That's why I hope we're here on the forums in such a thread; to discuss, and hopefully be noticed, on how this game can bring value to it's players. Which helps everyone out. The players enjoy the game, and also support Blizzard and gives them a solid understanding of what their fans want in future titles.
As for PoE, they did a LOT of things right. Like you said, the currency system is great. It is thought out, not complicated, and engaging. Along with the currency system, is the crafting system which is incredible. Converting specific currencies into crafting actions is genius; it throws out the middle man (gold) and lets you go ham on how you want to craft almost any item in the game, from damage types, number of sockets, type of sockets, stats... anything. It makes every item in the game have value, even common loot because with the right currency item and right piece of equipment, you could roll a chance for a specific legendary. (Example: I remember trying to find a specific legendary item to help boost my lightning witches damage. I found out that if I found very specific pair of common gloves, I could use an orb of chance for a chance to convert it into the exact legendary I needed.) An item I felt was mundane became very important to me and I found myself not just digging through piles of loot (actually sitting there and reading through piles of loot) but finding which areas were more likely to drop the said item. It felt good hunting for it and even better after I got it.
I agree with your post when it comes to Diablo 3. This game doesn't have an end-game that is even remotely different from the mid-game.
Your attitude, however, is something I have a problem with. I might be wrong, but I got the impression that you don't think this game needs an end-game (and, after seeing your edit, I was correct). Every game needs an end-game. Not having an end-game is the #1 problem I see in Diablo 3. Farming is extremely boring and the endless-farming style of this game is why only the "hardcore" remain outside of major patches.
Endless farming isn't fun. There needs to be an objective outside of "get better gear to do more of the same boring stuff."
This ^. Pretty much. Having objectives to work towards parallel to farming can make a huge difference in replay-ability and make the game not stale. Having different builds is interesting because you can approach each objective differently so it becomes fresh even when you've completed it before. The way the current game is, if you do not have a certain setup, you cannot compete at the highest levels of play because the people at the highest levels of play have optimized each class to do said highest levels of play. Because of this, we know exactly what we need to do to get there. Having every build viable for end game is also not healthy because you then make gear meaningless because why strive for something exceptional when anything will do? By implementing an end game that is not randomly generated dungeons, people can accomplish set goals without falling off (provided they actually have good builds.) Just my thought on it.
Main diffference endgame wise between D2 and D3 is that D2 was way more openly designed. You didnt have all those limitations that they put in D3. This gave the community the possibility to come up with their own endgame.
Just one example i will list here is you fill a game with naked lvl 1 HC chars, all turn on PVP, and the first guy to beat act 1 (or the last one living ) wins the "race". D2 allowed for such games cause it was not restrictive.
Look at how much fun such an event would be in D3. Act 1 has almost no map randomisation, so the race would be much less open. You can't pvp outside of this boring pvp-arena, so that aspect would not work either. What's left? Leveling against the clock in narrow, static tunnels. That's how blizzard wants you to play the game, and that's the ONLY way you can play this game.
Stuff like that would be great. It's been said thousands of times, but trading was a hook I enjoyed. All the restrictions make you feel like you are supposed to go down a certain path for success but you are left in an open world with no direction. Feels very counter intuitive.
aRPG should not have end-game. This is not mmorpg.
What? Diablo 2 had an end game. It was act 5 on hell difficulty followed by ubers and Diablo clone. You can always seek perfection and keep playing your character, but there was indeed an end game.
Diablo 3 Act V Torment 6, after that you can do Ubers (one of them is a diablo clone) so I fail to see your logic. D3 has everything you see as "end-game" that D2 had and you still ask for end-game content. Please make up your mind about what you want.
You're right. I talked to my friend about it who was a hardcore d2 fan and he said, "what you're missing is a structure to the game." Basically he is saying that d2 had a structure, where if you know what you want, there was a best place to farm said items where as in d3, aside from bounty runs, items have the same drop rate everywhere so you just do things in hopes for the next big drop. You're running around like a chicken with your head cut off.
