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    posted a message on The RMAH Destroyed Diablo 3 and I Told You So

    A few points:

    1. This isn't some "after the fact" rationalization which Zhaph claims it is. The quotes were from before when Blizzard decided to remove the RMAH, and some were from even before launch.

    2. Medea294 is incorrect to say that everyone knew the RMAH was a bad idea except Jay Wilson. In fact, many people defended the RMAH and some of those people are quoted in the OP.

    3. As for me not buying the game. That doesn't mean I don't know what's happening in the game. I still read and watch news.  I didn't buy the game because of the RMAH. I would be a hypocrite if I did buy it. I didn't even buy the game when they announced the RMAH was being removed, I only bought it yesterday, AFTER it was removed for real.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The RMAH Destroyed Diablo 3 and I Told You So

    The RMAH has been removed.

    It was glaringly obvious from the very beginning that the RMAH, which legalized buying items and gold for real money, would destroy Diablo 3 and that it would make the game pointless. Yet Blizzard and the RMAH defenders, who have now proven to be utterly and irrefutably wrong, supported the RMAH by desperately clinging to debunked arguments, even as it was clear that the RMAH was ruining the game.

    Many other people, including me, explained that they were wrong, but Blizzard and the RMAH defenders were too dense and arrogant to listen to reason.

    Let's look at some of the totally WRONG arguments they wrote.

    First, they said that the RMAH was made to combat third party sites by legalizing the buying of items for real money, which people were going to do anyway.

    Blizzard:

    Acquiring items has always been an important part of the Diablo series, but the previous games have not had a robust, centralized system for facilitating trades, and as a result players have turned to inconvenient and potentially unsafe alternatives, such as third-party real-money-trading organizations. Many of the transactions between players and these organizations led to a poor player experience and countless customer-service issues involving scams and item/account theft, to name a few. To that end, we wanted to create a convenient, powerful, and fully integrated tool to meet the demand of players who wished to purchase or sell items for real-world currency, and who would likely have turned to a less-secure third-party service for this convenience.

    Source: [url]https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-general-information[/url]

    L0ckless:
    tired of ppl crying about the ah. would you rather that ppl still bought crap off of chinise farmers? it was gonna happen weather bliz added in the ah or not. you dont like it then dont use it, pretty simple.

    Source: [url]http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/29239-from-a-year-ago-how-did-d3-and-the-rmah-turn-out?comment=2[/url]

    paroxysm2010:
    i think the point people are missing is in most major rpgs people will buy and sell items on ebay anyway, so why not make it part of the game?

    nothings changed here, instead of people buying items on ebay, they are using the RMAH

    Source: [url]http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/29239-from-a-year-ago-how-did-d3-and-the-rmah-turn-out?comment=7[/url]

    dcemuser:
    Welcome to capitalism? I mean I'm serious, trading money for time and vice versa is completely standard in almost all aspects of life.

    It makes sense it would transfer into gaming as well.

    People are always going to do this. If you're rich enough you won't care about its legality. It makes sense for game makers to legalize it, remove the scamming aspect, take a 5% profit from it, and destroy all the gold selling sites by making their service better.

    Source: [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/301467-do-you-agree-with-item-gold-buying?page=2#38[/url]

    WRONG. Destroy the gold selling sites? What the RMAH accomplished was destroying the game. Of course, I told them that the notion that Blizzard should allow players to buy items for real money by legalizing and facilitating it because players were going to do it anyway is stupid because their dumb argument would imply that Blizzard should allow players to buy bots for real money by legalizing and facilitating it:

    Blizzard should sell honor farming bots.

    People clearly want honor farming bots considering how popular they are.

    And they can make a buck by selling them, instead of forcing players to go through shady 3rd party sites to get their hands on these bots.

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926855094?page=19#379[/url]

    How did Blizzard and the RMAH defenders respond? They couldn't. They were not smart enough to think of a response. They had no response at all.

    Legendaîry:
    And this is why I won't waste time explaining to you why your comparison of botting to an AH is absurd. You're being downright irrational.

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926855094?page=19#379[/url]


    Next, they used the argument that it won't affect you if you don't use it.

    Analysis:
    It's terrible how many people are QQ'ing about this feature.

    1.) It won't affect your gameplay in any way. At all.

    2.) It's an optional feature..which means you don't have to take part in it.

    Do I really have to say more?

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926885066?page=23#442[/url]

    WRONG. Even Blizzard has now rejected this completely wrong argument.

