I don't understand this whole conversation. Nat's is strafe build. It's not glass cannon. In fact, it about as melee a build as a range class can expect. How is swirling around in the middle of monsters different from whirlwinding? This is all I see from Barbs. So it's fine for Barbs, but when another class does it, it's glass cannon? The fact of the matter is that Nat's does little damage. Your are arguing the wrong point. It's not the frigging set bonuses, it's the stupid belt that does all the damage. You get a free 4000% weapon damage monster to stack on top of the set bonuses with Crashing Rain. So if there is a point to be made, it's that DH kept their belt, but, Barbs lost their bracers. Here is where the problem lies. But, nobody tested the belt for this build in PTR. Everybody tested Unhallowed Essence in greater rifts. They tested the double damage quiver or how the lightning build would work with UE and the Bastions of Will ring set. So the belt slipped by. The only thing that was tested was speed clears. They were doing really fast T6 runs with Nat's. But then again, so were Monks with dashing strike.
The Barb bracers were all that was tested in PTR. People were whirlwinding with every set. It didn't matter which set you used, the common item was the bracers. So what else are the Devs supposed to think other than they are in fact over-powered? The new WW set wasn't even the best WW build. Barbs put the spotlight on it and it got pulled, meanwhile the belt went unnoticed until 2.2 went live. If you want to blame anybody, the stupid way Blizzard implemented the PTR is to blame. Everybody wanted it to be over, so they could get their items on the live server. So the season was shortened and PTR was shut down over the weekend, then Tuesday the bracers were pulled from the drop pool.
So what is the solution for barbs? Nerf the DH belt? That makes barbs better, how?
i dont mean that '' blizz should nerf DH''
what i saw after ptr ends blizz nerfed IK set and removed morticks because 2xbarb and sup wd+cru setup clerared gr70 4man.
today u can see 4man 71 cleared with 2x DH as dps and solo DH cleared 62. and u know at the end of season this numbers will go higher.
only 1 barb cleared 60 so far at season. bu many DHs and Wizards cleared 60-61 and 1dh cleared 62.
i dont see any balance in game thats what im saying.other classes like monk wd and cru better then last season for sure. but DH and Wizards gone far beyond that point.
as u say that belt dealing most of Nat sets dmg then imagine they removed thet belt after ptr . would u like it ?
Are you s....d or what? Okay Motrics bracer would be sweet, sure. Giving natalya 800% damage boost would be sweet too. With motrics, barbs would clear 65+ on solo.
Even with a just striding giant setup, barbs would easily dominate the solo leaderboards.
If you had even a hint of knowledge about this game you would know why ther ar eno barbs in group.... Its because you do not tank in groups. Not really. You need dps and you need crowd control. Barb doesnt have enough hard cc in its kit, doesnt matter what set you give it, with what bonuses.
For the dps, well yeah, dh and wiz gonna b dealing more damage. Mostly. Barb is a fckin warrior as you said, it does deal damage but it tanks damage too.
What you want is for barb to hav the highest dps by far, and losing nothing for it...
You said you never cared what was op, because almost always barbs wer the strongest. Now the game gtting balanced suddenly, and dhs beat barbs at the very top of th leaersboards, which you will never really reach, by like 2 levels and suddenly its crytime.
For gos sake on a well geared dh you can kinda esily go 50+, but you gonna be oneshottd anyway you have o evade damage.... For barb... just close your eyes, and do 52-55 with one hand...
