Primals aren't very creative, but it's better than nothing. I honestly don't undersand all the whining on this.
We knew from blizzcon, that we wont get any new stuff mechanics wise, they just added it because it was easy to do and it kidna extends the time some of us will play seasons. I like this much more than paragon grind and I'm glad that we get atleast this.
For those worried about disparity between casual/hardcore: why do you care ? It's not like hardcore player will ruin your game somehow. For pushing GR-s everyone is on the same boat, it's not like suddenly those "hardcore" players will be more hardcore and start playing 30h/day. Sure if you push for top 10, you will need to play alot ... oh wait you need to do this now too due to paragons.
With ancients system and crafting/rerolling through cube, gearing is super easy, i think around paragon 1k i would have full ancient gear with very decent stats, getting an upgrade after that is almost impossible. Primals will be some kind of a carrot on a stick that will make me wanting to play more at that point.
There are 2 problems with primals that might arise tho:
1. We will need alot of rerols to optimize gear - that means lots of forgotten souls - would be nice to have like more souls from salvaging ancients/primal or from doing some events in game
2. Augments - some people will wait till they get primal item to augment it, and that might cause alot of frustration. I would like to see the way to transfer augments from item to item, or even from item to gem, so we could put augments on ancients and the transfer them to primals when we got those
Adding charms to bags is just terrible idea. For t10 farming you wouldn't use it anyway, and for grs you dont get any loot till the boss. Everyone would just port to town to put charms in vault and come back for loot. That would just be annoying like hell.
For runes - if i understand correctly, putting special combination of runes in white item made that item super powerfull in d2. Why do u need runes in d3 then ? They can just add more legendary powers to the game instead and they are doing that for every season actually.
I would love to see solutions that can extend the fun of the game (increase the character progression time), and add more choices, but i dont think runes fulfill this role in any way.
I personally hope thay are working on expansion pack. Job postings says nothing, transfering people from team to team is an internal blizzard thing, and we shouldn't make any conclusions without knowing bigger picture of that. Expansion is the most logical thing company like blizzard would do because:
- shorter development time than a brand new game (means they can get profits much faster)
- young age of the game
- good foundation and huge potential of the game (theres tons of stuff they can actually add to the game make it superior to any arpg)
- development philosophy (game + expansion 1 + expansion 2 ... its like that in every bizzard game now)
Blizzard was adding features in patches, thats true and that is great. Does that mean they are scrapped expansion ? In my opinion no. Without those things game would be dead very fast. Imagine if they wouldnt introduce greater rifts and seasons. Noone would play d3 anymore. Also remember that vanilla d3 also had updates like paragon system, monster power, uber bosses, brawling.
About "need of an expansion" - expansion isn't only the new zone/class and increased level cap. RoS gave us the whole end game called adventure mode: bounties and rits and loot 2.0. This is the direction that expansion might go safely imho. Doing rifts all day is boring like hell so adding more endgame events sounds pretty logical to me. Reworking paragon system and gear farming to make it last longer isn't something that can be done in patches and prolly need a soft reset (new level cap, ur current gear is crap) and thats why expansion is needed.
I agree that group play is much easier than solo. Currently doing gr 90 as support class requires much less dedication than doing 80 solo and thats imho bad. I still think that group play should outperform solo but not in the way it does now.
I don't agree with all the aggression in the first post tho
There was no torment difficulty in vanilla. There was a monster power (1 to 10).
You said you stopped playing 2 years ago, so how can you complain about the game that you didnt really play ?
People like seasons because they like fresh start, not because of some items (fyi seasonal players don't get any new items now). Seasons are old idea from diablo 2.
Current version of D3 has ofcourse some flaws and issues but still its a years better game than vanilla D3.
About mmo's and market: biggest mmo called World of Warcraft doesn't allow people to sell most of gear. Stuff you obtain from dungeons/raid is soulbound to you mostly, so no you can't buy all the gear from ah. Sure you can trade mats, and some boe gear, but thats all.