    When we initially designed and implemented the auction houses, the driving goal was to provide a convenient and secure system for trades. But as we've mentioned on different occasions, it became increasingly clear that despite the benefits of the AH system and the fact that many players around the world use it, it ultimately undermines Diablo's core game play

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10974978/diablo%C2%AE-iii-auction-house-update-9-17-2013[/url]

    And even I told them that this argument, that the RMAH doesn't affect you if you don't use it, is completely bogus because the RMAH makes the whole game, all of it, pointless:

    I've never played D3 and never will.

    I don't get what's so hard to understand. Consider the following 2 questions:
    1. Why play D3?
    2. If I play D3, can I just ignore the RMAH?

    In order to ask question 2, you must first ask question 1. The answer to question 1 is, there is no reason to play D3. The game is pointless. Therefore, question 2 is moot and irrelevant. Question 2 doesn't matter, because there's no reason to play in the first place.

    To see why the answer to question 1 is that the game is pointless, consider what the point of D3 ultimately is. To make a character with good gear? Why bother, you can just buy the best gear with real money. To farm for good gear? Why bother, you can just buy it for real money. To collect good gear? Again, anyone can buy the best gear for real money. To kill Inferno Diablo without using the RMAH? Why? What is the point of gear? Is the point of the game to beat people in PvP? There's no PvP, but if there was, again people who buy the best gear would win. Every possible reason to play D3 is defeated by the point that anyone can buy the best gear off the RMAH. Therefore, there's no reason to play the game in the first place, and hence no reason to ask question 2. The game is pointless, it would be a waste of my time to play such a pointless game, so I don't.

    Source: [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/369764-blizzards-comments-on-activison?page=7#126[/url]


    Then they said that the game won't be destroyed. We should just trust them on that?

    Legendaîry (yet again):
    Most the people whining here won't buy it when it first comes out. But a few months later they'll pick it up (hypocrites that they are) when they see that all their predictions about the AH destroying the game was just them being Chicken Little.

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926855094?page=20#390[/url]

    Bashiok:
    I realize there's going to be some assumptions that this is sky is falling/slippery slope, as always, but a real money auction house is something we think will work for Diablo III because of the way the item systems work.

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926885066#8[/url]

    Herrow:
    1. They are a company. They were always in it to make money in some form or another.
    2. They are trying something new and it will probably work.

    Source: [url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926855094?page=17#323[/url]

    WRONG, again. It destroyed the game so badly that now even Blizzard has admitted their mistake and flipped-flop on the RMAH in an attempt to fix their mess. The RMAH has proven to be a catastrophic screw up of epic proportions, the most idiotic and foolish game design decision that Blizzard has ever made:

    I didn't buy D3 only because of the RMAH. And I won't ever buy it because of the RMAH.

    There is no point in playing the game because of the RMAH.

    Why play? To make the best character? All you need to do is to buy the best available items off the RMAH. To collect the best gear? You can just buy it off the RMAH. To trade with others? The only trading is buying things off the AH. To PvP? The best way to successfully PvP is to buy the best items off the RMAH.

    Every reason to play the game is killed by the RMAH. There's no point in playing.

    And I don't play pointless games.

    Can anyone give me one single reason to play D3 with the RMAH?

    Source: [url]http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1144230-I-feel-digusted-by-D3-RMAH?p=17120067&viewfull=1#post17120067[/url]

    Even the Korean government agreed with me by banning the RMAH and banning the sale of all in-game items, citing the main reason why I hated the RMAH:

    In your face, Blizzard.

    Korea is going to ban selling in-game items for real money and botting, with a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison. And the reason they've cited for this -- the reason I used to argue against the RMAH in D3 -- games are not real life, games are for fun.

    Selling items for real money destroys fairness in the game. They even mentioned that this was done because it was unhealthy for gaming culture.

    Korea has decided to ban trade for commercial game items from the second half of this year as a measure aimed at encouraging students to not waste time.

    The Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism has announced that it is planning to halt all virtual item trades with a new law, to be announced sometime next month.

    “The main purpose of the games is for entertainment and should be used for academic and other good purposes,” said Kim Kap-soo, head of the ministry’s content policy division, Wednesday.

    The government official also stressed item collecting for commercial use is a serious hindrance to creating a healthy game culture. [...]

    Source: [url]http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/06/129_112964.html[/url]

    Source: [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/345366-korea-makes-rmah-botting-and-item-sales-illegal#1[/url]


    With the removal of the RMAH, Blizzard and the defenders of the RMAH have been proven to be wrong about everything on the RMAH and its effect on the game. They have no creditability left. Their wrongness destroyed the game.