Comparing ik with nats is stupid anyway. Completely different mechanics IK buffs all your abilities, permanently, giving you perma ancients and perma berserker. Nats giving you a lot of damage, but you have to gear for it a lot, i mean cooldown reduction. And you play with a 3 million toughness char, sure it is fun.
p.s.: I could see it in your post, that you think 30% damage reduction means something... First LEARN THE FCKIN OTHER CLASSES AND GET TO KNOW THEM PLS. You have 0 knowledge on the other classes, probabaly close to nil on barb, and you see something that you randomly think is superop and make a crypost about it for no reason.
dude point is that '' new natalya set is toooo OP '' cleared 62 by now and u say that game balanced ???
a glasscannon DH can clear 62 but a crazy tough setup barb can clear 60 . i cant say thats balanced.
i played over 60hrs DH at season and easily play 4man 55+.DH has esc mechanic and best DPS. also 60+ hrs barb and i can play 4man around 50 but without DPS. because i must have x999 times more toughness than DHs. my teammates carries me im doing nothing at gr50 with barb.
also cleared solo gr50 with barb.
blizz just nerfing or changing mechanics of barb since pre expansion pack. first eq set then pull mechanic then pylons then morticks then ik set.
im saying that DHs and also Wizards are TOOOO WAY OP now.
i understand u re DH player and im happy for u. enjoy the moment.
what you are saying is "why can DH but barb not" - truth would be "why DH can an NO other class".
Barbs are not weak, S1 i think barbs rocked the Leaderboards, S2 (not sure?) also, if not a lot of topspots, S3 DH taking over, so whats your real point?
You can just compare your Ranking within your class, you cant compare DH with Monk, and Monk with WD, and Barb with DH. why? because they are complete different classes. it would be the same if you would blame Ferrari or Mercedes Benz that they rule the Formula 1 and the other teams have no chance for the top rankings.
and for the items: yeah, 500% IK and Morticks would be indeed to OP. i dont know if you played PTR that time, it was to crazy.
and again, there will always be one class to rule them all, one class to find them, one build to take them all, and in the leaderboards bind them.
dude i can understand that u didnt pkay s1 and s2.
at s1 barb was not the best in ladder '' conduit was the best at ladder'' barb just had best mechanic to hunt conduit. barb cannot kill RG after GR43.
at s2 they changed barbs pull mechanic and nerfed conduit.
but as u can see after 20 days of S3 natalya DH cleared GR61 .thats too much
like u say all classes need to be balanced. seems like all classes can do 55+ now. but DH and Wiz ar way over that.
that bracers were the only hope to play 4ppls group Grifts for barbs.
i dont see the problem, everything i can indeed see is "mimimi the class i play is not the most overpowered, damn blizz, that is so unfair and i want to be the guy who clears 60+ rifts"
on the other hand, comparing a ranged class with a melee class is not working. compare barb with monk or maybe crusader but not with DH. there is no "real" balancing in D3, never been and never will, there is always one class, one build that stands out more. if you want to be so damn owpeee than reroll a DH or start to play Crusader for high grift groups. Even zdps monks are nothing compared to zdps "stunlock riftbosses" crusader.
u dont get the point. discussion is that blizz nerfed barbs IK set from %500 to %100 and removed morticks bracers. but same Blizzard team think DHs new Natalya with %400 dmg buff is just fine. but as u can see natalya DH can clear 60+ solo.
You must be kidding. But then again, your last statement is beyond hilarious, so maybe that's what you actually think and are not joking. Your comparison to the bracers vs. the updated Nat set has absolutely nothing in common. As if the updated IK set, Raekor set, and Wastes set offer nothing to boost your char, right? DH's don't need armor sets or set bonuses! Don't give them survival bonuses, because it's too much fun dying in 1-hit to a jailer effect!
If Blizzard made bracers for other classes that gave every rune of their most powerful cooldown, and not for Barbs, maybe you'd understand. If you have played Barb for as long as you have claimed, I figured you'd understand the overpowered synergy of the bracers more than it just being "a little op."
Fact of the matter is that people want the easiest mode and least path of resistance. Those bracers gave you that...on the PTR. It's getting really annoying that the bnet whining is trickling here more and more.
Ok, IK4 ~= x2 DPS via perma-WOTB. IK6 = x2 dps. So, it is x4 in total, which is equal to +300%. So, barbarians have even more powerful set, right?
