From what I've seen Rolands>>>>> Any build using Akkhans.
Partly because Akkhan's consists almost entirely of defensive bonuses. Mostly because new roland's is new. Akkhan's will probably see some tweaks eventually, though it is very much designed as support set.
Not gunna lie, I was excited about the new pants looks for the wizard. Now they retracted it and gave her full pants like the guy. Does blizzard not realize that the feminists who complain about the sexy outfits aren't the ones playing and purchasing their games? Bring the sexy looks back!
Proof? Plenty of women play games, even Diablo.
Yes, they gave a woman character pants just like a guy. How dare they! Surely, female characters' first priority is sexiness.
Well it isn't actually sexist sexiness unless every piece of armor is equally scanty. Blizz has done a great job getting a comparatively large number of female looks into the game (given the genre and the artstyle generally used in the genre) as well as a varierty of armor types both modest and not.
I personally don;t care eitehr way because I'm just gonna artswap or make invisible anything tht doesn't give me the look I want. Which is generally "functional but interesting".
It was so good that the 6 piece 100% IAS was scrapped pre nerf for 40% fire damage/30% RCR on a chest that doesn't allow anywhere near the defensive stat options in the highest gr run the set has seen to date. Also, Rolands PTR still does less dmg than an M6 dh live so good luck with group options if people are serous about progression.
Dude you love to make claims having limited/no experience with the set at higher levels to speak of. Which is fine, its your game and your entitled to your opinions. I don't even care about the set enough to argue any further, certainly not with someone who thinks that sweep/bash is the best option when pure bash is/was crushing sweep/bash for damage and grift progression solo.
Should the set see both sweep and bash on the bar with the option to run either skill stand alone for farming/progression? Yes. Is that the case? Fuck no.
1) Pre nerf roland's had permanent damage immunity anyway, so of course Cindercoat on pure bash with ridiculously OP drakon's
2) I never claimed it would be competitive with DH. Simply that the AS bonus is not in any way worthless in settings that don't involve T6.
2b) Even in the case that it's not competitive with DH it's still the second highest damaging support class depending on how you classify "support" barb (permanent uptime judgement, permanent uptime AS boost, permanent uptime damage taken debuff, multiple chained CCs don't understimate trip attack with 2+ attacks per second and two supporting CC effects)
3) I like sweep bash. I did not say it's the best option, simply that IMO it has the most enjoyable mechanics.
So yah in high GR's I treat Roland's like what it is: support class with damage.
I obviously happen to have a looser interpretation of viable or acceptable both for playability and for progression. Most likely due to the fact that in my honest opinion the GRift leaderboard is nothing more than an excercise in e-peenery as the actual skill required to progress through the ranks is just about nonexistent. Luck. Time played. Progress.
Maybe in T6 when you don't have to move for shit : )
Depends on if you have sweep attack to keep the buff up since (strangely enough) being able to deal your damage in half the time results in double DPS. Whether you do that damage in 1 attack every few seconds or by standing like a statue. Hell even if you have to move all the time you're going to be doing double DPS for the majority of the fight if you use sweep (or just shield bash from target to target).
Honestly saying that it's only useful in T6 is like saying Iron Skin is only useful in T6. Sure having damage reduction (or attack speed) gets "less" useful as enemies get closer to one shotting (forcing movement) but the fact that you have it is always going to benefit you. Especially in those "perfect" situations where hey look you don't have to move.
Hell in any situation in which you perform more than one attack (most no matter the rift level) you're going to AT LEAST benefit from shorter animations increasing mobility and therefore survival rate.
Fun fact: More AS means more juking.
Edit: Also groups have CC. CC means you don't have to move as much. Means benefit of As is higher. So yah. T6 is not the only place that the As is relevant. Not even close.
Glowpipe or crackpipe (jk)? Jade is the most dynamic class in game. Other builds are simply cast 5 generators, cast 3 spenders, repeat.
If we're going to absurdly simplify every other class in the game then Jade is drop DoTs cast Harvest (Spender, Spender, Spender, Detonation) spam defense skill.
In execution exactly the same as all your absurdly oversimplified other builds.
I'm sure there is something i am missing with this set, but how does the atk speed effect shield bash? Wouldnt it be better to use cinder coat, magefist and Andariel's Visage to boost fire dmg and a RORG to maintain 4 set?
Like i said im sure there is something i dont understand or i am missing as to why the atk speed on the set unless it is for the sweep attack. Please help me with any info you may have to help clear up my misunderstanding.
