DiabloFans

Haven't posted in over 6 months, took a dumb ass topic like this to bring me back....*sigh*


Reply to Wardzy
Leechers are less of a problem since everyone gets different item drops unseen by anyone else. They are an extra person in your party which (i presume) means you get more experience for the kills anyway. No one can 'steal' items anymore. So the fact that they are gaining exp by doing nothing... i dont see how that could be annoying in the slightest tbh.

Finally someone who makes a relevant comment that's post related.
The issue ain't about MF, since MF is item related and items will be limited to
your own drops. So why the shit ya'll posting about MF?

It's about whinners again finding something to complain bout. Let's analyze shall we.

The Whinner:

"OooOoh, I just can't stand that mean mean leecher, he's just standing there
staring at meh allll day."

The Mean Pro-Leeching Blizzard:

"WTF? This guy got his own drops, an added exp boost from the evil leecher,
and the possibility to password his game, what else do we need to do?

The Mattheo Cure!
Just give him a pacifier and get this show on the road for christ' sake.

Next subject, this topic is a dead one.

Quote from "Strills" »

I LOVE destructible terrain, but I don't really care if monsters will be able to use it against you too.

Would be cool and stuff, but it wouldn't add anything to the game imo.

Yes it WOULD be cool if they could. But how in the name of Diablo could you say that a whole new level of realism wouldn't add anything to the game? That's like saying the whole new graphics engine won't add anything and the 3D won't add anything either. Might as well take those out since we won't be needing them. Hell, we could take out the environment damage that skills do while we are at it, then copy D2 programming codes on top and voila!

D2 all over again. Yeah I'm sure it won't matter much since technological progress doesn't add anything to the game. Thanks for your brilliant point of view.

I know I wont be using chairs and chandeliers to kill monsters during the whole length of D3. I know after a while I won't be paying so much attention to the environmental damage. But just the fact that its there makes this game that much more interesting. It's like saying since I don't look at the trees everyday when I go walk outside than we should remove them since they don't add much excitement to my life. Imagine how fucking boring life would become without it. (Plus the fact that we would die from asphyxiation) Usually it's the small things in life (the details) that makes doing something not so mundane. And I believe this is critically important in a game where you have to repetitively kill monster after monster to get to a bigger monster (Boss) that you must kill to progress onto harder monsters. Just saying it out loud makes you realize how nearly pointless it is.


That's why people want graphic representation of their gear when they put it on. Not because they will really be looking much at it when they are fighting hordes of monsters, but just because it's fucking cool and that's what gaming is all about. If you ask me and most people out there, if the Barbarians in the Bloody Foothills in Act5 of D2 were useful and in anyway added to the strategical aspect of the game, the answer would be a resounding NO. They were fucking dumb and ran into walls. But if you asked me which area is more exiting to go through, The Great Marshes of Act3, of the Far Oasis of Act2 or any other, I would tell you Act 5 by far. I hope I don't need to tell you why.

Quote from "simon2909" »

Perhaps this is something that sounds cool but would be annoying as he said, i mean... do we really want monsters dropping chandeliers on us?

I don't know about game design but the extra calculations sound like lag in the making (for the monsters aiming at players with objects).

Man that's just being dumb. It's not that monsters will "throw" chandeliers on us but shit if your standing under a chandelier then your just asking for trouble or acting plain stupid. I think that if the player can use the environment then the monsters should logically be able to do the same. (If physically possible) Meaning I wouldn't picture a Zombie reaching the chandelier but if there was any type of magic using creature that aimed at you and accidentally hit it then it should fall or break. If a giant brute swung a huge club and hit a table it should splinter just as the barb's swing would make it do. In this way you really feel like its a breakable environment and a real battle. If giant creatures thrash and clobber and you have nothing but a breeze to indicate they did, I think it would detract immensely from the game's realism and feel.