I think you are focusing on wrong gear if u aren't able to do atleast T1. I was able to play t1 just after few yellow crafts after i hit 70. I'm guessing u might be using gear with wrong affixes. You should focus mainly on your damage, u will survive just fine on t1 if u kill stuff fast enough.
There are few simple rules for gearing:
- rings, amulets, gloves are you strongest offensive slots. Those can roll with crit chance, attack speed and crit damage increase, so you should check what you got and focus on those affixes(prolly crit chance and crit damage for most classes) for those slots.
- weapon - should have socket, and you should put green gem in it (gives more crit damage)
- head and bracers can also roll with crit chance so its nice to have this affix there
- for the rest of the gear you should focus on defensive affixes (for start)
If you follow this rules you should be able to play t1 without problems. Playing difficulties under t1 is not recommended cos you wont't find any set items there (they drop only on torment).
LoN bombardment isn't good for starting, its very hard to gear. Just go for standard invokers thorn's build. It's not as good/fast as LoN bombardment but its still decent and it is very tanky and easy to play. You can find it at the top of dfans, it's the one with highest votes. You don't need any ancients for it to work, you don't need any specific weapon. For lower torment's you just need 2 invoker pieces. For farming t10 you will prolly need 6 set pieces and some additional items.
2) There was a long term goal that players could work toward while farming.
This is exacly what D3 needs, currently everyone plays for few weeks since start of season/patch and after that theres nothin'g to do if u aren't super hardcore and not going for top 10 gr ladder.
We need more interesting ways to improve that aren't 100% luck based (no, flat main stat increase isn't interesting) and need more variety in games, mby some weekly challenges mby some gr alternatives.
Lot's of nerfs are coming from LoN abuse. Personally i think LoN might give more bad than good to the game. They just nerfed bombardment thorns rune to the ground because of LoN. This skill was already not so great for thorns sader, now it's completly useless. Dunno how good is thorn's sader atm, but changes looks really scary.
the only good thing about that chest is that you gain damage and defense in same time, if you go pure damage you will always choose strength.
Strength multiplier scales from all your thorns damage, and thorns you gain from heart of iron are only small part of your overall thorns. Main sources of thorns are your thorns gems, thats why strength will be always better. Heart of iron is worth around 50k thorns damage while your weapon gem is worth 65k and your legendary gem will give you over 100k when leveled. It is very possible that in the end of they day we wont even use heart of iron for cookie cutter build.
Paragons aren't the problem. Lack of choices or other infinite paths is. It's not about top player vs average player paragons disproportion.
You can do many things to extend that time when u can do more stuff that just paragon farming like:
- infinite gem levels just limited by amount of gems you have (that would also fix problem with having lots of useless gems), with some random factor (like chance to add some small additional stat to gem when created)
- more variations on ancient system (like chance to roll a socket on ancient item), similar to wow
- tweaks to paragon system, removal/increase of limits for all tabs (with diminishing returns for points distribution)
Yes paragon is an infinite progression, but you have no choices where to put those points, its just ur main stat, and that is very boring way to progress imho. Same with new upgrades - they will be fun for a short period of time till you max it out and thats all.
I always though that this game is about hunting items, not gaining paragons. Paragons as a side progression are nice, but its problematic when it becomes the only way to go. 2 years ago hitting that 800 paragons and gearing fully wasnt that easy for casual player like me, now getting full ancient set and hitting 800 paragons is in range for anyone, and only thing that left is grinding more main stat from paragons.
Don't get me wrong, im thankfull that they are doing those changes to the game, im just voicing my opinion about lacking some choices at late game porgression.
Lots of words and walls of text, but in practice this game got one big problem and its not related to game mechanics, its more about how this game is seen by developers.
Diablo 3 has to offer alots of fun but for very short period of time. Depends of player type it can be week or two, or even a month. We as a players who love this game want that fun to exist for much more than that, but does developers want that too ?
I think developers are ok with how the game works, and that it gives fun for short period of time and that in my opinion is MAIN PROBLEM OF THIS GAME.
