Give the new guys a chance, will ya? Every so often, new blood is needed to come and inject some life into the franchise. Once SC2 and D3 comes out- and maybe even a new IP- we'll be fully able to judge the new Blizzard against the legends of old.
It is my opinion that it wasn't any one person that gave Blizzard its signature track record. I used to attribute a lot of that to Bill Roper and co. earlier though, but it's Blizzard's persistence to have the absolute best polish in there that defines their games.
So obviously, they wanna put their own touches on things. If they screw it up, it won't mean the complete end of a franchise...although I would hope that they really don't. I would much prefer Warcraft die, though.
My only worries is that they're coming at this from more of a fan angle, and while they seem to have gotten a few things down, the game seems to have degenerated into a clone of itself. That's the only thing to worry about when dealing with new blood is when they take TOO much from the fan angle or steal from other games where they're not applicable.
How can you say a map editor will not be abused. People find ways around everything. I have no problem with a map editor but if you were limited to what you could do whats the point? They are already going to have random maps, and if you cant line up monsters for 10x exp than your map is going to be no different than the ones blizzard made. The reason people play user created content is to be able to play something fresh. I'm sure your not going to memorize all the different variations of blizzards maps.
Also listen to the two posters above me they agree with the open battle net idea.
You miss the point- twice, if possible.
First off, if people really were bent on running mods online so that they could hack, it woulda been widespread by now. But the fact is, the more settings in the original you tweak and try to get away with, the more likely you are of being caught. Think about how often maphackers are caught in D2, then compare it to the people who frequently dupe or run pickit bots all the time. The more packets you hijack, the worse it becomes. Go ahead. Download a mod and try running it on B.net. I know you won't anyway, but I don't care as long as you get the picture.
Secondly- you're not understanding what the map editor would really be used for. The best example of a mod-based gaming community would have to be Unreal Tournament. I own the latest version, UT3, and right now, their $1,000,000 "Make Something Unreal" Contest will undoubtedly bring in loads of new content, such as new play modes, scripts, models, maps, weapons, you name it.
When you open things up, content will always flourish. And the best part is, there's an audience for everything. There's wiggle room. That's the reason why UT99 has lasted with a core base TO THIS DAY.
If we, for instance, simply wanted to go into CS and move the pentagram to where Diablo spawned, I doubt this idea would have any steam.
Coupled with another post suggesting the community would be somewhat fractured-- so what? That's the point. You see, from the onset, mod makers, custom map editors, whatever you wanna call them, accept that their work will generally not be seen by the same audience. They know that the people who look into their work are very open minded to hack their own install in the first place (as it stands in D2) and some even go underground to play with each other on bnet.d servers. I've been on my share of those.
Hell, just because some people wanna deviate from the mainstream, does that really mean it shouldn't be supported? Where does this idea come from that everyone must be homogeneous to each other? There will ALWAYS be people who will wanna play the original. The overwhelming hatred of this idea here proves it (though also this shows extreme ignorance).
This is kinda :offtopic:, but think of other mediums where fans have gone in and tweaked or added completely new content to original works. Bands that release their songs for remixing, fans that cut up their favorite movies to make them better. Sure, most of you would call that crazy and would be content to stick with the original, and that's fine. The original will always be honored... but the thing that sparks them in the first place is devotion and a yearning to take the game further than what it was meant to be... into whatever the editor has in mind. Some mainstream successes have even gotten their start in this underground. So, tell me again why actually fostering this is so wrong.
I'm not entirely sure the game needs to just be desaturated though. I think it mainly needs more polygons- you know...texture..less cartoon, comic-y feel.
Am I the only one who saw the barbarian up close and the word "Conan" slipped out of my mouth?
Right now, it looks like an isometric view of Age of Conan with some Guild Wars and WC3 thrown in! More texture. Don't be afraid of color, but don't forget that certain areas need a real transition, not just bright and sunny outside and dark in caverns. Too much of a juxtaposition.
And it seems to me that they're swearing off their roots from kinda dark, Celtic-inspired fantasy to more of a tribal thing, which I never really got from Diablo in spite of Kehjistan and Kurast and all that...
Congratulations. Long time lurker here, but you guys prompted me to register in order to stave off your idiocy in this thread alone.
Most of the naysayers so far seem to have this retarded assumption that adding an editor would somehow pervert the game. They also say that it's far too late in development now and everything's been decided.
Wrong. The game is in pre-alpha and at this point, nothing is final, so there is still room for discussion. This means that an editor could still be implemented.
Some other false arguments you guys put up include (after reading all the posts so far):
-Adding an editor to Diablo 3 would make it too much like Warcraft 3.
Actually, this one has already been semi-debunked, but I'd like to go over it in a bit more detail. RTSes are not the sole genre with built-in editors. Many popular FPSes as well as RPGs, as already noted, have used editors for custom user creations successfully, some that have become more popular than the official campaigns.
Adding user-based mods would hurt the game's lifespan.