I think a part of the game's epic feel should be the monsters, not only the hero. Yes, an epic hero is cool, but a cool hero fighting epic monsters (a la God of War) is even better. I hope blizzard won't be giving us another bunch of " Blunderbores". In case your not a D2 player, that was the highly anticipated gargantuan beast sporting a man's body as a club to beat the player down to pulp. Unfortunately turned more into a large Italian sausage that melted like butter as soon as you farted on it. The only indication that you were hit by one was the fact that your char would get slightly knocked back a few inches. It didn't do it justice by far....
:mad:

Now Blizzard actually has the technology and engine to make destructible environments. They should use it to make the monsters feel ...."Monstrous". It's as plain as that. Make the ground shake, make it splinter, break tables, walls, drop chandeliers. As long as I can break a sweat while I'm fighting then I'll know Blizz did a good job.

Yeah Necronergal, I get what your hinting at, which was actually quite successfully (designed) and implemented in Oblivion. They really made a system that reflects the player's fighting style by accordingly raising his stats. It is logical however who can really predict if it would be good in a D3 system/game. We would really have to get serious and analyze the pros and cons on it.

Quote from "FingolfinGR" »

Your example wont be that valid, because we had level restrictions before. So this time we'll have a chance to use gear to get to the stat needed before the higher level that we would need to use it with the base stats. Usually in Diablo 3 we had the stats needed to use, say Stormshield way before level 74. But we had to wait. Now if we manage to get stats off items we'll be able to use them right away.

Which do you like more?

Actually your point is totally valid, because I didn't write about the level restriction but of course I was refering to an example withing a D2 setting that therefor would have such requirements, not on stats alone. I do agree with you that level requirements are equally important, however....

What I am trying to say is you really have to put yourself from a (d2 LoD) perspective where in the end, noone was really playing the game on a whim, they all knew what builds they wanted and excatly what would be needed to achieve it before even creating the char.

However if you are playing D3 for example, where you don't exactly know the premium items for your build and the perfect combo of stats, you will be leveling on what you think is a necessity. In the case of D2, if someone was to do that, he would 100% most definately end up with a char that either wouldn't be able to wear anything (too much into vit/dex/mana) not enough STR, or a char that would be able to wear everything he wanted (if he can find them) but he would get murdered in hell due to lack of VIT. He would be like, well shit..I just spent 200+ points into my barb's strength, expecting to need it, and it having a prominent effect on my char, when in fact it was a total waste of points and char cuz the 200 STR points do absolutely nothing apart from an insignificant damage boost..

So D2 was really really misleading people on that point and made it terribly easy to create an unsuccessful character.

So the only option really was to follow someone else's footsteps that knew the presets for the build. It really takes out the creativity from the game. Therefor agreeing with you on the point that, yes ,although we shouldn't be able to cheat our way into wearing items due to major stat boosts, but if Blizz implemented other restrictions than stats/level it would greatly help the system they are currently running.

All in all, I think we are actually on the same mindset, unless I understood wrong. We are more or less saying the same thing.:thumbsup:

And Psykosis, I really think the point you made definately supports what I'm saying.

I like the ability to focus my skill points into certain areas that give me advantages for the characters fighting style I'm trying to create

I think everyone has this kind of opinion when it comes to RPGs and character development. People love to be able to affect their chars with their decisions when they level up. But D2 was a perfect example of that NOT happening. It was prone to a "preset way" of building a char. Like I said, Stat Points didn't really affect the char all that much in most case and really helped in creating unsuccessful builds. Especially when you compare it to other good RPGs out there. A little disapointing. So unless they revamped the whole stats system for D3, I think auto stats would do just as good if not better than what D2 offered.

That's what most of you guys don't get out there. They aren't dumbing down the game as you so brilliantly put it...They are removing bad aspects of D1,D2 and recreating the same addictive features in more user friendly ways so that we can get to the fun without the hassle of going through unnecessary steps. It's called progress. If Blizz listened to most of the folks out here they would be making another D2 expansion and retweaking the same old game that we've all had enough of.