The funniest thing is that Natalya x4 bonus is quite bad by itself, and is used mostly to buff the belt. If you want to analyze the sets of other classes, try discovering mechanics, synergies and so on.
did u see any barb on high gr group in these days mate ?
i saw Dh mechanic well. my well geared WW +MS spec barb cant catch a natayla DH. and i cant play 3min 40-45grs like DH can play.
i cant even imagine to play 65+ group with barb. without that bracers ofcourse
You must be kidding. But then again, your last statement is beyond hilarious, so maybe that's what you actually think and are not joking. Your comparison to the bracers vs. the updated Nat set has absolutely nothing in common. As if the updated IK set, Raekor set, and Wastes set offer nothing to boost your char, right? DH's don't need armor sets or set bonuses! Don't give them survival bonuses, because it's too much fun dying in 1-hit to a jailer effect!
If Blizzard made bracers for other classes that gave every rune of their most powerful cooldown, and not for Barbs, maybe you'd understand. If you have played Barb for as long as you have claimed, I figured you'd understand the overpowered synergy of the bracers more than it just being "a little op."
Fact of the matter is that people want the easiest mode and least path of resistance. Those bracers gave you that...on the PTR. It's getting really annoying that the bnet whining is trickling here more and more.
dude u didnt see what im trying to say there.
blizz nerfed barbs IK set from %500 to %100 and removed that bracers. but i saw that DHs have a set that gives %400 dmg bonus. DH class is already got the best sheet dps. and a set gives %400 more dmg ??? isnt that OP?
u say 1 shot jailer effect ????? r u kidding ???? dude barbs got 1 shot killed same jailer effect with amazing toughness. DHs playing with pure DPS builds not toughness and u say '' i got 1 shot killed'' isnt that normal ??? im farming even t6 about 18-20m toughness. did u see a 20m tough DH ?
i m always saying dont nerf , buff other classes to blizzard. i can understand dh players happy with an amazing set. but that the same patch makes u happy makes barbs players angry.
i am playing barb (warrior) since d1. i never played other classes much. and never bothered about other classes if they r too op or not. i never cared. i never checked other class changes.until i saw that revised dh natalya set. what the hell is that set ??? 2 piece reduces cooldown of rain of vengeance by 2 sec both resource spending and generating attacks. 4 piece %100 dmg for Rain of vengeance and 6 piece %400dmg and %30 dmg reduce !!! u re kidding right ???
after that bracers removed from 2.2 i just had a little disappointment but i was really happy because i can use WW now. but now im really got mad about that bracers. for me that change was unethical. that bracer was the only hope for high gr group play for barb.
as u can see barb cant play high level gr groups as always. but now wiz can play and dh can play better then before. as long as i tested WD performing better for sure. and my monk friend says monks r better now.
now i can understand why that bracer is important for barbs. i hope blizz reconsider applying that bracer after saw that leaderboards.
i think that bracers op but seems like not too op compared to other classes changes...
my i7 4700hq and gt750m vga laptop with 12gb ram still drops under 30fps ... even in solo barb play. some other games have other issues because of win 8.1 but generally all other games works fine with high settings.
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so far that barbs 4man record gr70 at ptr broken at season and barb is not at top of ladder.
i think that bracer was not too op then.
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i dont mean that '' blizz should nerf DH''
what i saw after ptr ends blizz nerfed IK set and removed morticks because 2xbarb and sup wd+cru setup clerared gr70 4man.
today u can see 4man 71 cleared with 2x DH as dps and solo DH cleared 62. and u know at the end of season this numbers will go higher.
only 1 barb cleared 60 so far at season. bu many DHs and Wizards cleared 60-61 and 1dh cleared 62.
i dont see any balance in game thats what im saying.other classes like monk wd and cru better then last season for sure. but DH and Wizards gone far beyond that point.
as u say that belt dealing most of Nat sets dmg then imagine they removed thet belt after ptr . would u like it ?