Yeah I came to this conclusion myself a few times, but it is a double edged sword:
If you know where to get what you want and you can farm this specific item, You'll spend your days farming exactly that one part until you get what you want. I never really played D2 for longer than nightmare Act..3 I think and when I hear from a friend that he misses the Baal runs, Ugh, sorry but that sounds so borring, I mean, really? How can it be fun killing the same boss countless times in hopes to get the same item over and over again, while hoping that it would be a little bit better than last time?
In D3 you can't farm specific items, with the exception of the Cache bounties, so you can do whatever you think is most fun, because the chances that you get the item you want won't change with the things you do. That gives you a freedom that D2 never had, and I think it's this freedom that many old "hardcore D2" players find so "boring". They are used to get told what they have to do in order to get what they want. But now that they can do whatever they want, they don't know what to do.
I agree completely. This is actually a tough point to follow so if I can't promise I'll articulate it well (also I've been drinking all night): I feel that having a completely opened ended world is bad for the health of the game because it encourages indifference. Through indifference comes boredom because your decisions, in the long run are less valuable from a gameplay stand point because you will eventually progress (theoretically) provided you just play the game. It feels like there is a minimal separation between casual players and people that try to master the game, because the two beneficiary statistics in favor for any player are luck and time which both accomplish whenever they log on. While this doesn't pull from the idea of a standard RPG, it detracts from people that want to gain something through gameplay outside of "style." I guess that's really it when I say I'm looking for an end game. "Increasing monster statistics" doesn't feel like end game for me; mechanics do. Because I can't find a challenge that can't be solved with "wait for x piece of gear to drop" so you can, I feel unsatisfied.
There is no real solution to this problem aside from finding another game that gives me what I'm craving, but it hurts because Diablo 3 does SO much right that it's hard to put it behind me, mainly because I'm selfish and I want to find ways to play it for the next decade like my friends and I did for D2.
aRPG should not have end-game. This is not mmorpg.
What? Diablo 2 had an end game. It was act 5 on hell difficulty followed by ubers and Diablo clone. You can always seek perfection and keep playing your character, but there was indeed an end game.
Diablo 3 Act V Torment 6, after that you can do Ubers (one of them is a diablo clone) so I fail to see your logic. D3 has everything you see as "end-game" that D2 had and you still ask for end-game content. Please make up your mind about what you want.
You're right. I talked to my friend about it who was a hardcore d2 fan and he said, "what you're missing is a structure to the game." Basically he is saying that d2 had a structure, where if you know what you want, there was a best place to farm said items where as in d3, aside from bounty runs, items have the same drop rate everywhere so you just do things in hopes for the next big drop. You're running around like a chicken with your head cut off.
Edit - If you meant engima, I thought about it but then realized that a lot of classes have great mobility with their skills and any lack of mobility is heavily emphasized with their kit:
Barbarian has rending charge and leap. Rending lets barbs move from crowd to crowd while leap is free roaming and able to scale height but it is not reset-able (as far as I know. I know there is an item that lets you get 2 casts out of it though.)
Crusader has the steed charge. Lots of utility, from dragging enemies, healing, knock away, etc.
Monk has dashing strike. Teleport style skill, fast, no resource but not spammable.
Witch doctor has spirit walk, demon hunter has vault and smoke screen. Each with their own purpose that fits in line with the class.
Wizard has teleport which allows him/her to go through walls.
Since each class has a defined style of mobility, it feels like giving all classes access to another mobility skill would just clutter the game with unnecessary skills instead of spending time modifying those abilities already available to them that thematically define who they are.
go play on hardcore, that feeling of challenge will come back pretty fast
Oh don't get me wrong. This game is challenging, sometimes insanely punishing. The jump from T5 to T6 is frustrating for me at my skill level.
Maybe I'll try to go beat the story mode on T6.
aRPG should not have end-game. This is not mmorpg.
What? Diablo 2 had an end game. It was act 5 on hell difficulty followed by ubers and Diablo clone. You can always seek perfection and keep playing your character, but there was indeed an end game.
