Sad... I guess you missed out on what made Diablo I so enjoyable.
It was the constant sense of danger and fear of the unknown that made that game so revolutionary.
really, its sad that you missed out on that!
Go draw a hot bath. Go ahead, do it right now. Try to get into the water, and you may notice its quite warm, maybe even hot. Its a tad uncomfortable but you slowly slide in. It feels warm and refreshing. What happens after a couple of minutes?
You suddenly get use to the hot water and that warm feeling is gone. You might even try the hot water faucet again, to make it even hotter but alas, its as hot as it will go and thats too bad because you want that feeling again. Only way to get that feeling again is to get out of the tub re-adjust and to go back into a hot tub...
Same thing with the atmosphere of the game, if you sit in darkness the whole game, suddenly you get use to it, its expected, and atmosphere is NO longer a tool you can use to convey emotion to the player since every place looks the same.
Its like listening to a song that only plays the same note, painting all the walls in your house the same color, eating all your food with the same seasoning....
It's a world of blandness that is ok for some sophmoric developer who doesn't know any better but any real developer would know better.
Maybe the whole point is CONTRAST. If it always looked that way, how would you know the atmosphere was becoming more sinister and the room was darkening to summon the monster?
Any connoisseur of beat-em-up games knows about the elevator level. That level where you are at a stationary spot but HORDES of monsters keep attack you and you have to fight em off. I was wondering, would that type of stage layout work for Diablo 3?
For example:
Imagine a level where you are inside a Volcano/On a frozen sea, and the piece of ground you are standing on breaks away. Even less exaggerated a level where you are on a boat or mine cart or something.
While you are on this decently large vessel, constant hostile fauna/demons assault you while you are on this and to facilitate the random nature of areas in Diablo you could land at various random points throughout the area for a different quest or have random types of monsters attack your or random bosses each time you go through.
I know this is something that may not mesh-well with Diablo's semi realistic nature but Its just a thought that would add some flavor to the level design of the game.
What do you guys think? Have any other level styles that you would like to see?
I personally think everyone is excited about the game and are talking about things that are really of no consequence.
I can't imagine people are HONESTLY that upset over art direction and are probably just trying to prove points just to prove them than just the issue at hands. Is a bunny going to make you uninstall the game and demand a refund?
Man I wish there was way more information available for the game so we would have more stuff to talk about than make big deal of unimportant things.
Looked fine to me, only part that bothered me was the Barbarian has more particle effects on his skills than all the sorceress spells from D2.
I wish i had particle effects in real life. I mean, in which scenario would you feel more like a badass.
1) Swing your sword and hear a slight wooshing noise.
2) Swing your sword and watch a kinetic wave appear in the air, see fire trail from your sword, with thunder breaking in the distance, the the cackling of an evil robot wizard in the background while he is summoning his nuclear war beast with machine guns and gamma rays for arms while riding a motorcycle with chainsaws.....
Good debate. Since we are both on the boards, let me ask you this question:
Do you feel as though the current AoE we saw hits too many monsters at once, or not enough?
Its hard to gauge how these shown skill scale but it appears that the aoe might be a little too large. I like the fact that its aoe but I also wouldn't mind it being very tactical. Kind of how like fire wall or that fire walk skill is more tactical than the final Ice orb spell that just murders an entire room.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
Yeah....notice how Titan Quest wasn't even as good as Diablo 1. Titan quest had no point for 3D graphics other than looks. Age of Conan?
1.) Age of Conan is an mmo played from a "behind the back" camera view. Diablo is isometric and is not an mmo.
2.) Don't try to pin this onto Age of Conan. AoC is hardly the first game to use 3D combat physics. (Devil May Cry, God of War, Oblivion, Plus 1,000,000 others.)
Blizzard made no mention or showed no signs of this combat system you speak of.
I know they showed no signs, im saying i hope they do not do it. Also i know other games, AoC was the last piece of crap i played with a multi-hit system. I know its not the same game style.
My point was that its not an evolution of graphics change, but a design choice, specially when diablo 3 is still an isometric game at heart. Blizzard will choose whether or not to use single target attacks or use AoE attacks only.
It appears they are leaning towards majority AoE attacks. Will single target attacks be gone? Doubt it.All skills haven't been shown yet.
Do I wish they would? Yes, even if its simply just to reduce stress on my body, let alone add more mayhem to the game.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
Yeah but I always thought of this change to be an ordinary change from 2D to 3D.
Those melee skills from Diablo 2 are pre-programmed to always hit 1 person because the game is 2D and will run more smoothly that way. However Diablo 3 is in fact 3D and will have a more advanced 3D combat system. Meaning if the enemy is in close enough to get sliced, he will be sliced.