Thanks for your time and have a good day.
It serves only one purpose, and that is to help reset the cool downs affected by the set that much faster. When you use the set without the 6p bonus you really notice the downtime on IS/Law/Sglare.
I don't have specific answers since a I had relatively limited testing chance. I'm just relaying the trends I saw and what the raw math suggests.
I would imagine for a Fire Bash build top end weapons would be relegated to Ancient Furnace and Maximus (depending on relative speed returns). CDR may peak around 35%, though I'm not sure what the consensus is on CDR contribution to builds, it will definitely depend on skill loadout to some extent. CDR will definitely outperform AS (no surprise) and may outperform CHC, once again depending on exact builds. I haven't found a real consensus on which skills and which runes, partly because the nerf hurt so much and partly because we don't have proper sweep support.
I'd say CDR > CHC on rings but crit is king on amulets and gloves.
I personally have a solid Flense so I stuck to Sweep-Bash and used physical because holy hell pound so I didn;t experiment much with Cindercoat or Maximus. Hence not having a solid idea on what such a build will optimize to.
Edit: Minor provision when using judgement CHC is going to underperform relative to CDR in a LOT of cases. 20% crit chance bonus absolutely guts the CHC gear curve.
i would make a suggestion of using a focus + restrain for damage + 4pc rolands and using other survival type gear such as either capt's/aughilds/cindercoat/andy/leoric/w-e
other options are to use the new zodiac ring + SOJ? i think those options will be viable as well if you want to go for a perma wrath build using provoke + AC+all the other defensive skills to get in and out of trouble... so far i see we got the monk 4 pc bonus for swk transfered over ^^
the 6 pc still seems REALLY lack luster ( especially when we will be out of resources ) we could also be possibly be low on toughness esp since we will not have perma AC and we will have to be very careful in our playstyle
Permanent Iron Skin provides superior DR to permanent AC (with room for error depending on gear value), the primary loss in defense is no longer having a 20s CD revive. Whether or not having that revive should be a thing (that's literally 90% of the power in Akkhan's) is an entirely separate subject. In effect Roland's will perform superior defensive up until the point where Akkhan's revive becomes the majority of a crusader's defenses, however Roland's has something like 5x the damage output of Akkhan making it a relatively viable DPS member of a group (in an ideal world) so that's a reasonable trade. Additionally properly optimized Roland's doesn't have resource starvation, but neither do you have an absolute overabundance. It plays closer to a high-low game than other builds. I did some significant testing on PTR w/ Sweep-Bash and a bevy of resource generating abilities and the result was more or less unlimited resources. Keep in mind that those abilities consisted mostly of Unstoppable Force and Shield Glare.
That 6P bonus with resource optimization is a terrifying amount of damage output (which crusader desperately needs if it is to have a viable dedicated DPS spec). Keep in mind that you could be running near permanent uptime on CC with shield glare (either as a generator or as a damage amp) in conjunction with permanent uptime on Iron Skin. I find I like both Steel Skin and Flash. Remember that the 2p is not an excuse to ignore CDR on your gear as the flat reductions in CD on skills become better as your CDR gets higher.
Testing with Bastions revealed that it's less than ideal when you're not running an explicit generator.For pure bash builds it would certainly be a solid option but the constant need to switch between attacks is a bit of a hassle (compared to a spec where generator and spender are not tied to attack animations). Honestly depending on what exactly performs best for the build (Sweeper, Basher, Sweep-Bash please Blizz I want the set to be all about the combination). Zodiac+SoJ or even the use of a powerful legendary in the helm or chest (over Zodiac I'd think) will outperform Bastions in a build that does not utilize a generator. Keep in mind that a Bash build has a significant disadvantage in AoE over having sweep attack (even Shield Bash's best AoE is relatively small compared to sweep), I haven't done enough testing for non-sweep builds as I had poor luck in terms of ancient weapon drops while I was on the PTR.
if they want us to use sweep for aoe and shield for single just sucks the skills are on the same 3 pieces of gear. Hard to try and max skill dmg of both that way.
Ideally you'll be maximizing whichever one is bottlenecking clearspeed. Or splitting the difference I suppose. Hard decisions are supposed to be hard.
the one ptr video i seen guy was only running shield bash, so if that is the case it makes things easy. but this is getting off topic. was more wondering how the atk speed buffs anything for shield bash
Well like I said above, it'l let you gain a ton more resource with a generator. You also have to take into account the 2 piece bonus of reducing your defensive skills and your law by a second with each attack of SB and SA. That alone should justify getting the 6p bonus for the attack speed, since you can then have almost permanent uptime on your law and iron skin, as well as consecration and judge.