0
Last tracked post is from 1 Feb, 2017, there was atleast 1 blue response after that (it is even mentioned on front page).
1
Well if i had to choose from:
- primals and no other changes
- no changes at all
I will choose primals.
0
Primals aren't very creative, but it's better than nothing. I honestly don't undersand all the whining on this.
We knew from blizzcon, that we wont get any new stuff mechanics wise, they just added it because it was easy to do and it kidna extends the time some of us will play seasons. I like this much more than paragon grind and I'm glad that we get atleast this.
For those worried about disparity between casual/hardcore: why do you care ? It's not like hardcore player will ruin your game somehow. For pushing GR-s everyone is on the same boat, it's not like suddenly those "hardcore" players will be more hardcore and start playing 30h/day. Sure if you push for top 10, you will need to play alot ... oh wait you need to do this now too due to paragons.
With ancients system and crafting/rerolling through cube, gearing is super easy, i think around paragon 1k i would have full ancient gear with very decent stats, getting an upgrade after that is almost impossible. Primals will be some kind of a carrot on a stick that will make me wanting to play more at that point.
There are 2 problems with primals that might arise tho:
1. We will need alot of rerols to optimize gear - that means lots of forgotten souls - would be nice to have like more souls from salvaging ancients/primal or from doing some events in game
2. Augments - some people will wait till they get primal item to augment it, and that might cause alot of frustration. I would like to see the way to transfer augments from item to item, or even from item to gem, so we could put augments on ancients and the transfer them to primals when we got those
0
Adding charms to bags is just terrible idea. For t10 farming you wouldn't use it anyway, and for grs you dont get any loot till the boss. Everyone would just port to town to put charms in vault and come back for loot. That would just be annoying like hell.
For runes - if i understand correctly, putting special combination of runes in white item made that item super powerfull in d2. Why do u need runes in d3 then ? They can just add more legendary powers to the game instead and they are doing that for every season actually.
I would love to see solutions that can extend the fun of the game (increase the character progression time), and add more choices, but i dont think runes fulfill this role in any way.
0
I personally hope thay are working on expansion pack. Job postings says nothing, transfering people from team to team is an internal blizzard thing, and we shouldn't make any conclusions without knowing bigger picture of that. Expansion is the most logical thing company like blizzard would do because:
- shorter development time than a brand new game (means they can get profits much faster)
- young age of the game
- good foundation and huge potential of the game (theres tons of stuff they can actually add to the game make it superior to any arpg)
- development philosophy (game + expansion 1 + expansion 2 ... its like that in every bizzard game now)
Blizzard was adding features in patches, thats true and that is great. Does that mean they are scrapped expansion ? In my opinion no. Without those things game would be dead very fast. Imagine if they wouldnt introduce greater rifts and seasons. Noone would play d3 anymore. Also remember that vanilla d3 also had updates like paragon system, monster power, uber bosses, brawling.
About "need of an expansion" - expansion isn't only the new zone/class and increased level cap. RoS gave us the whole end game called adventure mode: bounties and rits and loot 2.0. This is the direction that expansion might go safely imho. Doing rifts all day is boring like hell so adding more endgame events sounds pretty logical to me. Reworking paragon system and gear farming to make it last longer isn't something that can be done in patches and prolly need a soft reset (new level cap, ur current gear is crap) and thats why expansion is needed.
0
I agree that group play is much easier than solo. Currently doing gr 90 as support class requires much less dedication than doing 80 solo and thats imho bad. I still think that group play should outperform solo but not in the way it does now.
I don't agree with all the aggression in the first post tho
4
D3 isn't mmo, its a cooperative game.
There was no torment difficulty in vanilla. There was a monster power (1 to 10).
You said you stopped playing 2 years ago, so how can you complain about the game that you didnt really play ?
People like seasons because they like fresh start, not because of some items (fyi seasonal players don't get any new items now). Seasons are old idea from diablo 2.
Current version of D3 has ofcourse some flaws and issues but still its a years better game than vanilla D3.