This one's just plain f***ing stupid. Neverwinter Nights is still going strong today, many people still left in Starcraft play custom, as well as people in WC3. FPSes like UT, including the classic UT99 still have a strong core userbase due to the extensive mod community that has sprang up around it. Also, this would add some more variety to Blizzard events such as WWI and Blizzcon if they openly embraced mods, not just for D3...
The maps are completely randomly generated. What part of that don't you idiot, hippy, mapmakers understand?
Well first of all, if you even knew how the maps in D1 and D2 worked, you'd know that they aren't truly randomly generated. In fact, most locations were static- such as boss areas, and even the other areas all had maybe as many as 6 different presets- like Arcane & Chaos Sanctuary.
In fact, true randomized map generation still depends on certain algorithms and pre-constructed pieces, so likely they just broke all the maps up into tinier pieces and made different versions of them, in the event it was REALLY randomized and not just random presets. Obviously, this is very buggy in itself- doors leading to nowhere, seals outside of town, stairs bridging to themselves...
Adding an editor really doesn't do anything but allow players to customize these pieces or fully flesh out creations of their choice.
The maps will be abused. People will line up monsters for 10K XP runs!
You really think Blizzard is that stupid? Is that how the current system in WC3 works. Is that how it works in NVN? This is plain common sense, even if you didn't bother to ever look up how other games handle custom content. Obviously, the two would be separate and you wouldn't get XP for any rigged games... and for that same reason, your character wouldn't be affected by whatever happens to you in a "So-called" open game. Nuff said.
Developing an editor would draw resources from the game. If fans want the tools, fans will make them, yada yada. I don't want, Diablo commands it and whatever other foolish reasons there are.
First of all, as one poster already said, most games have their own internal editor already in place to create maps from a core toolkit so the programmers needn't stand over level designers 24/7, helping them compile new maps. A "lite" version of this editor would basically just be a tweaked version of that, and wouldn't require much modification at all. If in the event it does take too much time, all that is needed is to update it in future releases.
For the people who said Blizzard has never openly embraced mods, that's true. They haven't. And for people that talk about being fans of their own games, this is pretty ironic. That doesn't mean they could change that. It wouldn't be reversing a stance, just merely allowing the current one to take its full course.
All the issues about fans coming up with their own tools and functions-- they could and still would be able to, even with an official editor, if they chose. And perhaps it will be easy, but if there are many actions and scripted events already in D3, then obviously it'll make mods all the more difficult. Doesn't sound like Blizzard really tolerates mods then after all, now does it?
In fact, Blizzard has flipflopped all over this issue, and have taken a very hostile stance to user-supported mod servers, forcing emulators like bnetd down because they refuse to license or provide some kinda support for mods as it is. To those who whine about security complaints, I'm not saying they should compromise themselves, but some kind of open solution (that can still be used for authentication) that can be loaded onto other servers or even for Open Battle.net would nullify many security issues and many anti-mod sentiments they express currently.
There is no con to you, the "purist" player, if you do not wish to play custom content. By all means. But if Diablo 3 DOES turn out to be sh*t and we're stuck with that content, I hope you're happy.
I guess to some people, choice can be an ugly thing.
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It is my opinion that it wasn't any one person that gave Blizzard its signature track record. I used to attribute a lot of that to Bill Roper and co. earlier though, but it's Blizzard's persistence to have the absolute best polish in there that defines their games.
So obviously, they wanna put their own touches on things. If they screw it up, it won't mean the complete end of a franchise...although I would hope that they really don't. I would much prefer Warcraft die, though.
My only worries is that they're coming at this from more of a fan angle, and while they seem to have gotten a few things down, the game seems to have degenerated into a clone of itself. That's the only thing to worry about when dealing with new blood is when they take TOO much from the fan angle or steal from other games where they're not applicable.
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You miss the point- twice, if possible.
First off, if people really were bent on running mods online so that they could hack, it woulda been widespread by now. But the fact is, the more settings in the original you tweak and try to get away with, the more likely you are of being caught. Think about how often maphackers are caught in D2, then compare it to the people who frequently dupe or run pickit bots all the time. The more packets you hijack, the worse it becomes. Go ahead. Download a mod and try running it on B.net. I know you won't anyway, but I don't care as long as you get the picture.
Secondly- you're not understanding what the map editor would really be used for. The best example of a mod-based gaming community would have to be Unreal Tournament. I own the latest version, UT3, and right now, their $1,000,000 "Make Something Unreal" Contest will undoubtedly bring in loads of new content, such as new play modes, scripts, models, maps, weapons, you name it.
When you open things up, content will always flourish. And the best part is, there's an audience for everything. There's wiggle room. That's the reason why UT99 has lasted with a core base TO THIS DAY.
If we, for instance, simply wanted to go into CS and move the pentagram to where Diablo spawned, I doubt this idea would have any steam.
Coupled with another post suggesting the community would be somewhat fractured-- so what? That's the point. You see, from the onset, mod makers, custom map editors, whatever you wanna call them, accept that their work will generally not be seen by the same audience. They know that the people who look into their work are very open minded to hack their own install in the first place (as it stands in D2) and some even go underground to play with each other on bnet.d servers. I've been on my share of those.