What specifically about consecrate makes it your preference over Shield Glare?
if they want us to use sweep for aoe and shield for single just sucks the skills are on the same 3 pieces of gear. Hard to try and max skill dmg of both that way.
Ideally you'll be maximizing whichever one is bottlenecking clearspeed. Or splitting the difference I suppose. Hard decisions are supposed to be hard.
I got more Gifts on Saturday live (2) than I did in a week of PTR (0).
Honestly I don't see a reason to sell the thing from any ingame merchants. Does it affect GR progression? Yah. Is it too hard to get? By the time you have a weapon that can do the GRs you need a gift for you'll have found your gift.
any bs about more legs or more goblins after rg is flawed. pretty much as flawed as loot tables and loot servers. stop with this nonsense.
I snipped everything else because... irrelevant.
But there are loot tables. There's gear available only from caches, from torment difficulties. Different classes have different droprates of various legendaries. Those are definitive examples of loot tables.
0
Partly because Akkhan's consists almost entirely of defensive bonuses. Mostly because new roland's is new. Akkhan's will probably see some tweaks eventually, though it is very much designed as support set.
0
Well it isn't actually sexist sexiness unless every piece of armor is equally scanty. Blizz has done a great job getting a comparatively large number of female looks into the game (given the genre and the artstyle generally used in the genre) as well as a varierty of armor types both modest and not.
I personally don;t care eitehr way because I'm just gonna artswap or make invisible anything tht doesn't give me the look I want. Which is generally "functional but interesting".
0
"Technically". As long as the items are included in the patches (I don't know if tehy are, do not have console versions)
0
[quote=raziael1;/members/203386-raziael1]
It was so good that the 6 piece 100% IAS was scrapped pre nerf for 40% fire damage/30% RCR on a chest that doesn't allow anywhere near the defensive stat options in the highest gr run the set has seen to date. Also, Rolands PTR still does less dmg than an M6 dh live so good luck with group options if people are serous about progression.
Dude you love to make claims having limited/no experience with the set at higher levels to speak of. Which is fine, its your game and your entitled to your opinions. I don't even care about the set enough to argue any further, certainly not with someone who thinks that sweep/bash is the best option when pure bash is/was crushing sweep/bash for damage and grift progression solo.
Should the set see both sweep and bash on the bar with the option to run either skill stand alone for farming/progression? Yes. Is that the case? Fuck no.
1) Pre nerf roland's had permanent damage immunity anyway, so of course Cindercoat on pure bash with ridiculously OP drakon's
2) I never claimed it would be competitive with DH. Simply that the AS bonus is not in any way worthless in settings that don't involve T6.
2b) Even in the case that it's not competitive with DH it's still the second highest damaging support class depending on how you classify "support" barb (permanent uptime judgement, permanent uptime AS boost, permanent uptime damage taken debuff, multiple chained CCs don't understimate trip attack with 2+ attacks per second and two supporting CC effects)
3) I like sweep bash. I did not say it's the best option, simply that IMO it has the most enjoyable mechanics.
So yah in high GR's I treat Roland's like what it is: support class with damage.
I obviously happen to have a looser interpretation of viable or acceptable both for playability and for progression. Most likely due to the fact that in my honest opinion the GRift leaderboard is nothing more than an excercise in e-peenery as the actual skill required to progress through the ranks is just about nonexistent. Luck. Time played. Progress.
0
Depends on if you have sweep attack to keep the buff up since (strangely enough) being able to deal your damage in half the time results in double DPS. Whether you do that damage in 1 attack every few seconds or by standing like a statue. Hell even if you have to move all the time you're going to be doing double DPS for the majority of the fight if you use sweep (or just shield bash from target to target).
Honestly saying that it's only useful in T6 is like saying Iron Skin is only useful in T6. Sure having damage reduction (or attack speed) gets "less" useful as enemies get closer to one shotting (forcing movement) but the fact that you have it is always going to benefit you. Especially in those "perfect" situations where hey look you don't have to move.
Hell in any situation in which you perform more than one attack (most no matter the rift level) you're going to AT LEAST benefit from shorter animations increasing mobility and therefore survival rate.