Standard meele attacks still seem to only hit one foe at a time though.
Its a total design choice. Look at Titanquest, their game is '3D' yet a majority of the melee skills are single target, there were single target skills and AoE skills just like Diablo, there was no collateral/adjacent damage a la Age of Conan. and alot of their melee skills were based off regular attacks.
On a side note, I REALLY hope Blizzard does Not implement that system (attacks based off autoattack), it was absolutely terrible. If you do not know what I am referring too here is an example:
They would have attacks where on the 4th swing something cool would happen, or the more you attack the more damage you do but it dies down if you dont kill fast enough. My least favorite were the ones where it had a XX% chance to proc off of autoattack. I think it would increase the fun factor if you made all offensive attacks activated and tolerable if only some of the defensive skills are passive.
I would like to feel I have control over the tactics of my character and not a hidden dice rolling in the background.
There should be some form of upkeep for both realms of the game. It would be unfair to require PvE'ers to pay upkeep to play (repair costs, other gold sinks) but whine when you say you don't want upkeep for PvP.
The big difference between WoW and Diablo is that gathering gold is so integral into the core gameplay of Diablo it wouldn't be so outrageous as it is in WoW, where gold gathering (efficiently) does not occur within standard gameplay.
Besides, as you mentioned briefly, WoW does have upkeep costs to pvp....Consumables, food/drink, Repair. Even though they are small, they are gold sinks, and thats what would help diablo 3 keep the economy from super inflation. These sink's don't have to be huge, as long as there is some drain on the economy.
I thought about that as well, but the big time pvpers would do nothing except: farm gold/play tourney/farm gold/play tourney/get bitter about having to farm gold/quit D3.
Thats horrible logic. If that were the case, people would NEVER play mmo's because they had 'farm' something. People still play Diablo and farm the HELL out of that game. I mean after you see the diablo story, and lets assume you aren't into PKing, what else would you do....farm! Gaining gold is part of the game in D3, and I would assume people wouldnt be upset at having to play diablo to gain gold.
Also, you are assuming its going to be some amount of money large enough to require large amounts of grinding to achieve. A gold sink can be something small as buying arrows to something as huge as buying a house. Doesn't have to be bank-breaking.
Even though it looks like a lot less monsters at once, they look far more strategically placed.
Instead of random monsters pouring in from the edge of your screen they appear to be placed with the grunts up front, the damage dealers in the back, or lots of minions with the resurrecting mastermind in the back (like Fallen but better placed).
Back on topic, I really hope they do not bring back the single target attack. Its actually counter diablo if you think about it. The whole idea is your this overpowered hero cutting through swathes of demons (maybe angels in d3) and sending em back hell, always outnumbered. You should be able to obliterate them in large numbers and picking them off 1 x 1 seems like a waste of time, physically painful and just in contrast to the image of a hero beating back legions of evil.
Well thats not exactly true, depends how you implement it. I mean, Vegas betting area's always make more than they pay out. If you model it after that you can have people that do have a chance of earning money, but engineer it so that more often than not they lose money and therefore it becomes an entertaining money sink.
Add things like entree fee, betting odds, low ceilings on how much you can bet. Especially fi you start having stuff like 4 person FFA, your odds on winning become alot worse.
Man, i love posting on msg boards at work, makes the day go by much faster.
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I just re-read, i still cant figure out what he is asking.
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Go draw a hot bath. Go ahead, do it right now. Try to get into the water, and you may notice its quite warm, maybe even hot. Its a tad uncomfortable but you slowly slide in. It feels warm and refreshing. What happens after a couple of minutes?
You suddenly get use to the hot water and that warm feeling is gone. You might even try the hot water faucet again, to make it even hotter but alas, its as hot as it will go and thats too bad because you want that feeling again. Only way to get that feeling again is to get out of the tub re-adjust and to go back into a hot tub...
Same thing with the atmosphere of the game, if you sit in darkness the whole game, suddenly you get use to it, its expected, and atmosphere is NO longer a tool you can use to convey emotion to the player since every place looks the same.
Its like listening to a song that only plays the same note, painting all the walls in your house the same color, eating all your food with the same seasoning....
It's a world of blandness that is ok for some sophmoric developer who doesn't know any better but any real developer would know better.
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You wouldn't.
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For example:
Imagine a level where you are inside a Volcano/On a frozen sea, and the piece of ground you are standing on breaks away. Even less exaggerated a level where you are on a boat or mine cart or something.
