Based at a article i read somewhere i've created this tread.
Think about it and post ! The 5 monsters you REALLY want to come back in D3.
I will start:
1. Diablo 1: Stalkers. Those are the guys that becomes invisible and attack you.
2. Diablo 1: Advocate. Those casters that teleported like crazy, in such infernal way that you must use stone curse to face large groups of those.
3. Diablo 1: Overlords. We need the butcher to come back. Fresh Meat !!
4. Diablo 2: Flesh Demons. My favorite d2 monster.
5. Diablo 2: Venom/Pit Lords. Those are the perfect way to show a classic demon without fall in the commmon place.
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- italofoca
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Being an living bot is not entertainment imo. And being a living bot is the only way you will ever have any income in D3.
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I make more then that playing poker or mtg. And i'm a bad player.
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I'm surprised by those 3 folks with 60 years lol
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Pro players should take 80 hours or so to beat it. Good players will take around 120... Avarage will take 160~200. Bad players won't do it.
If it takes more time then that, i will be surprised. If it takes less time then that i will be disapointed.
I think i will beat it in 120~140 hours since i'm something between good and ok. It should take me 2 months or so.
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Bad Medicine also protects your party friends while jungle fortidude don't.
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Not a fun of doing 4 play throughs, imo 3 is the perfect number... Inferno should be just some kind of elite playground for end game farming...
Yeh, but this will work for me too.
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Based on the new info about Inferno difficulty, it seens D3 will be a game centered around progressing in an very difficult setting, not farming. In this scenarium, the speed in which you kill monster is irrelevant, killing monsters and bosses and progressing, no matter how much time you take, is what really maters as end game goal.
Don't you guys think using 2 min abilities at every "peak fights" and wait for the cooldown to reset will be an validy strategy to advance through inferno ? You will take quite a time to beat certain dungeons, but you have higher chances of doing so. Maybe in the end you will do it faster then if you're not using your cooldowns and getting beated down all the time.
I don't think i've to point out how bad this would be...
Do you think this is a valid concern ? No matter the answer, don't forget to use your brain and post the reasoning behind your answer !
thnx
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http://us.battle.net/d3/pt/calculator/wizard#aZSjgR!WYT!abZaZZ
Find me a DH build who does more damage then this one against a single target.
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Wizard too.
Prodigy is another great buff too, don't forget about that.
And by doing that you loose your defensive abilities resource (in case you use preparation for that) or use smoke screen, which costs alot of discipline and return mediocre hatred return.
In one case and in the other, you can't use those skills to contanstly keep up hatred renerator unless you want to die for the lack of discipline.
Elemental arrow is really good, i will give you that. But it nowhere makes DH an glass cannon and a Wizard a inferior "glass cannon", which is the entire point of this thread.
Yeah, but you're not seeing how little this advantage is.
i. Those generators only recovers 3 hatred per use, in an 125 hatred pool.
ii. You can only generate it if you have targets. It simply doesn't count in out of combat situations.
iii. Wizard can reach similar standards too. Prodigy + Rune makes him recover 7 AP of 100 AP pool. Loosing damage in signature spells is a small burden for the wizard since his AP regen is awesome and he count on his spenders much more frequently.
My entire poitn is, Wiz, out of all classes, is the one who can who has the best resource regen. Only I idiot would not accept that.
My math skills are terrible ?
First, the OP is the one thinking in one dimension (damage dimension - he only compared the weapon damage % of two skills). I"m the one adding multiple dimensions to the problem (time and resource dimensions).
Second, if my math skills are terrible, yours are inexistent. Saying "you didn't take factor x, y and z" in consideration without measuring the impact of those factors in the final result is ridicolous statement. Or you calculate stuff and show me the numbers, or you assume they are irrelevant and shut up about it. Phylosophically concerning about a billion variables without working on the mathematically is no math skill, it's actually the opposite of it. Ever heard of model theory ? I put my hand on fire you haven't.
I'm saying since my first post, if you want an final mathematically correct conclusion about this problem, build an simulation with all variables. You will find out that the DPS differences between WD, Wiz and DH in an two skill simulation are irrelevant (the Wiz wins by an small margin, using Ray of Frost and Spectral Blades combo).
You will also find yourself comparing different builds, not differen classes.
And the wizard does not take 20% more time to SK. If you're taking this time is because you're newbie and don't know how to build an character, not even in the beta. Get 40 DPS gear, pick this build http://us.battle.net...ard#aZdY!Z!a..a and go kill SK. You're problably kill it as fats as a monk, a barb and a DH. You won't do it as fast as WD because of Soul Harvest and Haunt.
Again, this is not a discussion on "how wizards are not dpsy enough" but how Soul Harvest is ridicolously strong.
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Still you're enable to do that. Because you don't realise a wizard can cast 5 or 6 meteors in 20 seconds while DH casts 2 cluster arrows (3 max). You don't really in D3 we're more limited by resources then by time (when it comes down to use heavy resource spenders).
Well if you don't want to take resources in consideration and just compare weapon damage % thats your problem. I've given enough reasons why this analysis is wrong and you refuse to present any arguments against that. I'll just assume you've none and are just too stubborn to accept yo'ure wrong from the start.
It depends on what you call 'Glass Cannon'. If you mean the Wizard can't do huge burst damage I will have to agree. Unless you use Archon of course (which have two 1000% weapon damage abilities).