I've actually been curious about this for a while; do you all feel like Diablo 3 has an actual end game right now? Currently I feel like I'm just going to the casino to get loot. When I get enough good loot, I pack up, move to a high rollin' casino (torment II-VI) and try again. Maybe some don't feel the same way as I do, but an end game to me has always been the hardest challenge with precise detail on what you'll be facing.
"That last dungeon of that game, man it was hard. I had to go back and farm to even put up a fight."
"The final boss is just cruel. We party wiped like 5 times before we beat it."
No offense, but it's pretty obvious why your post got deleted. You offer no insight as to how they can overcome their issues and are basically just complaining.
^ This. No offense OP, but saying there is a problem with the game helps no one. Start creating threads on how the game can be pushed in the right direction with complete and concrete ideas. I'd love to read what the community thinks and I'll probably join in myself.
I'd actually look forward to finding the speed pylon with War Traveler's. The Infinity that boosts lightning resist and lightning damage may be a bit... well, I'd have no problem trying out lightning gear for a Crusader with that XD Overall they sound like nice additions.
[pushes glasses back up bridge of nose]
The set fist items you have listed all have different Set names and the corresponding weapons do not match for some of them.
Oh thank you for the catch! I'll go edit that.
Edit - It looks right. are you talking about the pugilist specifically?
Doing a little bit of research goes a long way my friend, but like I said earlier you can add more to list if you wanted to.
I agree, it's just when I was doing research I found too many different opinions. I wanted to address Demon Hunter because I was familiar with it and the research suggested two opposing ideas: one was that the maurder's set was too over powered while the other claimed that it was the only way for demon hunter to survive, so I have no idea which is justified and I have to take the information as subjective. This creates a predicament where I can't address the issue directly as I only have videos and hearsay to these kind of issues. These problems and arguments also spread across all classes equally so it makes it hard to research.
Edit - I was thinking about the Harlequin Crest and had an idea of how to emphasize loot drop and came up with a few ideas. I'll need some feedback:
1% chance when a marquise gem drops that a legendary item will drop instead.
When equipment drops (not just legendaries), it will have a 20.0-30.0% chance to drop an item that corresponds to any unequipped slots on your character.
The reasoning behind the second idea was the nature of the item. It's a jester hood, the shako. It has pay out but at the cost of trolling you. You'll have to unequip slots, which makes higher play near impossible. You're using it just to farm but it'll feel like it's trolling you after you've gotten 40 yellow shoulders and no vile wards. XD
As far as I remember only 10 % of your magic find counts towards legendaries meaning 50 % magic find will grant you a total of 5 % increased chance on legendaries. - which in my opinon is quite weak^^ Especially considering that Nagel ring will give you the same 50 % as a secondary stat
I didn't realize they had put so many hidden modifiers into magic find. Not sure why they strayed from how Diablo 2 had their magic find system since it seemed to work so well.
Quote from Masterjun:
" Granted that not all the legendaries or sets that are created along the way until the next expansion are going to be useful."
Couldn't agree with you more and plan to target Witch Doctor and Wizard for my next set of items, almost exclusively. I'm seriously annoyed that there is all of 1 legendary witch doctor and wizard belt. There are a handful of might belts and the other belts seem to fit really well with the other classes but magic based classes feel very mundane when their magic items are just stat enhancers.
Now for an idea of mine. I personally think it'd be interesting to have a legendary or two that interacts with potions.
Maybe a legendary affix like 'Critical Hits have a chance to reduce the cooldown of potion by X second(s)'
'Using a Potion creates a window of opportunity, increasing damage/CDR or -RCR for X seconds (pick one, not all.)
'Health Globes also reduce the cooldown of your potion skill by 2-4 seconds' OR
'Health Globes can overheal you, granting a temporary shield equal to 10% of your maximum health. While the shield holds, you deal X% additional damage' or have X increased resistances. Possibly two items? Maybe a set ring/amulet, one that grants damage, one for toughness- then add a 2piece for it. What would that be? No clue.
Could call the first one something cheesy like '____ of Eternal Thirst'
Sorta just spitballin' here. I'm kinda sleepy and just coming up with these at random (outside of the first potion one). But I love a lot of your ideas!