Stats were totally pointless, IN A D2 SETTING, meaning they could of had been usefull if implemented in say "a full fledged RPG like Baldur's Gate or Oblivion" where statistic greatly affect the player's capabilities. It just wasn't the case in D1 AND D2. And no, wearing equipment does not count as a usefull reason to have the stats feature either. And don't gimme that "oh but it's realistic to need STR to weild big weapons" crap... If these kind of games were build on real life there would be a million things that the player couldn't do.

Realism is basically implemented in the graphics engine and that's about enough. The rest is fantasy and make believe. Don't try to bog the game down with realism.

Stats in D2 were mainly considered as "restrictions" (equip necessity) and alot of the gear revolved around what you needed to get to where you must be. (+ to Strength Equip). And unless you had the optimum gear (mainly Runewords) that massivly boosted almost every aspect of the character, a casual player would find himself wearing gear not for efficiency or performance but by obligation. Ex: Oh I have to wear IK belt so that I can use this weapon. My merc must use this crap ass helm cause without it he can't use the kickass polearm that I got him. So this greatly limited customization since one was forced to wear specific gear. Now I'm not trying to say that players should be able to wear any gear without having to worry about character balance. For example, this helm has resist, however that one has life/mana leech. These kind of choices are good since they really balance out the player and not make him uber in every aspect. However being restricted simply by stats is totally pointless, since it has no balance value. The Barb will hate just as much as a sorc to add STR so he can use StormShield, but in the end, they can both wear it. So stats really don't get the job done. Then you add the factor that every build had "Set attributes" to max efficiency (mostly; 80 STR, 100 DEX, 300+VIT) and this made that a player would depend solely on items since he won't be boosting his STR/DEX to over 150+ without compromising his char in Hell mode. It really locks down choices and stops player creativity.

Stats customization= Bad Choice (unless in a completely revised system)
Item Bonuses = Tried and True.

Whoever says comparing should not be done is irrational. Comparing is one of the prime motivators for change and improvement. It pushes people to look and strive for originality. It's everywhere in history, sports(player to player), government (policies), everyday life (fashion). It's one of those things that make society and people evolve. So why the hell shouldn't people compare D3 to other games when in their own creation and development, they themselves have been compared to their predecessors and thus were interesting and original.

Every great game pushes the standards higher and make gaming as a whole "better". So it is only logical that Diablo 3 be compared to other great games in the genres of "Action, RPG, Horror, etc." And not just to itself. I don't believe that Blizzzard in making this game are only looking to cater to a Diablo1,2 Fanbase but also to attract new players from various other gaming spectrums.

Is it just me or did you guys notice that since BlizzCon started, there was a huge flow of new subscribers in Diablofans.com who just came on simply to hear the news and blast at anything they didn't think sounded right. Most of you guys haven't even read all the discussions about the systems that will be implemented in D3. Don't even take time to listen properly to what is being said at BlizzCon. Like that dude who was blasting Dimebog about "who says there's gonna be skill customization".

Your just flooding these threads with retarded comments. It's rediculous. Anyways, you guys are all smoking something big if you think you can direct the development of this game better than the people who are currently at the job. You come on here and complain about a non-customizable stats menu when you don't even know the basic reasons behind this change or the complexities linked to this game mechanic. You don't know what was developed in accordance to it, so to bring balance to a game that previously lacked in it. It's preposterous for you guys to go and say right off the bat "Oh! you just killed half the fun in Diablo" when stat allocation wasn't even part of the fun. It was a system poorly balanced that contributed no small part to the problem of homogeneous characters builds. You think skills are the same on bnet chars...try looking at the stats and tell me i'm wrong , please, I beg you.

