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Last active Wed, Sep, 3 2008 21:34:51
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Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Grimster" »In a way it is taken out of thin air. Of course people who feel for a subject raise their voice more than people who feel ok with the subject.
Read my earlier post, I have already conceded this but not because of your post but another's. He made a valid point.
I am done debating this subject.
My points still stand.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "cmc5788" »I'm suggesting that the only way to form an educated opinion is by being exposed to both elements of differing opinions, and I think anyone who spends any time browsing fansites or forums has had ample opportunity to hear your side of the argument. So yes, peoples' opinions can be influenced by what they are "exposed to most," but if you have any fear that a fansite poster expressing his opinion on the frontpage is unduly influential, I think you underestimate how annoyingly opinionated and vocal those who agree with YOUR side of the argument have been. Basically, this is enough of a public controversy that you're really naive if you honestly believe this guy has any more power to "influence" than the vast number of gaming community sites and shows that have been latching onto the "art style" debate.
I am glad we agree.
I am not debating whether either side of the argument has gotten more publicity than the other.
I am mentioning the bias of what one staff member has done.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "moonshine" »after reading through this entire post there are a few things i think need mentioning.
first of all, this is a diablo fan site, it is not a diablo debate site, or a diablo anti-art site. if a staff member wants to post something in support of diablo 3 on the front page of a site that is dedicated to diablo 3 i see absolutely nothing wrong with that. if he took your advice shmeeleemaster i believe it would completely contradict what this site is about, it is about promoting diablo 3, not about being bias/non bias. in my oponion this entire site should be considered bias towards diablo 3.
as for this next post...
Exactly it is your opinion. It is up to the creators and staff members to decide if they want to be neutral in debates about ongoing Diablo 3 fan debates.
Quote from "moonshine" »one more thing i want to point out to shmeeleemaster... the first few days after the gameplay trailer was released and the petition came up, the forums were flooded with anti art posts and sign the petition posts and this is whats wrong with diablo 3. it seems to me for the most part this outburst of rage has subsided and there are less and less of these posts. but you said, what people are subjected to the most influences them, while i do believe this is true, the two articles pro diablo 3 art style is nowhere near the hundreds of posts that were made about anti diablo 3 art on this site alone. based on this according to your theory, you would think most people would be in favor of your opinion, considering there is much more written on that subject.
What does this have to do with any of my points? None of those articles were posted on the first page by a staff member.
Quote from "moonshine" »there is a difference though between a well written article such as posted here and the many incoherent arguments that generally say the same thing such as in the forums about anti D3 art. one well written article has much more influence on people than hundreds of complaints about one thing.
Again what does this have to do with my claim?
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Gullegris" »Where is it written in stone that this page and the people that are running it have to be neutral in the ongoing debate regarding the artwork in the game? Is there anything wrong with making a stand and trying to get more people to support their beliefs? I'm not stating anything here, it's just a question.
I guess the site doesn't have it written anywhere(that I know of). No there is nothing wrong with getting more support, its the method in getting the support that matters.
If a Mod reads this, Is it the Diablofans goal to be neutral with ongoing debates and issues?
I would like to know. Thank you.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Rumina" »By that logic Blizzard would be abusing their power by making news updates on their site with interviews talking about why they are taking the direction they are, but not make news updates about why their art direction sucks. Being officially linked by blizzard has no bearing on the matter. In fact that's all the more reason WHY he should be posting this.
I personally agree with this article 100% and a majority of people do which is quite evident just by looking through this topic, I'm sorry you don't, but there are plenty of other sites out there that share your opinion.
How does my logic suggest that it would be an abuse of power for blizzard to post interviews?
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Tanton" »If anything I suppose his personal view on the matter is being displayed by the posting of two threads of the same opinion. However, is there something wrong with that? On these forums is that something that a staff member should not do? I think that is where I may not be clearly understanding the problem.
And no problem; do me a favor and hold me accountable for being respectful here on these forums.
This is what I see as the problem.
"The problem is that Sol is using his power (as staff member) to force his predigest (on a site that is officially linked by blizzard) to convey what he believes without suppling the other side of the argument."