I love the legendary potion as part of a set idea! I may implement that with your permission.
-Sorry for the double post. I just learned how to multi-quote.
From what I can see this is biased towards only barbs and Monks and almost nothing for DH/WD/Cru/ or the Wizard for that matter
Whoa, hold up. I mentioned this a couple posts under the main. To emphasize more though; it would be prudent of me to actually play classes in the new season before I actually go and start theory crafting items for them. I've only had time for monk and barb, so my knowledge of these classes is substantially greater than the the rest and I feel more qualified to make stuff that has a place in their repertoire. That's far from being biased and I do want to make items for the other classes.
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As for PoE, they did a LOT of things right. Like you said, the currency system is great. It is thought out, not complicated, and engaging. Along with the currency system, is the crafting system which is incredible. Converting specific currencies into crafting actions is genius; it throws out the middle man (gold) and lets you go ham on how you want to craft almost any item in the game, from damage types, number of sockets, type of sockets, stats... anything. It makes every item in the game have value, even common loot because with the right currency item and right piece of equipment, you could roll a chance for a specific legendary. (Example: I remember trying to find a specific legendary item to help boost my lightning witches damage. I found out that if I found very specific pair of common gloves, I could use an orb of chance for a chance to convert it into the exact legendary I needed.) An item I felt was mundane became very important to me and I found myself not just digging through piles of loot (actually sitting there and reading through piles of loot) but finding which areas were more likely to drop the said item. It felt good hunting for it and even better after I got it.
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There is no real solution to this problem aside from finding another game that gives me what I'm craving, but it hurts because Diablo 3 does SO much right that it's hard to put it behind me, mainly because I'm selfish and I want to find ways to play it for the next decade like my friends and I did for D2.
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Edit - If you meant engima, I thought about it but then realized that a lot of classes have great mobility with their skills and any lack of mobility is heavily emphasized with their kit:
Barbarian has rending charge and leap. Rending lets barbs move from crowd to crowd while leap is free roaming and able to scale height but it is not reset-able (as far as I know. I know there is an item that lets you get 2 casts out of it though.)
Crusader has the steed charge. Lots of utility, from dragging enemies, healing, knock away, etc.
Monk has dashing strike. Teleport style skill, fast, no resource but not spammable.
Witch doctor has spirit walk, demon hunter has vault and smoke screen. Each with their own purpose that fits in line with the class.
Wizard has teleport which allows him/her to go through walls.
Since each class has a defined style of mobility, it feels like giving all classes access to another mobility skill would just clutter the game with unnecessary skills instead of spending time modifying those abilities already available to them that thematically define who they are.
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Maybe I'll try to go beat the story mode on T6.
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"That last dungeon of that game, man it was hard. I had to go back and farm to even put up a fight."
"The final boss is just cruel. We party wiped like 5 times before we beat it."
I miss that feeling. T-T
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Edit - It looks right. are you talking about the pugilist specifically?
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Edit - I was thinking about the Harlequin Crest and had an idea of how to emphasize loot drop and came up with a few ideas. I'll need some feedback:
- 1% chance when a marquise gem drops that a legendary item will drop instead.
- When equipment drops (not just legendaries), it will have a 20.0-30.0% chance to drop an item that corresponds to any unequipped slots on your character.
The reasoning behind the second idea was the nature of the item. It's a jester hood, the shako. It has pay out but at the cost of trolling you. You'll have to unequip slots, which makes higher play near impossible. You're using it just to farm but it'll feel like it's trolling you after you've gotten 40 yellow shoulders and no vile wards. XD0
Quote from Masterjun:
" Granted that not all the legendaries or sets that are created along the way until the next expansion are going to be useful."
Couldn't agree with you more and plan to target Witch Doctor and Wizard for my next set of items, almost exclusively. I'm seriously annoyed that there is all of 1 legendary witch doctor and wizard belt. There are a handful of might belts and the other belts seem to fit really well with the other classes but magic based classes feel very mundane when their magic items are just stat enhancers.
I love the legendary potion as part of a set idea! I may implement that with your permission.
-Sorry for the double post. I just learned how to multi-quote.
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