About mmo's and market: biggest mmo called World of Warcraft doesn't allow people to sell most of gear. Stuff you obtain from dungeons/raid is soulbound to you mostly, so no you can't buy all the gear from ah. Sure you can trade mats, and some boe gear, but thats all.
0
I think you are focusing on wrong gear if u aren't able to do atleast T1. I was able to play t1 just after few yellow crafts after i hit 70. I'm guessing u might be using gear with wrong affixes. You should focus mainly on your damage, u will survive just fine on t1 if u kill stuff fast enough.
There are few simple rules for gearing:
- rings, amulets, gloves are you strongest offensive slots. Those can roll with crit chance, attack speed and crit damage increase, so you should check what you got and focus on those affixes(prolly crit chance and crit damage for most classes) for those slots.
- weapon - should have socket, and you should put green gem in it (gives more crit damage)
- head and bracers can also roll with crit chance so its nice to have this affix there
- for the rest of the gear you should focus on defensive affixes (for start)
If you follow this rules you should be able to play t1 without problems. Playing difficulties under t1 is not recommended cos you wont't find any set items there (they drop only on torment).
0
Hi
LoN bombardment isn't good for starting, its very hard to gear. Just go for standard invokers thorn's build. It's not as good/fast as LoN bombardment but its still decent and it is very tanky and easy to play. You can find it at the top of dfans, it's the one with highest votes. You don't need any ancients for it to work, you don't need any specific weapon. For lower torment's you just need 2 invoker pieces. For farming t10 you will prolly need 6 set pieces and some additional items.
0
Add more gameplay options/events, and more challenge type games like greater rifts.
Add more options for character progression (that last longer than 2-3 weeks)
0
This is exacly what D3 needs, currently everyone plays for few weeks since start of season/patch and after that theres nothin'g to do if u aren't super hardcore and not going for top 10 gr ladder.
We need more interesting ways to improve that aren't 100% luck based (no, flat main stat increase isn't interesting) and need more variety in games, mby some weekly challenges mby some gr alternatives.
0
Lot's of nerfs are coming from LoN abuse. Personally i think LoN might give more bad than good to the game. They just nerfed bombardment thorns rune to the ground because of LoN. This skill was already not so great for thorns sader, now it's completly useless. Dunno how good is thorn's sader atm, but changes looks really scary.
0
Just a quick note about heart of iron:
the only good thing about that chest is that you gain damage and defense in same time, if you go pure damage you will always choose strength.
Strength multiplier scales from all your thorns damage, and thorns you gain from heart of iron are only small part of your overall thorns. Main sources of thorns are your thorns gems, thats why strength will be always better. Heart of iron is worth around 50k thorns damage while your weapon gem is worth 65k and your legendary gem will give you over 100k when leveled. It is very possible that in the end of they day we wont even use heart of iron for cookie cutter build.
0
Paragons aren't the problem. Lack of choices or other infinite paths is. It's not about top player vs average player paragons disproportion.
You can do many things to extend that time when u can do more stuff that just paragon farming like:
- infinite gem levels just limited by amount of gems you have (that would also fix problem with having lots of useless gems), with some random factor (like chance to add some small additional stat to gem when created)
- more variations on ancient system (like chance to roll a socket on ancient item), similar to wow
- tweaks to paragon system, removal/increase of limits for all tabs (with diminishing returns for points distribution)
0
Yes paragon is an infinite progression, but you have no choices where to put those points, its just ur main stat, and that is very boring way to progress imho. Same with new upgrades - they will be fun for a short period of time till you max it out and thats all.
I always though that this game is about hunting items, not gaining paragons. Paragons as a side progression are nice, but its problematic when it becomes the only way to go. 2 years ago hitting that 800 paragons and gearing fully wasnt that easy for casual player like me, now getting full ancient set and hitting 800 paragons is in range for anyone, and only thing that left is grinding more main stat from paragons.
Don't get me wrong, im thankfull that they are doing those changes to the game, im just voicing my opinion about lacking some choices at late game porgression.