How fun is it to have someone else tell you what to put in your stats so as to have the ultimate performance in your character.? Strength which was absolutely useless exept for the wearing of gear which could be bettered by instead changing gear requirements/availability and a puny ass damage bonus (maybe if a weight system would of been in place , strength might not have been so totally meaningless. Dexterity which was totally useless after breaking the 150 mark for perfect block since AR would mainly be gained from item bonuses or skills/auras. Plus tell me how many people really counted on AR to hit things when they had NON-AR based skills, ie; Lightning Fury, Charged Strike, etc. and any skills which do need AR usually give about +300 to 400 % bonuses to AR after reaching a certain level around 20+. Only the bowzon (which was nerfed and therefor mostly abandoned in the later patches) really could benefit from Dex in once again a small insignificant boost in damage which AGAIN didn't outweight the VIT/Life factor when it came to playing in Hell Mode. She could just as easily use the runeword bows + act2 merc to enhance her damage with Pally auras that would make 500+ Dex look insignificant.

Vitality is rediclous, I dont even have to explain when you start seeing sorcs running around with more tllife than a tank. And this is a perfect example of "hey lets all be the same and pump 300 points in it!" Guys are complaining that Diablo2 became a clickfest, toe to toe fighting with absolutely no strategy needed aside from good char build and massive damage output and a nice supply of pots (life leech didn't hurt either). BORING

Energy....Has there ever been a more useless stat...? I can fix that! Mana Leech+Mana Recovery + Mana % items and there u go! Not like any skill was too mana costly to actually do a dent in your mana reserve, well not when u got 11% mana leech on a 5K + damage output.

So no, stats where always the same for all ((Hammerdins/Elemental Sorcs/Javazzons/Druids/Barbs, etc)) but a few of the most successful builds of D2; The so called cookie cutter builds.....

follow this format ===>60-80 STR, 80-100 DEX 300+ VIT. , 0 Energy

If stats ARE fixed, I'm more than positive that Blizz found a way to make D3 char customization totally surpass D2 in every aspect.
If this is just a temporary thing, then even better, you won't have to complain so much and we won't have to listen to you guys trash talk possibily the best game of the decade.
. Guys stop sweating it, like many have said before and will keep saying, this is Blizzard, they know what the f*ck they're doing when it comes to games.

Quote from "wyvie" »

It could be that they've expanded on the Barbarians fighting out in the world idea, which seems likely given the way the trailers pan out and the "mercenaries" that you pick up along the way.

Yes I'm positive that they have expanded on this theme. However......
I don't agree. Monsters are monsters, fluff is fluff (Barbs on Blood Moor), Mercs are Mercs. They are distinctive things and I don't believe that he would go from saying Quote* "It would be naive to think that with all of the creatures, demons, and monsters in the world of Sanctuary that they'd all purely be concerned with killing you and you alone." to actually meaning NPC's and fluff. I doubt it could be interpreted that way, unless rampaging Barbarians and Mercs are now considered creatures/Monsters.

Quote from "wyvie" »

It'd be interesting to go to the Amazon's home, for instance (yeah, I know we're not going there), and find them slaughtering away.

Even if what your talking about is a totally different idea, I think this theme was not forgotten as it used to be a popular feature in Act5, so yeah even if we don't visit this area we will be seeing alot more NPC's on the field. If we can choose to invite them as Mercs that's an issue that will have to be seen in the near future.

Quote from "InterrogatorChaplain" »

I cannot wait to see a mission in which you run into a den of some native wildlife that you need to defend from the invading demons attempting to destroy this particular "endangered species", like the last uncorrupted wendigos perhaps, they were pretty badass in D2 lol.

Yeah the mission would be given to you by a Green Peace representative who would reward you on completion with a free Mercenary weilding a picket sign reading" SAVE THE WENDIGOS".

.....:confused: Sounds positively thrilling!

Would they however insert uncorrupted wilderness such as "creeps" from Warcraft 3 who are considered part of the world however are neutral so therefor unaligned with either side of the war. This could prove more interesting since they would as likely attack a monster as they would do to you. Kinda adds a level of realism to the usually "empty" world that Sancutary used to be.