    If only Blizzard did not listen to these stupid and debunked arguments, Diablo 3 wouldn't have been so bad, received so much backlash, and be so completely pointless, as it has been since launch.

    With the removal of the RMAH, Diablo is once again a game where buying items for real money is not legalized, where rich people cannot buy the best items for real money without risking a ban for violating the rules, just because they're rich enough to spend the money. The game is now more fair.

    Equality of opportunity is restored.

    Diablo 3 can look forward to a better future.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on From a year ago... How did D3 and the RMAH turn out?
    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/25718-the-future-of-item-selling/page__st__140#entry982142

    One year ago, we had this discussion...

    This was before the announcement of the RMAH. The last post here was 20 July 2011. Coincidentally the RMAH was announced on 1 August 2011 (http://www.mmo-champ...eal-Life-Money!).

    And now that Diablo 3 has been released, it seems I was wrong about Blizzard never supporting selling items for real money. But I've been absolutely correct about everything else, mainly on the fact that it destroys the whole point of playing the game.

    As Kripp said what is the point of this game, when credit card warriors can just buy the best items in the game, and for what? What for? The game is pointless.


    And when Sixen, author of the thread, and the biggest Blizzard fanboy is criticizing the game lack of endgame, i.e. the lack of a point to this game, then you know that Blizzard has really fucked things up.


    So, one year on, I feel vindicated in being proved right that Diablo 3 has no point and RMAH makes the game pointless.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Quote from shaggy

    http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Data_table

    -----
    The use of tables is pervasive throughout all communication, research and data analysis. Tables appear in print media, handwritten notes, computer software, architectural ornamentation, traffic signs and many other places. The precise conventions and terminology for describing tables varies depending on the context. Further, tables differ significantly in variety, structure, flexibility, notation, representation and use.[1][2][3][4][5] In books and technical articles, tables are typically presented apart from the main text in numbered and captioned floating blocks.
    -----

    PERVASIVE. You are beginning to get pedantic and argumentative over things which don't need to be argued. "Data table" is not some made up term that no one has heard of for fuck's sake.
    Can you read the title of your own link? That's a table, not a "data table".

    The phrase "data table" is not conventional. In fact, it's a term that you've made up.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Diablo III Developer AMAA, Update on Auction House Commodity Sales (Working on US servers), Account Security Alert: LinkedIn
    Quote from Leonaras

    Joke post? April's fool? The moment I read that line, I actually believed I was reading a troll post in the wrong section. Bashiok stated the exact opposite, they conveniently delete it and now they're saying this. Come on. Lying through your skulls here.

    Come on, dont let your species down.

    Bashiok stated that the item drop rates were designed around the auction house, for example;

    Since the auction house exists in d3 they had to tone down base droprates for everything, because if they did not the entire thing would be flooded with thousands of legendarys/decent items.

    In no way did he state that the auction houses current load effected drop rates in game, he infact shot down that claim when it was first made. But it seems people who are decided on whining missed the logic train.

    The reason that comment is even in the patchnotes now is to debunk conspiricy theorists such as yourself.
    Except now they contradict even that.

    The AH was NOT accounted for in even the base drop rate.

    "The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development we didn't have an Auction House, we all played using our own drops only."

    Therefore, now they're saying that they did NOT TONE DOWN base drop rates because of the AH's existence.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Diablo -- Mission: Accomplished?
    No. Diablo did not succeed. To suggest that Diablo doesn't really want to destroy Heaven because then there would be nothing left to do is based on no evidence, in fact, it contradicts Diablo's threat to Imperious that he is going to destroy Heaven.

    Diablo at this point is Team Rocket, blasting off again.

    "I'll get you next time, Gadget, next time."
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    Quote from paralleluniverse »

    Quote from Zhaph

    Quote from Azjenco

    Firstly, he is a human. The words mortal and human are essentially synonymous.

    I have to disagree with you. "Mortal" simply means "can die;" the fact that all humans are mortal does not make the word "mortal" synonymous with the word "human." Mortal is a quality, a description, not an entity.

    In the context of the game, when an angel says "mortal" they certainly mean to refer to a human, but in the context of our wider world, there are plenty of other mortal creatures.
    Next, you're gonna tell me that "quick" is not a synonym for "fast". "Quick" means high speed and "fast" means to not eat. Therefore, "quick" is not synonymous with "fast".
    No, because fast and quick are actually synonyms, human and mortal are not. Mortality means you are susceptible to death. Humanity is a specific species. Being mortal is a description, i.e. humans are mortal, but not all mortals are human. So you can be a moral human, or are you trying to tell me that if Zoltan Kulle attained immortality he would no longer be human... No, he would be an immortal human.

