponentially larger. Imagine th epossibilities, imainge the bragging rights of winning against all odds.

    That's the kind of vision Blizzard has and the kind of spirit Diablo needs to remove itself from the ARPG (cheap story/clickfest) stigma that it has, and truly become a competitive/user friendly game it should of been a long time ago.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Wizards New stoneskin name
    1. Perma-Shine
    2. Candy-Grillz
    3. Mr.T
    4. Supa-Greazy-O-Crispy
    5. Ballistic Kevlar Vest, aka (BulletProof)
    6. Stone Skin (what....it's a good name)
    Posted in: Wizard: The Ancient Repositories
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    posted a message on Diablo III Side Quests- Will the Myriad be Worth It?
    Quote from "milanv" »
    I see this the other way. I would like to have quests which are Griswold's Legacy rare :) not literally but I'd like NOT to be able to complete them easily or in a short time at least.

    also, since we'll have achievements, I hope there will be one for completing all the quests and it shouldn't show how many you have left. of course, after some time left with a few really rare quests you'll just stop hoping but that's all the fun for me. imagine the joy of finding it in the end :D

    That idea you got of rare quests is cool enough...
    I mean, Items can be rare, so why not quests? Right...
    Plus that just means you won't be going through all of them in a month's time.

    And with quests being randomized, I think we should be getting a couple of hundred of them, no?

    Not all of them being radically different, but some being other variants of the same quests.

    (that's just me wishing out loud... o_O)
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Auras to Return in Diablo III?
    Quote from "cherd" »


    What's the point? It's a sequel, the predecessors are the only point of comparison that are available. People want a certain amount of consistency and familiarity from one game to the next. They want an improved version, but a version that retains the positive qualities from the old games that they loved so much.
    I respectfully disagree to the first part. ^_^ (The back part is totally right)
    I believe that such thinking results in bad sequels.
    I don't think they need to compare at all. Instead, simply take the
    good points of the last game and improve on them. Like you said.

    No matter if it is similar or "feels" the same as the previous game. So by saying Auras, people automatically assume there will be a repeat of D2. But what they are not thinking, is maybe they just used a familiar term to actually create something totally new, but possibily "based" on the old concept.

    You can call it comparing games, I call it evolution. I think the later is more productive. :rolleyes:


    Quote from "cherd" »

    It may be silly to say "auras are only for pallys". But, I think that the people you are referring to are trying to make a slightly different point. That being, if the designers want to try so hard to include characteristics akin to that of the paladin, then why didn't they just retain the paladin as a character class?
    In response to the second part, I don't think the designers are "trying so hard to remake Paladin Like Skills". They just wanted to make party friendly skills available to a character and maybe decided they should also be called Auras for the lack of better terms. :confused:

    Which brings me back to the "you are comparing" , they are "evolving" idea.

    That's like saying since they are "trying so hard to make sorceress like skills why don't they just call the Wizard, a Sorceress...."

    You see where I'm going? Don't compare and say, well it feels similar so it should be the same.

    Thus answering the last part, why dont they just retain the paladin?, cause it's a new game and they mostly agree on making new chars... It's not cause they have a few familiar concepts that they should give everything a Diablo2 Tag Name on it.

    Quote from "cherd" »

    By posting here we are not attempting to tell the game designers anything, we are merely discussing the topic amongst ourselves.
    Although I agree fully, I do also realize that most hardcore players are even more aware of the existing problems and also need'nt be reminded constantly. Drawing conslusions and saying "OMG, people will abuse auras again" without even knowing what auras will look like in D3 is pretty pointless. But I do agree that for discussion sake some can state the obvious and pass it for an opinion.:P

    Quote from "cherd" »

    If sharing diminishes the effect of the aura to the aura'd character, then it's not necessarily a "no brainer". Sharing may be the appropriate thing to do from a strategic standpoint during group play, but it would require an unselfish act by the aura provider.

    This very "soft solution" was already put up, and already answered to..

    If by sharing auras they decided to reduce power, then it would become a no brainer to NOT share it and instead boost the individual character (Monk), since Blizzard are making all of them EPIC anyways. Not like they will cry about not having a small boost from the "hypothetical" Monk Auras.

    Consequently making sharing Auras totally redundant. That's all hypothetical though.

    Wow, that was a pretty solid hijack from Auras to Armors. :D

    Anyway, I'd really like to see the monk in proper armor. Equipping my monk with a seemingly heavy armor, represented in-game as some kind of loincloth, would be a huge disappointment to me. I think the key would be to make monk armor look heavy, but still "mobile". I think both the Amazon and Assassin armors in Diablo II pulled this off reasonably well.

    I'd prefer to see something similar for the monk.

    To my understanding, that's pretty much what Blizz meant. Equiping heavy armor that will respectfully be visually implemented as ornate clothing/armor to lighter characters. Not shiny plate mail. Which would be rediculous. I don't think however that we should worry much about it since it's been what Blizz has been doing althrough the Diablo Franchise.

    (D1 - Rogue, and Mage could wear Full Plate that didn't look like FPM)

    (D2 - Barb, Assassin, Sorceress)

    They all had believable armors IMO.:thumbsup:
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Auras to Return in Diablo III?
    Same as usual,
    Come on a thread and reading a handfull of comments
    doing nothing but comparing D3 to how D2 was. What's the point?

    I played D2, yeah. The Pally did have auras. But when I stop and
    really think about it, why the hell would he? Why should a knight
    have auras? It doesn't make any more sense than saying a monk
    has auras. They are both just as likely candidates for mistical
    powers of the mind/Holy.

    I just don't get how people come on and say "F*ck that, auras are only for pallys".

    If it where the other way around and D2 had a monk, they would be saying the same thing about the Paladin.

    ________________

    Bottom line is, Blizzard thinks auras "might" be a cool thing for D3. They trying to make it fit on the Monk.

    I would bet my right nut that they know about the silly issues from the D2 era, in other words, they don't really need folks to come on saying how a Bowazon with Zeal+Might was OP. And I'm sure as shit that they are implementing something cool with Runes, keeping the aura factor balanced at the same time.

    ----PS: Totally agree with Luckmann on his last post, for once.---- ;)

    It's a no breainer that unless soloing, everyone would go for a rune that made your aura apply to the team if it wasn't so by default.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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