I mean if you go back and really take a look at what they gave us in D2, you start to realize that it was utterly deserted. Some people will say," yeah but it's a demon infested world". This could pass in a game such as D1 where the story mainly unfolds in a near deserted town, with a long abandonned horadrim cathedral. However in D2 we visited alot of different areas of wilderness and cities such as Lut Golein with no armies fighting outside, no wild animals or creature aside from monsters.

Most people don't usually mention this, instead they usually point out how happy they were when they reached act V and went through the blood moor, and spotted a few barbarians. Although they were near useless, especially in hell, they made the game that much cooler.

Quote from "Dimebog" »

What gives you the idea it would be for the masses? Just the attendees obviously.

No one is giving me an idea, that's why I said *Quote* "I hope". Meaning it's what i wish that would happen, not at all having any relation to what Blizz is actually planning. "Obviously"
:confused:

Riddle me this, if D3 was playable at BlizzCon 2009, would it afterwards be released as a full fledged demo available for download? Or would it exclusively be held at BlizzCon for a 2 day beta testing....?

*Hopefully the afore mentioned*

Man I'd have to say those mother f****** stygian Dolls from act 5 Baal Throne Room in Hell Dificulty. It's just rediculous to be able to be one-two shotted by an exploding monster after it has died. But even more rediculous is the fact that those little bastards could really hit hard when in numbers so there wasn't that option of not killing them, and if you decided to run they would most definately outrun you or you would lose sight of them which can be even more dangerous. I've even seen those buggers catch up to a teleing sorc on short distances, and just when she thought it was safe to launch that cold orb, BAM!...she was gone!

If you beat em you die, {and with the ammount of HP they had, you could fart in the wrong direction and blow one up} P
If you don't beat em you still die eventually...
soooo, where exactly is the fun suppose to be?

I have this gut feeling that you guys are having collective dillusions about this demo.....
I mean they have barely even spoken out on most crucial game mechanics and have been saying that they "haven't resolved this issue yet" or "haven't gotten around to creating those". So I'm here asking myself, how the hell would they put up a playable demo at this point with so much substance lacking.....

I mean I ain't trying to be the pessimist of the group and "see the glass half empty" but it just sounds too "fast" for Blizzard. But I'm praying to God that I'm dead wrong and Blizz do come up with a playable demo for the masses! haha

Well you have to keep in perspective that maybe not all creatures in Sanctuary are from hell. Essentially you have your "Archetype" enemies classes such as; Undead (skellies, zombies) who aren't from hell but just hellish souls posessing the bodies of the dead, Demons (Fallen, Balrogs) who are your typical straight outa hell monsters and then I'm thinking that (and in accord to Sol Invictus *by the way did u take ur name frmo akhenaton's album*) the animal spectrum which has been corrupted to a certain degree by the presences of the Prime Evils on earth would resemble what we are seeing now such as Dune Threshers or Scavengers.....

So I mean, instinctivly there would still be a food chain amongst the beastiary population of Sanctuary...On the other hand, monster Friendly Fire might not necessarily be from monsters actually directly assaulting each other but more like a side effect of frenzied or ravaging monsters joining the fray.....
As an analogy: Try doing a jig in a crowded nightclub while holding a 30 Pounds Sledgehammer and not hit anyone then you'll get what I mean...:D

For the Mon vs Mon thing, I think it's about damn time . This will really add a whole new level of realism in D3 and in the action/RPG genre. I mean it's not like this concept hasn't been around for a long time, even Baldur's Gate 1's enemies often friendly fired themselves with fireballs and poison clouds, etc. I understand the fact that area effect spells and direct friendly fire is slightly different, however the outcome is the same.

Glad to see Blizz still pushing the standards up on ARPGS this time around.

For the Inventory system, what I'm imagining is something really simple kinda like (again Baldur's Gate2) where they had this one slot item system with a tiny partial icon of an item and when you pointed the cursor over it, it popped up a floating menu with a whole array of information such as; Artwork, Description, History/Fluff, stats, etc....

It's feasable and hell, shouldn't be too hard to do since they've been doing it for nearly 10 years.