    Does any of this make any sense to you? Because clearly everyone here understand that, you're the only one who can't seem to grasp this concept.

    This is a fantasy realm. Ever noticed illusions in the game? So, you'll find that acceptable, then how are you so resistant to a being taken on the form of another? Is it impossible in your realm of thought to imagine that a powerful being such as an Archangel of the High Heavens can shift one form to bind it within another? You must find fantasy a very challenging subject to understand.

    Quote from paralleluniverse »

    Leah- "You, chose too be one of us..."
    Tyrael- "Thus I fell willingly; because humanity is the only hope for this world."

    ^ There it is in black and white.
    Actually, this proves my point. Leah said he was one of us, as in mortal. She didn't in any way refer to him as human. Tyrael said he fell willingly, now notice the semicolon, this means a break from the first thought to add another point onto it. Then he said humanity has the greatest chance to overcome the evil. Did he in anyway say, I became human, because only as a human can we defeat the evils.
    No, he stated that he fell willingly, as in left the angels by choice, because he knew they had no chance to stand against what lies ahead. He added onto his point that humans are the only hope to defeating the evils, which is why he chose a mortal shell to aid them. In no way did he call himself human.

    Abal_Darkwind summed up your arguments best:

    Quote from Abal_Darkwind

    Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it isn't possible.
    ...
    Did you not see that or are ignoring it because you did not like what you saw?

    Time and again we show you reason, and prove the point with in game referencing. Just because you claim it's not true, or you don't understand what we're saying doesn't mean its not so. The game itself is proving your statements wrong.
    http://dictionary.re...&src=ref&ch=dic

    mortal
    [mawr-tl]
    noun
    13.
    a human being.

    But no, fast and quick are actually NOT synonyms. Fast means to abstain from eating, it's got absolutely NOTHING to do with being quick, are you illiterate or what?

    One of us means human. Or is Leah not a human? The semicolon was added by the poster, this is speech, there is no literal punctuation. Are you simply thick? Now, you're analyzing invented punctuation marks to decipher meaning in the story of Diablo? You've gone insane.

    Quote from Azjenco
    He added onto his point that humans are the only hope to defeating the evils, which is why he chose a mortal shell to aid them. In no way did he call himself human.
    No. Just no.

    He left Heaven because he didn't like their non-interference policy.

    "But if our precious laws binds you all to inaction, then I will no longer stand as your brother."

    How much more times must you make things up, imprint your own fantasy meaning onto the story, and be serially wrong, before you have no creditability left.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Abal_Darkwind

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    - "Tyrael appeared human for one reason: because divine/angelic Justice had failed, so he become the embodiment of mortal Justice."
    Two problems here, firstly what does divine justice failing even mean? Imperious doesn't like Tyrael interfering, but Imperious doesn't decide what is just, Tyrael does. Secondly, saying that this is why he become mortal justice, if such a thing even makes sense, assumes that it's possible. It is not possible. Tyrael cannot become a human, or a mortal being that looks exactly the same as a human.

    No, if you had paid attention at the beginning of the game, Imperius did try to define what is just. . .by putting Tyrael, the embodiment of Justice, on trial. Divine Justice failed, fell (As in literally; Tyrael fell to Sanctuary from the High Heavens). As for him not being able to become mortal, he did. The story plainly showed that. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it isn't possible. That's where you begin crossing your own opinion with fact.

    - "Mortal Justice was met when we, mortal players, brought ultimate Justice to Terror as the Prime Evil."
    There's a lot more injustice in the mortal world of Sanctuary than Diablo. Why is killing Diablo even in the realm of "mortal justice", instead of "divine justice"?

    Several reasons, actually. Mortals defeated Diablo twice with the intent to stop him, in the two Diablo games, and, as shown in Wrath, Imperius was not interested in Justice; he turned to Wrath out of his hatred for Diablo. The argument can be made that Valor and Terror are opposites (Valor is strength in the face of Terror) hence Imperius' strong response to Diablo. Finally, Diablo defeated Imperius and the Heavenly Host in Act IV; mortals defeated him with the embodiment of Justice at their side. Mortal Justice won over divine Justice.

    - "He stepped into the role of Wisdom because mortal Wisdom prevailed over angelic Wisdom, as seen by Malthael's departure and Imperius' wrath and hatred."
    The only thing that prevailed is the player character. Again, you assume that it is possible, for such a switcheroo to be made. I thought you said that justice prevailed, so is it justice that prevailed or is it wisdom that prevailed. Why wasn't it hope that prevailed? They all needed hope to have a hope in hell of trying to kill Diablo.