While you are on this decently large vessel, constant hostile fauna/demons assault you while you are on this and to facilitate the random nature of areas in Diablo you could land at various random points throughout the area for a different quest or have random types of monsters attack your or random bosses each time you go through.
I know this is something that may not mesh-well with Diablo's semi realistic nature but Its just a thought that would add some flavor to the level design of the game.
What do you guys think? Have any other level styles that you would like to see?
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I can't imagine people are HONESTLY that upset over art direction and are probably just trying to prove points just to prove them than just the issue at hands. Is a bunny going to make you uninstall the game and demand a refund?
Man I wish there was way more information available for the game so we would have more stuff to talk about than make big deal of unimportant things.
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I wish i had particle effects in real life. I mean, in which scenario would you feel more like a badass.
1) Swing your sword and hear a slight wooshing noise.
2) Swing your sword and watch a kinetic wave appear in the air, see fire trail from your sword, with thunder breaking in the distance, the the cackling of an evil robot wizard in the background while he is summoning his nuclear war beast with machine guns and gamma rays for arms while riding a motorcycle with chainsaws.....
Yeah #2 would be awesome!
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Do you feel as though the current AoE we saw hits too many monsters at once, or not enough?
Its hard to gauge how these shown skill scale but it appears that the aoe might be a little too large. I like the fact that its aoe but I also wouldn't mind it being very tactical. Kind of how like fire wall or that fire walk skill is more tactical than the final Ice orb spell that just murders an entire room.
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I know they showed no signs, im saying i hope they do not do it. Also i know other games, AoC was the last piece of crap i played with a multi-hit system. I know its not the same game style.
My point was that its not an evolution of graphics change, but a design choice, specially when diablo 3 is still an isometric game at heart. Blizzard will choose whether or not to use single target attacks or use AoE attacks only.
It appears they are leaning towards majority AoE attacks. Will single target attacks be gone? Doubt it.All skills haven't been shown yet.
Do I wish they would? Yes, even if its simply just to reduce stress on my body, let alone add more mayhem to the game.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
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Its a total design choice. Look at Titanquest, their game is '3D' yet a majority of the melee skills are single target, there were single target skills and AoE skills just like Diablo, there was no collateral/adjacent damage a la Age of Conan. and alot of their melee skills were based off regular attacks.
On a side note, I REALLY hope Blizzard does Not implement that system (attacks based off autoattack), it was absolutely terrible. If you do not know what I am referring too here is an example:
They would have attacks where on the 4th swing something cool would happen, or the more you attack the more damage you do but it dies down if you dont kill fast enough. My least favorite were the ones where it had a XX% chance to proc off of autoattack. I think it would increase the fun factor if you made all offensive attacks activated and tolerable if only some of the defensive skills are passive.
I would like to feel I have control over the tactics of my character and not a hidden dice rolling in the background.
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The big difference between WoW and Diablo is that gathering gold is so integral into the core gameplay of Diablo it wouldn't be so outrageous as it is in WoW, where gold gathering (efficiently) does not occur within standard gameplay.
Besides, as you mentioned briefly, WoW does have upkeep costs to pvp....Consumables, food/drink, Repair. Even though they are small, they are gold sinks, and thats what would help diablo 3 keep the economy from super inflation. These sink's don't have to be huge, as long as there is some drain on the economy.
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Thats horrible logic. If that were the case, people would NEVER play mmo's because they had 'farm' something. People still play Diablo and farm the HELL out of that game. I mean after you see the diablo story, and lets assume you aren't into PKing, what else would you do....farm! Gaining gold is part of the game in D3, and I would assume people wouldnt be upset at having to play diablo to gain gold.
Also, you are assuming its going to be some amount of money large enough to require large amounts of grinding to achieve. A gold sink can be something small as buying arrows to something as huge as buying a house. Doesn't have to be bank-breaking.
Open your mind.
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Instead of random monsters pouring in from the edge of your screen they appear to be placed with the grunts up front, the damage dealers in the back, or lots of minions with the resurrecting mastermind in the back (like Fallen but better placed).
Back on topic, I really hope they do not bring back the single target attack. Its actually counter diablo if you think about it. The whole idea is your this overpowered hero cutting through swathes of demons (maybe angels in d3) and sending em back hell, always outnumbered. You should be able to obliterate them in large numbers and picking them off 1 x 1 seems like a waste of time, physically painful and just in contrast to the image of a hero beating back legions of evil.
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Add things like entree fee, betting odds, low ceilings on how much you can bet. Especially fi you start having stuff like 4 person FFA, your odds on winning become alot worse.
Man, i love posting on msg boards at work, makes the day go by much faster.