Fun fact: More AS means more juking.
Edit: Also groups have CC. CC means you don't have to move as much. Means benefit of As is higher. So yah. T6 is not the only place that the As is relevant. Not even close.
0
If we're going to absurdly simplify every other class in the game then Jade is drop DoTs cast Harvest (Spender, Spender, Spender, Detonation) spam defense skill.
In execution exactly the same as all your absurdly oversimplified other builds.
0
Well that and double DPS during fights.
0
Shield bash damage is Listed w% + (Shield% * block %)
So if you go form 10% to 30% block you go from 730% to 790% wDamage which is an 8% damage increase.
0
I don't have specific answers since a I had relatively limited testing chance. I'm just relaying the trends I saw and what the raw math suggests.
I would imagine for a Fire Bash build top end weapons would be relegated to Ancient Furnace and Maximus (depending on relative speed returns). CDR may peak around 35%, though I'm not sure what the consensus is on CDR contribution to builds, it will definitely depend on skill loadout to some extent. CDR will definitely outperform AS (no surprise) and may outperform CHC, once again depending on exact builds. I haven't found a real consensus on which skills and which runes, partly because the nerf hurt so much and partly because we don't have proper sweep support.
I'd say CDR > CHC on rings but crit is king on amulets and gloves.
I personally have a solid Flense so I stuck to Sweep-Bash and used physical because holy hell pound so I didn;t experiment much with Cindercoat or Maximus. Hence not having a solid idea on what such a build will optimize to.
Edit: Minor provision when using judgement CHC is going to underperform relative to CDR in a LOT of cases. 20% crit chance bonus absolutely guts the CHC gear curve.
0
Permanent Iron Skin provides superior DR to permanent AC (with room for error depending on gear value), the primary loss in defense is no longer having a 20s CD revive. Whether or not having that revive should be a thing (that's literally 90% of the power in Akkhan's) is an entirely separate subject. In effect Roland's will perform superior defensive up until the point where Akkhan's revive becomes the majority of a crusader's defenses, however Roland's has something like 5x the damage output of Akkhan making it a relatively viable DPS member of a group (in an ideal world) so that's a reasonable trade. Additionally properly optimized Roland's doesn't have resource starvation, but neither do you have an absolute overabundance. It plays closer to a high-low game than other builds. I did some significant testing on PTR w/ Sweep-Bash and a bevy of resource generating abilities and the result was more or less unlimited resources. Keep in mind that those abilities consisted mostly of Unstoppable Force and Shield Glare.
That 6P bonus with resource optimization is a terrifying amount of damage output (which crusader desperately needs if it is to have a viable dedicated DPS spec). Keep in mind that you could be running near permanent uptime on CC with shield glare (either as a generator or as a damage amp) in conjunction with permanent uptime on Iron Skin. I find I like both Steel Skin and Flash. Remember that the 2p is not an excuse to ignore CDR on your gear as the flat reductions in CD on skills become better as your CDR gets higher.
Testing with Bastions revealed that it's less than ideal when you're not running an explicit generator.For pure bash builds it would certainly be a solid option but the constant need to switch between attacks is a bit of a hassle (compared to a spec where generator and spender are not tied to attack animations). Honestly depending on what exactly performs best for the build (Sweeper, Basher, Sweep-Bash please Blizz I want the set to be all about the combination). Zodiac+SoJ or even the use of a powerful legendary in the helm or chest (over Zodiac I'd think) will outperform Bastions in a build that does not utilize a generator. Keep in mind that a Bash build has a significant disadvantage in AoE over having sweep attack (even Shield Bash's best AoE is relatively small compared to sweep), I haven't done enough testing for non-sweep builds as I had poor luck in terms of ancient weapon drops while I was on the PTR.
0
Never gonna happen.
0
What specifically about consecrate makes it your preference over Shield Glare?
0
Ideally you'll be maximizing whichever one is bottlenecking clearspeed. Or splitting the difference I suppose. Hard decisions are supposed to be hard.
0
I got more Gifts on Saturday live (2) than I did in a week of PTR (0).
Honestly I don't see a reason to sell the thing from any ingame merchants. Does it affect GR progression? Yah. Is it too hard to get? By the time you have a weapon that can do the GRs you need a gift for you'll have found your gift.
0
I snipped everything else because... irrelevant.
But there are loot tables. There's gear available only from caches, from torment difficulties. Different classes have different droprates of various legendaries. Those are definitive examples of loot tables.