    Justice had been served; hence no one taking up the mantle of Justice after Tyrael took up the mantle of Wisdom. Justice had been served because mortal Wisdom prevailed. And I am not assuming anything: it plainly states in the cinematic that such a switcheroo did happen. Did you not see that or are ignoring it because you did not like what you saw?

    As for Hope, Hope did prevail. Hence Auriel still being the Archangel of Hope. But, the difference was that Hope was brought back to the angels. Hence Hope remaining an angel.

    The post is a failed attempt at trying to "understand" a simple story in a Diablo game by using a jumble of nonsense syllogisms, as if trying to show off his skills in formal logic that he learned in Philosophy 101.

    Have you actually taken Philosophy 101? Do you understand what a logical fallacy is? I ask because attacking me because I use formal logic is ad hominem. Using them hurts your overall argument. For example:

    In the context of the game, they are. A phrase like "come here, mortal", means "come here, human", "not come here, dog".

    A phrase like "I am impressed, mortal. You have overcome the greatest challenge this world has ever faced and defeated the last of the Prime Evils", means "I am impressed, human. You have overcome the greatest challenge this world has ever faced and defeated the last of the Prime Evils."

    The words are not identical, they are synonymous, they are used interchangeably, as the meaning in all these contexts are the same.

    Here, you use a sweeping generalization. By claiming that all humans are all mortals, thereore all mortals are humans, you ignore that mortal Beasts exist. Or that Tyrael is a mortal, regardless of your insitance that he cannot be. For example, Tyrael is marked specifically as different from normal humans by his golden eyes.

    So, I must ask you to summerize and point out specifically, in any novel, comic, or game in the Diablo universe, where it specfically says a demon or angel cannot turn mortal. Claiming that angels cannot become humans is irrelevent because Tyrael never refers to himself as such. In fact, by becoming Wisdom, he implies that he is still an angel, albeit a mortal one.

    The burden of proof relies on you since you are so adamant about the subject.
    You continue in your misguided and hopeless attempt in understanding the story by over-analysing fictitious inventions such as "mortal justice" and "divine justice" -- concepts that you made up and do not exist as part of the DIablo lore. I'm not impressed.

    Yes, I can see that Tyrael turned into a mortal that is human. That's a massive plot hole.

    Quote from Zhaph

    Quote from Azjenco

    Firstly, he is a human. The words mortal and human are essentially synonymous.

    I have to disagree with you. "Mortal" simply means "can die;" the fact that all humans are mortal does not make the word "mortal" synonymous with the word "human." Mortal is a quality, a description, not an entity.

    In the context of the game, when an angel says "mortal" they certainly mean to refer to a human, but in the context of our wider world, there are plenty of other mortal creatures.
    Next, you're gonna tell me that "quick" is not a synonym for "fast". "Quick" means high speed and "fast" means to not eat. Therefore, "quick" is not synonymous with "fast".

    Quote from Deventh

    @paralleluniverse: I see now that you just can't be reasoned with. Why do you even post here when you keep repeating yourself even after everyone told you otherwise? Keep your opinion to yourself if you are not willing to accept other. 'Mortal' in the world of Diablo 3 would mean living and thinking and surviving as the humans in there also dying as one. Tyrael didn't want to get on his 'high horse' in high heavens while watching everyone down there suffer so he decided that he wanted to share their pain and to live as one of them - becoming "a mortal".Neither are Demons or Angels immortal in that world, so i don't see any other concept of this.
    You're contribution to this thread is nil. You and the other fanboys are the ones endlessly repeating yourselves.

    How much more times are you going to argue that Tyrael became a mortal. No shit. You've completely missed the point, the question is how is it possible that he suddenly becomes a mortal without contradicting the lore?


    This started off as a good thread but quickly became stupid... The point that Tyrael cant become human or mortal is obvious in the lore...

    Demons and Angels fucked -> Original Nephalem (Bul-Kathos, Rathma, etc...)
    Original nephalem fucked -> modern "humans" (or modern "nephalem")

    There is two steps in between Angels & Demons becoming humans and in lore it is not possible for Angels to have a visage.

    For the argument on Tyrael all you have to do is watch the damn act 1 cinematic again.

    Leah- "You, chose too be one of us..."
    Tyrael- "Thus I fell willingly; because humanity is the only hope for this world."

    ^ There it is in black and white. The Blizzard storytellers are obviously not master plot spinners, or wordsmiths, I am positive they did not take time to make this game like the sixth sense, so Tyrael is not Diablo 3's dead Bruce Willis. He was meant to be a human.