But the wizard generally can sustain really high DPS, higher then any other class, because he can much more freely spam his resource spenders abilities.
The low level WD cannot be compered to an wizard, because WD's mana pool and skill costs increase with levels, but not his mana regeneration. Low level WD = Wiz when it comes down to resources. But as he level ups, he resource start to look like what we're familiar with.
An high Wd will not be able to spam his firebats at each single fight, like a wizard do with arcane orb. He simply can't regen his reosurce as quickly and automatic. Even if he gets other tools, those tools are also limited. In even simplier words:
Under "balanced resource rules" (which means playing your class trying to keep your resource bar full at the start of the next fight) an WD can't use firebats or zombie chargers at each single enemy he faces, but an wizard can use arcane orbs almost at will.
And wizards CAN be the glass cannon. He has more damage buffs then any other classes. His the only class who can trade defensive abilities for several damage buffs. Ex: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#aZYSjg!WYT!bbcZac
This build has sustained +71% end damage multiplier. If enemies are frozen by frost nova your multiplier is +104%. If you're inside slow times area, it is +124%. Now if you trigger Arcane Dynamo it is the ridicolous +293% damage multiplier. The wizard is the only can who can TRIPLE his damage, if he chooses to abandon a few defensive options. and he has the strongest single target ability in the game, Ray of Frost.
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You can't compered Wiz and WD regen because the resource system in those two classes are too different. Wiz have small pool but regen faster, Wd have large pool but regen much slower. The only way to compere those two classes is by doing simulations.
Care to even quote what "sweeping assumptions" i'm making ?
Other methods of regen are important, i agree. The DH for exemple can regen his hatred using basic attacks w/o runes and other passives, unlike the wizard. Still, the only way to analyse it is by running an two skill simulations.
Care to remeber other classes have access to other methods of regen too, not only the WD and the DH. I'm assuming all effects besides the basic stats are simetrical (by simetry I mean, if one class can double his resource gain with items, any other class can do that too). Thats not an heavy hypothesis once this game is built in symetrical way (all classes are equally gear dependent, by design). Unless you show some evidence gear (or other factors) affects character's differently you can't use that as arguement.
Until that day, talking about gear/passives/rune effects in this thread is 100% moot point once those mechanics are available to all classes and theres NO reason to think one of those features will benefict a class more then the others.
And all my post said was, in small words:
You can't compare the the weapon damage % of two different skills without taking resources in consideration. When it's the skills of two different classes you have calculate the cycle (which takes in consideration resource maximun pool and regen). An easier way too do analyse is see how much time the class takes to get back the resource you spend on that skill and divide the weapon damage by that number (which represents the DPS of the skill under balanced resource use).
Now if you want take everything in consideration (gear, passives, maximun resource pool), run a simulator or shut up about it.
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An class shouldn't be able to euip a weapon it does not have animations. Monks should use claws / staves only.
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Wizards recovers 10 per second, thats more then twice. If wizard uses similar skill (Arcanot Familiar) he reachs 12 per second.. If he picks astral Presense, he reachs 14 AP per second, doubling the DH's amount.
Theres no comparison, DH hatred are far more limited then an wizard's AP. You can throw items in the mix, but wizards have items to buff too, it's moot point.
Wizard's spell cycles are much faster then the WD and DH one, thats why he have "weaker" spell. Because his "strong" spells are much more frequent.
I don't have any idea what those calculations represents. WD's maximun mana pool is 740 and he has an constant 20 mana per second regen at all levels.
He can cast 5.3 bears with his full mana (740/140). However his mana regen is super low compered to wiz. While an wiz takes 3.5 seconds to fully recover the AP used in casting Arcane Orb, the Which Doctor takes 7 seconds to recover the mana spent in the zombie bears.
Also you're assuming the WD casts 3 bears, each one dealing 236% weapon damage (for a total of 708%!). Thats much problably NOT the case because you don't know if the same bear can hit a target twice and you don't know how the bears behave etc... Sure, if WD are able to cause 708% weapon damage in area using only 140 mana thats plain simple OP.
In this case it's not the wizard whos too weak. It's the WD, particulary, his Zombie Bear skill, whos too strong. 708% is the kind of damage that only appears in skill with 30 seconds or more of cooldown, NO WAY he will be able to use that as standard spell. It would make Wd stronger then any other class in the game and force him to use only this skill because it is at least 4 times better then any other skill available in the game.
I'm not taking gear and spec in consideration because gear and specs are at dispoosal of all 5 classes. It's moot point. If an DH can triple his hatred gen with gear, theres no reason to think the wiz can't do the same thing.
Taking only the base stats as basis for our analysis, you can cleary see the wizard uses his spenders with much higher frequency. The most expensive ability for the wizard is meteor and it takes 6 seconds to recover all the resource spend there.
The most expansive WD spell is Locust Swarm and he takes entire 19 seconds to recover the mana back. DH takes 12.5 seconds to recover the hatred spend in Cluster Arrow (less if he have targets to use his generators, still you're wasting time using an "weak" generator ability while the wiz can fuctionaly spam arcane orbs non stop).
Wizard uses his strong spells far more frequent then any other class, thats an fact. His not weaker then other classes. He can kill boss as fast as other classes just pick the damn ray of frost skill or arcane turrent.