I agree, staff members should not be discouraged to post there opinions. That is not my objective. I just want to shed some light on Sols posts, that seem to be biased. Now if Sol started to post threads about the "counter side" on the front page I would have to eat my words. Maybe Sol will start to post like that. (If he does maybe I had an affect on him or not:))
Either way I believe what Sol has done may have unfair effects on an ongoing debate.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "cmc5788" »"using power to influence others?" What's wrong with that? This is a completely subjective contention to begin with; you either like the art and think it should stay or don't. It's a matter of taste. How exactly does one "abuse his power and influence opinions" on the topic of whether one finds a certain artistic style tasteful or not? You're really defensive :/
Do you honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with using power to influence?
I really don't feel like retyping things I have already mentioned in previous posts. But here.
"The problem is that Sol is using his power (as staff member) to force his predigest (on a site that is officially linked by blizzard) to convey what he believes with out supply the other side of the argument."
Are you suggesting that peoples' opinions can not be influenced by what they are exposed to most?
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Tanton" »I am sorry, I am talking about the introduction Sol posted to the article.
He gives the reader the option of disagreeing and simply encourages a good laugh. Now, I cannot claim to say I know for sure he had entirely pure intentions in referring us all to the article, but what I am saying is it seems to be a pretty tame suggestion to simply check out someone's viewpoint.
Thank you, I wasn't quite certain
Ah now I see. Yes, I guess it does give a little bit of warning of what the article is about.
But does a warning negate the fact that he has posted two front page threads that support his opinions without offering or summiting the opposite side?
Like you said, I can not know if his intentions were intentionally bias but they do denote some bias.
Also, I respect your very logical and mature responses :thumbsup:You bring up well thought out propositions.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Tanton" »If anything, I believe that article at least identifies extremes that we would not wish to be realized in Diablo 3 (WoW elements, etc). There were also some funny parts.
I do not understand what the fuss is about. Have I missed how Sol is being overly biased? The introduction of the article in the first post seemed entirely fair and open to differing opinions regarding the direction of the game.
Are you talking about the article/blog posted or are you talking about what Sol posted?
And hows is it fair and open to differing opinions?
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from name="Sol Invictus" »Some of your arguments are so far removed from reason that it makes it impossible for me to dignify them with a response.
I'd like for you to explain how I 'showed bias' by writing the post. The fact that you disagree with the content of the article should not prevent me, or anyone else from posting it. We have ten pages full of readers who enjoyed the article with you and a few others as exceptions. Even amongst the few, you are the only one making an issue about the article going up in the first place.
I suggest you get over yourself.
If you actually read my post you would see:
First I did enjoy parts of the article. I said it was funny in parts.
Now you claim some of my arguements are removed from reason yet supply no evidence.
I think I have explained very clearly how you "showed bias".
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from name="Sol Invictus" »God forbid that someone on staff actually likes the art.
Is that your rebuttal? It doesn't even address the questions or proposition I have brought up.
I think there is quite a big amount of your staff that "actually likes the art" and they express it without showing a huge bias.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "cmc5788" »Chill out, man. Even staff members have a right to express their opinions. If you don't agree, then you don't agree -- unless you're somehow insecure about your position on the subject, there's no reason to be up in arms about someone in a position of authority expressing dissent.
There is a difference from expressing ones opinion and using ones power to influence their opinion on others.
I am perfectly fine that sol agrees with the artistic direction of d3 completely.
I how ever think that if the demo is indeed a foreshadow of whats to come in the complete game, then there should be a few minor changes to the game.
The problem is that Sol is using his power (as staff member) to force his predigest (on a site that is officially linked by blizzard) to convey what he believes with out supply the other side of the argument.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from "Tlalak" »A microscopic majority or minority, it wont give you accurate data,for that you need more diversity from different pools of people
True it does. Valid point.
I will tell you one thing though. If blizzard does react to the petition then that does imply that it might "as I think it is" be accurate.
Jul 5, 2008Posted in: News & AnnouncementsQuote from name="Sol Invictus" »Disagreeing with someone by taking a position based on facts is not 'bias'.
What facts? This is a debate about art which is in no way a science. So the supposed facts are only merely opinions on both side of the debate.
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