    And yes in the real world we use the term mortal in a more open sense. But in the world of sanctuary, judging from the fact they have never called anything but a human, a mortal, that is what it means and should be taken as.

    On another note, I also noticed the "Legion" notion as well not to sure what I think about that yet. But as Leah was the (Un) love child of Diablo, it is possible. Before you fight "Diablo" he/she says the seven evils are one within me. It could mean one of two things, who knows.
    Exactly. He looks like a human. He smells like a human. He eats like a human. He's a human.

    Also, one of the definitions of mortal is exactly human.

    Quote from Deventh

    Quote from brx

    Quote from Deventh

    Quote from Lokideviny

    Quote from Harmonica39

    Hi, i just finished normal mode the first timeand i wanted to know what you think of the story and especially the ending.

    i really liked the story but the ending was kinda meh in my opinion. i woul have wished for another talk with imperius after i beat diablo or did i miss something and he died? and the last cinematic just couldnt keep up to the others imo.

    i just want to see Leah again....i think i fell in love =(
    You and me both. Let's hope they bring her back alive in future expansion.
    Slow palm moving toward forefront. There it is: facepalm.
    *Sigh* I just love her character and i feel like they didn't bring enough of her.
    She was a great character, bringing her back would just cheapen everything. Like how WoW lore has become a joke now that most dead characters have been brought back.

    Rule 1 of good storytelling: dead is dead.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    Firstly, he is a human. The words mortal and human are essentially synonymous.
    That's the dumbest thing a person has ever said. Laughably stupid. Animals are mortal too, is your dog a human?
    Go look up mortal in a dictionary, and while your at it, look up the word synonymous.
    In the context of the game, they are. A phrase like "come here, mortal", means "come here, human", "not come here, dog".

    A phrase like "I am impressed, mortal. You have overcome the greatest challenge this world has ever faced and defeated the last of the Prime Evils", means "I am impressed, human. You have overcome the greatest challenge this world has ever faced and defeated the last of the Prime Evils."

    The words are not identical, they are synonymous, they are used interchangeably, as the meaning in all these contexts are the same.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    The post makes no sense.

    The following sentences are nonsense:

    - "Tyrael appeared human for one reason: because divine/angelic Justice had failed, so he become the embodiment of mortal Justice."
    Two problems here, firstly what does divine justice failing even mean? Imperious doesn't like Tyrael interfering, but Imperious doesn't decide what is just, Tyrael does. Secondly, saying that this is why he become mortal justice, if such a thing even makes sense, assumes that it's possible. It is not possible. Tyrael cannot become a human, or a mortal being that looks exactly the same as a human.

    - "Mortal Justice was met when we, mortal players, brought ultimate Justice to Terror as the Prime Evil."
    There's a lot more injustice in the mortal world of Sanctuary than Diablo. Why is killing Diablo even in the realm of "mortal justice", instead of "divine justice"?

    - "He stepped into the role of Wisdom because mortal Wisdom prevailed over angelic Wisdom, as seen by Malthael's departure and Imperius' wrath and hatred."
    The only thing that prevailed is the player character. Again, you assume that it is possible, for such a switcheroo to be made. I thought you said that justice prevailed, so is it justice that prevailed or is it wisdom that prevailed. Why wasn't it hope that prevailed? They all needed hope to have a hope in hell of trying to kill Diablo.

    The post is a failed attempt at trying to "understand" a simple story in a Diablo game by using a jumble of nonsense syllogisms, as if trying to show off his skills in formal logic that he learned in Philosophy 101.
    Like I said, he stated it in the way he understood it.

    The mortal justice and angelic justice parts are very much his own concepts.
    However, the fact still stands, Tyrael cast off his angelic form, his essence took on a new form, a mortal form, that of a human since its the most logical form to take (see my post above yours). Through mortal eyes he saw the world in a very new way. Angelic knowledge couldn't stop the war, since even Malthael couldn't have foreseen the events surrounding the Worldstone. It even drove him mad. Thus they couldn't have stopped what was coming, and only the nephalem was able to counter it. Tyrael walked in mortal shows on mortal soil, he saw things unfold in a new way (read his dialogue if you have any doubt). This gave him a new insights and knowledge he didn't know of, even as an angel. Therefore he appointed himself as the representative of knowledge, since Malthael's wisdom couldn't intervene to stop Diablo's plan, but Tyrael saw that the knowledge mortal's used prevailed.