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dude point is that '' new natalya set is toooo OP '' cleared 62 by now and u say that game balanced ???
a glasscannon DH can clear 62 but a crazy tough setup barb can clear 60 . i cant say thats balanced.
i played over 60hrs DH at season and easily play 4man 55+.DH has esc mechanic and best DPS. also 60+ hrs barb and i can play 4man around 50 but without DPS. because i must have x999 times more toughness than DHs. my teammates carries me im doing nothing at gr50 with barb.
also cleared solo gr50 with barb.
blizz just nerfing or changing mechanics of barb since pre expansion pack. first eq set then pull mechanic then pylons then morticks then ik set.
im saying that DHs and also Wizards are TOOOO WAY OP now.
i understand u re DH player and im happy for u. enjoy the moment.
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u mean IK barb 4 ppl group 70 clear ?
if thats it yep that was toooo OP.
but nerfing from %500 to %100 and removing morticks bracers are TOOOOOOOOOOOO OPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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dude i can understand that u didnt pkay s1 and s2.
at s1 barb was not the best in ladder '' conduit was the best at ladder'' barb just had best mechanic to hunt conduit. barb cannot kill RG after GR43.
at s2 they changed barbs pull mechanic and nerfed conduit.
but as u can see after 20 days of S3 natalya DH cleared GR61 .thats too much
like u say all classes need to be balanced. seems like all classes can do 55+ now. but DH and Wiz ar way over that.
that bracers were the only hope to play 4ppls group Grifts for barbs.
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u dont get the point. discussion is that blizz nerfed barbs IK set from %500 to %100 and removed morticks bracers. but same Blizzard team think DHs new Natalya with %400 dmg buff is just fine. but as u can see natalya DH can clear 60+ solo.
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do u still agree what u said here ?
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after 20 days can u see what im trying to say mate ?
im kidding right ?? ur natalya DH can clear 59. and u say i dont know sets mechanic ?
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did u see any barb on high gr group in these days mate ?
i saw Dh mechanic well. my well geared WW +MS spec barb cant catch a natayla DH. and i cant play 3min 40-45grs like DH can play.
i cant even imagine to play 65+ group with barb. without that bracers ofcourse
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dude u didnt see what im trying to say there.
blizz nerfed barbs IK set from %500 to %100 and removed that bracers. but i saw that DHs have a set that gives %400 dmg bonus. DH class is already got the best sheet dps. and a set gives %400 more dmg ??? isnt that OP?
u say 1 shot jailer effect ????? r u kidding ???? dude barbs got 1 shot killed same jailer effect with amazing toughness. DHs playing with pure DPS builds not toughness and u say '' i got 1 shot killed'' isnt that normal ??? im farming even t6 about 18-20m toughness. did u see a 20m tough DH ?
i m always saying dont nerf , buff other classes to blizzard. i can understand dh players happy with an amazing set. but that the same patch makes u happy makes barbs players angry.
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i am playing barb (warrior) since d1. i never played other classes much. and never bothered about other classes if they r too op or not. i never cared. i never checked other class changes.until i saw that revised dh natalya set. what the hell is that set ??? 2 piece reduces cooldown of rain of vengeance by 2 sec both resource spending and generating attacks. 4 piece %100 dmg for Rain of vengeance and 6 piece %400dmg and %30 dmg reduce !!! u re kidding right ???
after that bracers removed from 2.2 i just had a little disappointment but i was really happy because i can use WW now. but now im really got mad about that bracers. for me that change was unethical. that bracer was the only hope for high gr group play for barb.
as u can see barb cant play high level gr groups as always. but now wiz can play and dh can play better then before. as long as i tested WD performing better for sure. and my monk friend says monks r better now.
now i can understand why that bracer is important for barbs. i hope blizz reconsider applying that bracer after saw that leaderboards.
i think that bracers op but seems like not too op compared to other classes changes...
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did gr50 on ptr but now im too far from that..
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my i7 4700hq and gt750m vga laptop with 12gb ram still drops under 30fps ... even in solo barb play. some other games have other issues because of win 8.1 but generally all other games works fine with high settings.
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just found at whimsyshire with my barb