Hell, just because some people wanna deviate from the mainstream, does that really mean it shouldn't be supported? Where does this idea come from that everyone must be homogeneous to each other? There will ALWAYS be people who will wanna play the original. The overwhelming hatred of this idea here proves it (though also this shows extreme ignorance).
This is kinda :offtopic:, but think of other mediums where fans have gone in and tweaked or added completely new content to original works. Bands that release their songs for remixing, fans that cut up their favorite movies to make them better. Sure, most of you would call that crazy and would be content to stick with the original, and that's fine. The original will always be honored... but the thing that sparks them in the first place is devotion and a yearning to take the game further than what it was meant to be... into whatever the editor has in mind. Some mainstream successes have even gotten their start in this underground. So, tell me again why actually fostering this is so wrong.
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Am I the only one who saw the barbarian up close and the word "Conan" slipped out of my mouth?
Right now, it looks like an isometric view of Age of Conan with some Guild Wars and WC3 thrown in! More texture. Don't be afraid of color, but don't forget that certain areas need a real transition, not just bright and sunny outside and dark in caverns. Too much of a juxtaposition.
And it seems to me that they're swearing off their roots from kinda dark, Celtic-inspired fantasy to more of a tribal thing, which I never really got from Diablo in spite of Kehjistan and Kurast and all that...
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Most of the naysayers so far seem to have this retarded assumption that adding an editor would somehow pervert the game. They also say that it's far too late in development now and everything's been decided.
Wrong. The game is in pre-alpha and at this point, nothing is final, so there is still room for discussion. This means that an editor could still be implemented.
Some other false arguments you guys put up include (after reading all the posts so far):
-Adding an editor to Diablo 3 would make it too much like Warcraft 3.
Actually, this one has already been semi-debunked, but I'd like to go over it in a bit more detail. RTSes are not the sole genre with built-in editors. Many popular FPSes as well as RPGs, as already noted, have used editors for custom user creations successfully, some that have become more popular than the official campaigns.
Adding user-based mods would hurt the game's lifespan.
This one's just plain f***ing stupid. Neverwinter Nights is still going strong today, many people still left in Starcraft play custom, as well as people in WC3. FPSes like UT, including the classic UT99 still have a strong core userbase due to the extensive mod community that has sprang up around it. Also, this would add some more variety to Blizzard events such as WWI and Blizzcon if they openly embraced mods, not just for D3...
The maps are completely randomly generated. What part of that don't you idiot, hippy, mapmakers understand?
Well first of all, if you even knew how the maps in D1 and D2 worked, you'd know that they aren't truly randomly generated. In fact, most locations were static- such as boss areas, and even the other areas all had maybe as many as 6 different presets- like Arcane & Chaos Sanctuary.
In fact, true randomized map generation still depends on certain algorithms and pre-constructed pieces, so likely they just broke all the maps up into tinier pieces and made different versions of them, in the event it was REALLY randomized and not just random presets. Obviously, this is very buggy in itself- doors leading to nowhere, seals outside of town, stairs bridging to themselves...
Adding an editor really doesn't do anything but allow players to customize these pieces or fully flesh out creations of their choice.
The maps will be abused. People will line up monsters for 10K XP runs!
You really think Blizzard is that stupid? Is that how the current system in WC3 works. Is that how it works in NVN? This is plain common sense, even if you didn't bother to ever look up how other games handle custom content. Obviously, the two would be separate and you wouldn't get XP for any rigged games... and for that same reason, your character wouldn't be affected by whatever happens to you in a "So-called" open game. Nuff said.
Developing an editor would draw resources from the game. If fans want the tools, fans will make them, yada yada. I don't want, Diablo commands it and whatever other foolish reasons there are.
First of all, as one poster already said, most games have their own internal editor already in place to create maps from a core toolkit so the programmers needn't stand over level designers 24/7, helping them compile new maps. A "lite" version of this editor would basically just be a tweaked version of that, and wouldn't require much modification at all. If in the event it does take too much time, all that is needed is to update it in future releases.
For the people who said Blizzard has never openly embraced mods, that's true. They haven't. And for people that talk about being fans of their own games, this is pretty ironic. That doesn't mean they could change that. It wouldn't be reversing a stance, just merely allowing the current one to take its full course.
All the issues about fans coming up with their own tools and functions-- they could and still would be able to, even with an official editor, if they chose. And perhaps it will be easy, but if there are many actions and scripted events already in D3, then obviously it'll make mods all the more difficult. Doesn't sound like Blizzard really tolerates mods then after all, now does it?
In fact, Blizzard has flipflopped all over this issue, and have taken a very hostile stance to user-supported mod servers, forcing emulators like bnetd down because they refuse to license or provide some kinda support for mods as it is. To those who whine about security complaints, I'm not saying they should compromise themselves, but some kind of open solution (that can still be used for authentication) that can be loaded onto other servers or even for Open Battle.net would nullify many security issues and many anti-mod sentiments they express currently.
There is no con to you, the "purist" player, if you do not wish to play custom content. By all means. But if Diablo 3 DOES turn out to be sh*t and we're stuck with that content, I hope you're happy.
I guess to some people, choice can be an ugly thing.