    Like you said, it's a simple concept. So what exactly is the problem here?
    That he can't do any of the above.

    He can't turn into human form because humans are angel/demon hybrids, and he is 100% angel. There is no hybridness in Tyrael.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    He looks like a human because he is a human.

    Let's put the question another way: if Tyrael isn't a human, then why does he look like a human?

    Yes I'm bother by the fact that Tyrael fell in a human form, it is not possible for him to have gotten a human form. The fact that angels and demons can magically have sex and form a human is consistent with in-universe lore. The fact that Tyrael is a human, or at the very least in a body that unmistakably and identically looks human, is a contradiction to in-universe lore.
    Because he took the shape of something recognizable. He took a mortal form that people can react to and comprehend. Would you have felt better if he came to Sanctuary in the form of a German Shepherd? Why is this such an issue? Tyrael took a mortal form, man is the dominant mortal race. Tyrael has had dealings with humans for a long time, you can almost say he's become more human than angel.
    Firstly, he is a human. The words mortal and human are essentially synonymous.

    Now, even if we assume he is not a human as you argue, that he's a mortal, just stuck inside a body that looks 100% human, there is still a plot hole of how it is possible for him to get inside such an identically-human-looking body. Just because Tyrael frequently deals with humans doesn't mean he can suddenly change himself into an identically-human-looking body.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    What the...? Diablo didn't become Legion, his name didn't change to Legion. He became Diablo the Prime Evil. He is no longer A Prime Evil, he is THE Prime Evil. They are embodiments of different concepts, so he acquired all of those concepts, thus making him the prime force of all evil. He is still Diablo, he just referred to himself as legion, as in the culminated host that embodies all, the sum of all parts.
    Whether or not he became a different entity entirely, well, that's up for debate.

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    That post is not well written. It's a load of gibberish that isn't even related to what this thread is about.
    Are you serious? If you scroll up you'll see this thread is about the story and ending. He summed up his thoughts on the story and ending... How is that not related to the thread...?

    And even though his post was verbose, it was far from gibberish. Tyrael himself said he gained a lot of knowledge amongst the humans, therefor he has gained wisdom and became the representative of wisdom. If people still don't understand it then it isn't so much a badly written story, its players acting dim.
    [troll]But he is Legion. He even says it: "I am Legion". How much more obvious does he have to be?[/troll]

    The post makes no sense.

    The following sentences are nonsense:

    - "Tyrael appeared human for one reason: because divine/angelic Justice had failed, so he become the embodiment of mortal Justice."
    Two problems here, firstly what does divine justice failing even mean? Imperious doesn't like Tyrael interfering, but Imperious doesn't decide what is just, Tyrael does. Secondly, saying that this is why he become mortal justice, if such a thing even makes sense, assumes that it's possible. It is not possible. Tyrael cannot become a human, or a mortal being that looks exactly the same as a human.

    - "Mortal Justice was met when we, mortal players, brought ultimate Justice to Terror as the Prime Evil."
    There's a lot more injustice in the mortal world of Sanctuary than Diablo. Why is killing Diablo even in the realm of "mortal justice", instead of "divine justice"?

    - "He stepped into the role of Wisdom because mortal Wisdom prevailed over angelic Wisdom, as seen by Malthael's departure and Imperius' wrath and hatred."
    The only thing that prevailed is the player character. Again, you assume that it is possible, for such a switcheroo to be made. I thought you said that justice prevailed, so is it justice that prevailed or is it wisdom that prevailed. Why wasn't it hope that prevailed? They all needed hope to have a hope in hell of trying to kill Diablo.

    The post is a failed attempt at trying to "understand" a simple story in a Diablo game by using a jumble of nonsense syllogisms, as if trying to show off his skills in formal logic that he learned in Philosophy 101.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from Azjenco

    Quote from paralleluniverse

    But he IS human.

    Open your eyes. Look. That's a human. What else can it possibly be?

    It makes no sense that he changes to wisdom.
    I severely doubt he is human... If it looks like a potato, does it instantly mean it's a potato.
    Tyrael said he made himself mortal, which I think means he just took a limited form that can be destroyed. It makes sense that if one of the angelic beings cast of their angelic purpose to become something else, like Izual became corrupt, but that doesn't make him a demon.

    Let me get this straight, you're bothered by the fact that Tyrael fell to Sanctuary in a human form, but it hasn't bother you before that beings of sound and light fornicated with demons to breed mortals of flesh. A lot isn't explained, and I doubt Blizzard will bring out a book explaining the science of Sanctuary, so it means we'll just have to fill in the blanks.
    He looks like a human because he is a human.

    Let's put the question another way: if Tyrael isn't a human, then why does he look like a human?

    Yes I'm bother by the fact that Tyrael fell in a human form, it is not possible for him to have gotten a human form. The fact that angels and demons can magically have sex and form a human is consistent with in-universe lore. The fact that Tyrael is a human, or at the very least in a body that unmistakably and identically looks human, is a contradiction to in-universe lore.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from engelious

    Hi

    I think alot of ppl are over looking a VERY important fact of the ending.

    Diablo is NOT diablo, how ever strange that sounds.

    He says it him self wen he yell's at you before the battle starts " I AM LEGION."

    He is not a HE, he is not DIABLO or DIABOLO or DIABOOOLOO.....HE ís LEGION!

    an entirely new entity born as a Doughter of Diablo with the powers and souls of all the Prime evils.....
    ----------

    AND to the ppl who keep saying Diablo is tahatmet...not he AINT...

    Thahatmets body is the burning hells, and ALL evil...EVERY deamon, evil son of a **** is born from his drying HUSK....
    no... diablo did not obtain the "souls" of all deamons in all the hell's... he just got the prime evils souls inside leahs body
    and became an entirely new entity -Legion.-

    of all the uncertanties above, one is 100% he is not Tahatmet, cuz then he would have to be the ONLY evil in excistence

    -----
    i c wut u did thur.

    You're splitting hairs, although not as badly as those who say that Tyrael looks human but isn't human, based on nothing but a wishful fantasy that the story holds together without a massive plot hole. It doesn't
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on [SPOILER] What did you think of the story/ending?
    Quote from ZenX

    Quote from Abal_Darkwind

    First of all, let's get this out of the way: Tyrael, Diablo, and all the other Archangels and Great Evils are as much physical beings as they are embodiments of a concept. Tyrael is both an Archangel as well as Justice itself, for example. Most people seem to ignore (Or didn't bother to notice) this fact. So, why does he become human?

    Well, he doesn't. He becomes a mortal. He looks human, sure, but without him claiming he is human, or nephalem, claiming he is human is meaningless conjecture. Tyrael appeared human for one reason: because divine/angelic Justice had failed, so he become the embodiment of mortal Justice. Mortal Justice was met when we, mortal players, brought ultimate Justice to Terror as the Prime Evil. He stepped into the role of Wisdom because mortal Wisdom prevailed over angelic Wisdom, as seen by Malthael's departure and Imperius' wrath and hatred. Tyrael didn't choose to be Wisdom, he literally became it due to the wisdom of mortals saved Heaven.

    To address other so-called plotholes, I'll begin with how destroying the Black Soulstone can destroy all Evil when destroying the regular versions failed to bring an ultimate end to the Prime Evils. The answer is...we don't know that it will. The only person in game that claims destroying the Black Soulstone will destroy Evil forever matter-of-factly is none other than Adria, who betrays you. It very well may not for the simple reason that you can't destroy a concept. You can beat Terror, Hatred, and Destruction back, but they'll resurface eventually. Diablo III is all about the resurgence of Terror: the fear of the Falling Star, the fear of the Emperor's decrees, the fear of the army of Sin, and, ultimately, the fear of the Fall of the High Heavens. Belial and Azmodan played right into Diablo's hand by spreading Terror, showing that Terror, at least in the main game, was the source of ,or prime, evil.

    For some random expansion speculation, with Imperius' turning to Wrath due to...Hatred, Mephisto could get his shot at being the Prime Evil. And with Maltheus rumored to become Death, Baal could return as Death goes hand in hand with Destruction. Ultimately, though when discussing these characters, we must remember that they transcend being a character and must ultimately be treated as a concept.

    This is very well written, and anything I see written after this disregarding will have its author getting nailed with an insulting opening.

    Now regarding how it all ties up to Diablo:
    1 - Being the Lord of Terror, it has no fear of anything itself, making it the most volatile of the seven as well the most dangerous due to no binding factor limiting it in action regarding how far it can go in plotting and committing atrocities.

    2 - Upon evaluation, one needs to be informative of all the books written and as well as the precise lore of the series that had flourished in previous games to be able to really elaborate on things.
    For example: Even though it had not been stated why the hero is rather unique being Nephalem, this was to be expected as the humans attaining their pre-World Stone binding status in power growth and 20 years is pretty much adequate their potential to resurface.

    3 - It was Lut Gholein we had visited in D2 not Caldeum and they are vastly different cities.
    That post is not well written. It's a load of gibberish that isn't even related to what this thread is about.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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